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What If There Was Simply NO Beginning?

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posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 07:19 PM
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When it comes to the question "Where did time and space begin?" most people take one of two roads to answer that: religion or science. Christians believe that God created everything, while most skeptics believe it all started with the Big Bang. Personally, I don't see any logic in either of those explanations. I don't believe in the existence of gods, because it is simply an illogical idea. The Big Bang theory also raises questions, like "What was there before the Big Bang" because there has to be a time and place for every happening. Even the Bible says: "In the beginning, there was nothing", yet this makes no sense, because "nothing" is impossible.

I want to raise a rarely asked question to you: What if there was simply NO beginning? What if there was no real 'creation', and the universe (or multiverse, I should say) was simply there. There is no such thing as "before", and will be no such thing as "after". No beginning, no end -- simple as that. I do understand that, according to our earthly logic, that there's a beginning and end to everything, but how can we know that for sure? We no so little about beyond our planets, so who could we say that for certain?

Try not to let your mind ask questions (as a grown human normally brain would), and try to agree to simplicity.




posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by nicolee123nd
When it comes to the question "Where did time and space begin?" most people take one of two roads to answer that: religion or science. Christians believe that God created everything, while most skeptics believe it all started with the Big Bang. Personally, I don't see any logic in either of those explanations. I don't believe in the existence of gods, because it is simply an illogical idea. The Big Bang theory also raises questions, like "What was there before the Big Bang" because there has to be a time and place for every happening. Even the Bible says: "In the beginning, there was nothing", yet this makes no sense, because "nothing" is impossible.

I want to raise a rarely asked question to you: What if there was simply NO beginning? What if there was no real 'creation', and the universe (or multiverse, I should say) was simply there. There is no such thing as "before", and will be no such thing as "after". No beginning, no end -- simple as that. I do understand that, according to our earthly logic, that there's a beginning and end to everything, but how can we know that for sure? We no so little about beyond our planets, so who could we say that for certain?

Try not to let your mind ask questions (as a grown human normally brain would), and try to agree to simplicity.


Great question...none of us were there "in the beginning"...so all we know is what we are told how everything began.

Many indigenous peoples believe that everything and everyone just "always" has been. That too is a way to look at it.

Just gives us more to marvel over....if everything we think we know, just was and always has been, eh?
edit on 17-12-2010 by Holly N.R.A. because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 07:27 PM
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I've always agreed with you. Its probably the first thing I understood. Ouroboros.



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 07:37 PM
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That is something I have been considering. I find it very hard to consider a time where there is no time, or a boundary to this space. Maybe it is just this puny head, but infinity could actually be a reality. Find it as good as many other theories out there trying to comprehend it all.



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 07:43 PM
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I great idea to ponder.

I think that an equal and related question is, if there was no beginning, is there an end?

This whole 2012 thing with all of the predictions, movies,books- what if they are just imagination.

Something cannot end if it never began.



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by nicolee123nd
"nothing" is impossible.




This is exactly why some form of higher power must indeed exist or must have at one point existed. Whether or not it was christian god though is up for debate. Here is my reasoning: even if the universe was simply just here all along, no creation or big bang or anything, how did it get here? and where exactly is here? Are you suggesting that the chicken indeed came before the egg?



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 07:44 PM
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I am certain that you are going to get a lot of scientific answers from Members who are a whole lot smarter then I am. I have never really given much consideration to this question. As far as I can remember I have always believed in God. My beliefs might differ with mainstream religion , but I believe non-the less. My beliefs differ in the understanding that God's creation story in Genesis is often misunderstood. For instance I don't believe that God created the Heavens and Earth in 7(SEVEN) days. Why would it take him 7(SEVEN) days? He could have created it instantly. Seven, IMO, has a significance that has more to do with just days. But leaving God out of this. I just can't comprehend that anything has no beginning. It just seems to me that everything has to have a start somewhere. I have read the Big bang theory, and recognize that it is probably just as good as any other theory, if one doesn't believe in God. I suppose most theories leave a lot of questions , because once all those questions have been answered we go from theory to fact. I like the idea that there was no beginning then I do the "big bang" though.



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by nicolee123nd
I do understand that, according to our earthly logic, that there's a beginning and end to everything, but how can we know that for sure?


If what we call the Universe does end, it will just give way to something bigger, which is still the universe but on another scale. The big bang (I believe) has to have taken place within a much larger space for it to be able to exist. And I also believe that there are an infinite amount of these big bangs within this much much larger space. I think it keeps on repeating like that forever in all directions, like a 3D fractal. So no I don't think there was a beginning, and I don't believe in the end.



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 07:50 PM
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You probably created the universe.

So where do you begin, and when do you end? Can you see the yourself inside your mind?



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 07:53 PM
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reply to post by nicolee123nd
 


Our Universe IS one continual round, with no beginning and no end. What is, always has been, its a fact that matter can not be created nor destroyed, just from one universe/Plane/consciousness to another....Excellent post OP, its not what if? It's a fact



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 08:05 PM
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i sorta follow what onequestion is touching...

however, its my position that the physical universe only came about because all us
spiritual incarnations needed the added dimension.

consider that according to Bible theology, that Heaven was already a realm that many entities
existed in...their consciousness was already a reality in what we material people call nothingness


i am comfortable that god or the collective...all got together in a sort of telepathic mind meld
and said lets create a physical/material universe as another playground.


so---in a way... there was no beginning, because the Cosmos came into being because the
entities finally willed it into existance, but it was also in their minds for an eternity...

on the other hand, there was a beginning - in our mortal mindset - because the 'source'
initiatated the immediate building of the universe/cosmos as if it had a 'big-bang' beginning



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 08:06 PM
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reply to post by HexagonSun
 
Its something ive been thinking about deeply recently, which is hard for me because im a bit of a dumbo, but as humans our observation of the universe is determined by linear time, i think maybe, that time is just a 3d physical thing and we give it more importance than it deserves, STAY WITH ME, maybe there is no start middle, end, maybe these these concepts were given to us for a reason. Which makes me consider the fact that my conciousnous has always existed, i wish i could remember what happened before, im forty ish now, is a human life time enough time to remember? Ive been on this weird path of discovery since my early twenties, i dont feel much further along.



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 08:07 PM
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Forgive me if this sounds jumbled, but I think it would be best if I thought out loud here.

Infinity would be irrelevant in a timeless environment. This is because in a timeless environment there is no space. You can't move from one place to another, because that would require time, and let's say you did somehow... You would have already been there before you even decided it, therefore you never would have moved. Therefore infinity, something that implies movement, difference in space or imagination could not exist. Imagination couldn't exist because, imagination plays a series of events, like a movie in the mind of the observer. Observation could not exist. pretty much nothing in our universe could exist. A place so strange, the idea that it was always there suddenly makes sense because it is, it was, and it never will be, always... Although that is irrelevant also.

So in the beginning there was no beginning, and therefore no creator. After all, a creator would have had to create it, and that means that the creator would have been in need of time and space. Also, a creator at the beginning and nothing else is a pretty foolish idea, because something would have had to create the creator, unless the creator always was, and in that case there would be no time in the creator's universe and therefore the creator couldn't have completed an act of creation, because that would require time.

Does that mean our universe wasn't created. Not at all. I find it hard to believe we are the second universe anyway.



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by nicolee123nd
 


A bigger question would be:
WHAT IF THERE IS SIMPLY NO END?!



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 08:31 PM
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i suppose we have to admit we cant perceive it, my way is to remember infinity and we are a tiny bit in the middle.
edit on 17-12-2010 by nonetruegod because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 08:31 PM
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This is where the human mind short circuits we are programed to think of everything having a beginning. But what if time is in our imagination and time really is set in suspended animation. Suppose that time is in suspended animation and time is in a closed looped circle no beginning no end. For all practical purposes say time stands still but yet can be manipulated forward, backward, sideways and within. So if time can be manipulated it could be manipulated to have no beginning or no end. What if space travelers not only can travel at or above the speed of light and also could travel riding on a time closed loop circle like a time traveler. So folks one thing human beings have that is imagination so if you can imagine No Beginning and convince enough people that there is No Beginning then it becomes real within everyone's imagination. ^Y^
edit on 17-12-2010 by amari because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by nicolee123nd
 


Fascinating question, and one that's hard to get our minds around because we are constrained by the space-time universe that we reside in. I'd pose a follow-up question to this- what is the definition of beginning? Quantum mechanics findings are starting to question things I think most of us take for granted - cause and effect. If effect can precede cause, what does it even mean to have a beginning, or an end?



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 10:15 PM
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I believe the Universe is alive, that it grows and divides, becomes multiverses. Whatever the First Cause, be it God or the other side of a black hole, the process is ongoing. There was no one to see the original event, even God had to create a light. Logic dictates that if there was no mass in the past creation must have been built with material taken from the future or from a place we have yet to learn of. Perhaps one day MAN will attain the leading edge of the expanding Universe, maybe be able to discern the point of origin and the FORCE that created a place for us to exist.



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 10:25 PM
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This POV is actually correct. The linear time thing is a human construct that only serves to enslave. There is only middle.

We want to know what was at the beginning so we can know what will be at the end, the problem is we are in the middle and there is only middle - of consciousness that is. Sure there was a beginning of the solar system, in the same way there was a beginning to computers, but those things are simply in the middle of the entirety, and are only seen as a point in time relative to time. Beyond, there is no beginning or end, only what is and all things are "is" as there is no "was' and there is no "to be."

Sadly the truth doesn't sell soap or keep universities open.



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by crankyoldman
This POV is actually correct. The linear time thing is a human construct that only serves to enslave. There is only middle.

We want to know what was at the beginning so we can know what will be at the end, the problem is we are in the middle and there is only middle - of consciousness that is. Sure there was a beginning of the solar system, in the same way there was a beginning to computers, but those things are simply in the middle of the entirety, and are only seen as a point in time relative to time. Beyond, there is no beginning or end, only what is and all things are "is" as there is no "was' and there is no "to be."

Sadly the truth doesn't sell soap or keep universities open.


LoL...
gives me a giggle, cranky old man, thank you.....but upon further contemplation of the OP's proposed question and the comments made....it is more evidence that all is one.

We were created in the image of God as we are taught in most organized religions...pagen beliefs and spiritual beliefs hold that we are part of the nature in which we live. In other words, the universe and all within are reflections of one another. We are, to the best explanation, an atom within a cell within a body within a larger body, infinite. The universe is us and we are the universe...as was said...living, breathing, and reproducing entities. We would not exist without the other.

To understand the now (middle) one would have to let go of linear logic and be able to comprehend what it would be like to be everywhere at once. We would have to understand that there are no above, below, left, or right. There just is what is.

I feel that indigenous peoples understood this concept. They were not as technically advanced as we are but they were more spiritually in touch with themselves and in being so were able to understand the messages the ancestors left for them...either in signs or intuitively. Imagine with this line of thinking...we are immortal...each and everyone of us..we are infinity our selves....going on with out end.

A thought is, maybe over time humans have created "safeguards", such as linear thinking to "protect" themselves and to give substance and matter to that which they do not comprehend. There are, once again, infinite possibilities.

Something many may find interesting. Not long ago there was a movie called: The Fountain
If you have seen it, you will understand what I am getting at....if you have not seen it, I recommend this film highly as a learning tool that helps one understand what "life" in the now might be.



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