Relationships

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What is going on these days, couples can’t seem to get along or live in relative harmony together, why?

Humbly, I will attempt to present why relationships and marriage are subjected to so much disconnect these days. In the dynamics of our times, many people are choosing to end marriages and relationships, without much consideration. Also when I speak of “Relationships” I am referring to the union or bound, that is formed between two people.

Going forward we will cover and discuss ideals, ideal mates, realities, and commitments. I will also answer questioned posed from my standpoint, but I am looking forward to everyone’s personal wittiness, wisdom and input.

For the record, I am not trying to undermine anyone’s relationship, marriage, or beliefs, but just the opposite, this author’s objective is to better understand why we choose our spouses, companions or life partners. Together we will look at relationships, commitments and marriages from the outside in, and attempt to separate dogmas, cultural practices, ideals, and then see why we feel the need to be with another person or separate from them.

Relationships and marriage today seem to end many times for obvious reasons, small reasons, or unknown reasons, but there are those rare few that live symbiotically with their partner. In today’s society we can agree it takes two to start a marriage or relationship, but only one may end it, now please do not look at this statement as good or bad, but just an observation.

Since this is obviously a passionate topic I ask that we respect others opinions, wisdom and life experiences on this thread and stay on topic.

“Nobody is perfect until you fall in love with them.”

A thought provoking quote from the internet, but this quote holds so much truth.

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We as people tend to hold an ideal person in our minds eye, whether they exist or not is completely a different story. The ideal person is just that, “Ideal” or perfect in every way, it has taken us years to create this ideal person in our minds, then one day, across a crowded room, we spot that someone that resonates with our ideals, and we immediately place those ideals, on this new person. How we create this ideal person, throughout our lives, is based on cultural, educational, media, movies, TV, religious, financial, physical, emotional inputs.

So what does our ideal mate look like or act like?

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In walks the new person, and it’s love at first sight. Most likely many of our physical ideals about this new person resonates with what we are looking for because, let’s face it, physical aspects attract, that is a proven thing, well unless we are drunk. Once past the physical aspects of this person, we, meaning this new person and ourselves, both start to project an image of what is expected of each other’s ideals, then idealistic views and rituals flow.

Instead of being ourselves, we anticipate and sense what the other persons ideals maybe, so the idealistic union starts to take shape, love and endorphins starts to flow. Hurray! We are in Love.

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The reality of the new relationship is that it is based mostly on ideals the couple has imposed on each other, and less to do with the realities of life, so after the honeymoon phase, or period of time the realities of life set in, we start to have conflicts, not with the other person, but our ideals. Some can weather the storms and live together in relative harmony, but many people start to battle. Yikes!

Blame the Ideals and/or the other person?

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Now, this person we thought was our soulmate begins to appear a lot different from our ideal person; we start to question ourselves and then the other person. Little pet peeves pop up from time to time; they (this new person) or now the person we thought we knew, does not act or react the way we expected. Before we start the blame game, maybe we can change this other person to our idealistic person, then if that doesn’t work, time to start placing blame and finding faults, in the other person. Our protector, the ego kicks in to overdrive and says “We can change this person”, then if that fails finding faults will be easy.

For the married people the vows taken and given to each other, for example: “to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part.”, start to go out the window, and are replaced with building barriers, stonewalling, imposed ideals and intolerance. And for couples not married it’s minus the religious vows, legal paperwork, but the same protocol.

It’s not me, it’s them.

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People start to get angry, frustrated, and intolerant of each other, pointing fingers at the other person, demeaning comments flow, physical abuse (Very Bad), venting frustrations, or maybe the opposite holding it in, stonewalling or avoiding (passive-aggressive), but all the while, not truly understanding that they are upset with themselves mostly. Subconsciously personal idealistic mindsets are not being met and our ego’s will tell us this over and over, “it’s not me, it’s them”.

Ships passing in the night, I don’t care anymore and the excuse mindset set develops.

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People will use their work, kids, and other activities to avoid their significant other sometimes they will actively or passively do this, but what happens is they start to lose themselves and at the same time the other person. The ideals and envisioned life they chose appears to crumble apart.

Now it’s who plays the victim role? And what is funny about this particular role, well not really funny, but interesting is both parties may play this role, once it gets into the downward spiral people may start to come up with every, or any excuse why not to be together, instead of why they should be together and why it’s the other persons fault. Sometimes one party believes in the relationship, but the other just wants out and looks for everything they can to get out.

Let’s face it who wants to truly admit they choose or committed to the wrong partner?

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Not me, said my ego to me. Could I have been so wrong, or so blind? The victim mentality will set in, instead of saying to ourselves, “I choose this relationship and I will accept all the repercussions”. A person that is well grounded or not in a chaotic relationship may admit they made the choice, but that is not easily done if someone is in a vulnerable or chaotic state.

How many people can actually make a sound choice when things appear chaotic?

I personally think it’s important to seek immediate outside help if the person/couple find themselves using physical aggression against the other. Also there are others people that will keep it all in, this is also not good, and these are the people that slip through the radar because everything is internalized, until it all explodes one day and then it’s most likely to late.

Professional help is a great way to help understand ourselves and the other person, without biased opinions, or another great one is support groups with an experienced and qualified leader, because “However good or bad you feel about your relationship, the person you are with at this moment is the "right" person, because he or she is the mirror of who you are inside. -- Deepak Chopra.”

Why do we need to commit to another person?

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The reason we should ask this is, because if we are truly committed to another individual, why do we need a legal document to say we are bond, or why do we need a religious rite to say we are now bound together for life?

Are we that insecure about losing the other person, if we bind them with paper and a ceremony will it make them stay put?

“If you truly love me you’ll marry me.”

Making the “Big Commitment” to another person is how we have been indoctrinated, it’s what we have seen and heard most of our lives, and had re-enforce daily in our lives, on TV, in movies, in churches and everywhere we turn.

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A Union with God, and with each other, isn’t it against most religious beliefs to end a marriage, or are there loopholes and interpretations to get around that?
I will not post examples since this may cause a bias in one religion and that is not my purpose here, but what I will post why religion and logic seem to conflict many times and why it is very difficult to argue against. Religious defenses and arguments many times end up pointing back to other religious quotes, text, or documents, thus creating circular argumentation, which in a logical world is invalid.

1) From the religious/spiritual standpoint it will be purely argued from metaphysical perspective, and sometimes pointing to religious text, but in the end it points to a union with a Supreme Being or higher metaphysical force that we cannot see. So basically faith based, and faith cannot be argued with logic, it just is that “Faith”.

2) Then there is a purely logical, practical, pragmatic stance void of any religious dogma’s.

hmm, but marriages are intertwined both legally, families and religiously, thus promoting many issues.
“We are not just marrying the person, but their whole family” “And God”, if we believe in religious dogmas.

When we marry someone or even commit to them, we are going to marry everyone in their family, yes whether we want to believe it or not, that’s the Real Truth. We are going to interact with their family, and the other person will fall back on their family roots in good times and in bad. This extend marriage can be a wonderful thing, as long as everyone gets along, but if we have trouble makers in the mix, it is fuel for any fires that may arise. And if they are religious, look out, now “God” is involved too, or at least the interpretations of what “God” thinks.

Some will argue that they do not possess the other person, which may be true in some cases, but how many have been married legally or religiously without a “Marriage Licenses” or religious rite?

en.wikipedia.org...
“Black's Law Dictionary defines "license" as, "The permission by competent authority to do an act which without such permission [...] would be illegal. The authority to license implies the power to prohibit. A license by definition "confers a privilege" to do something. By allowing the state to exercise control over marriage, it is implied that we do not have a right to marry; marriage is a privilege. Those born in the US receive a birth certificate, not a birth license."

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The toxic word “Divorce”
Not many need a definition for divorce the stats speak for themselves, today are as high as 65% to 75% divorce rates in many parts of the world, then we have the 35% to 25% that are still married, of which how many are living together in peace and harmony, most likely a small percentage live symbiotically and actually learn to work out issue with their mate.

Did any of you know that Divorce is a law suit against the other party? Well it is, because the other party is suing for divorce and dissolution of the union of marriage. And whether or not both people agree, divorce will happen; hmmm that is not what it took to get married. How many people were needed to form the union again? lol.

Break-ups, separations, parting or ways, should it be considered a bad thing or a good thing?

Our egos and what society has instilled in us can make a separation of partners look like a failure, but many times it can be a good thing for personal and spiritual growth. What would happen if we choose to stay in the same classroom or grade all or our lives? Stagnation perhaps, the overall feeling of being trapped or maybe getting to comfortable and taking things for granted.

In conclusion, there are many loving relationships in the world today, and most of us know this because we have experienced them either firsthand or through being around couples that are loving, stable, and committed to the other each other. It appears that many people these days maybe taking their ideals too far and imposing them on others, instead of understanding the realities of a union between two people, which choose to devote their time to each other, without possessing them.

I think we need to accept and love people for who they are, because ultimately the only person we can change is ourselves, and most of us already know how hard that is. Hurting someone is an easy thing to do, but dedicating yourself to a person/family, and loving them through thick and thin take time and compassion.

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I would love to hear people’s inputs, remember your opinions are neither right nor wrong here, just different.


Peace out RT.

Beautiful post!

I think we do need to love and accept each other for what we are. But to do that, we have to KNOW who we are and be willing to tell the other person who we are. Sometimes, to learn that valuable lesson takes several (or many) relationships. It did with me, anyway. That's why, in my current relationship of 20 years, our first date consisted of us both being REALLY honest about who we are, what our limits are and what was important to each of us in life. We just agreed to lay it all out there because there's no use wasting time with someone who we'd grow to hate. I think it was a good move because we are more in love now than ever.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Beautiful post!

I think we do need to love and accept each other for what we are. But to do that, we have to KNOW who we are and be willing to tell the other person who we are. Sometimes, to learn that valuable lesson takes several (or many) relationships. It did with me, anyway. That's why, in my current relationship of 20 years, our first date consisted of us both being REALLY honest about who we are, what our limits are and what was important to each of us in life. We just agreed to lay it all out there because there's no use wasting time with someone who we'd grow to hate. I think it was a good move because we are more in love now than ever.

Thank you BH for sharing that with us, that is a true love story, based on honesty and reality.

I think we all need to hear success stories and first hand accounts like this one.

reply to post by Realtruth


Your thread makes sense in a mushy feely kind of way, but it seem's that the old adage of, "If you can't be with the one you love, love the one your with" is right on more then one level. And I was gona add something, but I forgot what I was going to say half way through reading it, so I just flagged it and gave you a five pointed blue diagram thingy.

Where to begin.

#1 Corporations and our government want the destruction of our strongest unit - THE FAMILY. Destroy the human family unit and assimilation is easier. By separating us we become better slave drones, committed to no one but "the corporation"............that is what TPTB want.

Allegiance to the "corporations" vs our family.

How many key latch children are there raising themselves, babysat by warped Hollywood TV standards, while mom and dad has to work?

Children should have a loving parent 24/7 during their first 18 years of life.

The strain takes it's toll, dad drinks, mom divorces dad, mom be littles and bad mouths dad and so many children living in a one parent household because of all the stress and strain of trying to scratch a living.

The Corporations want profit at the expense of the family unit. WAKE UP!

Humanity is being attacked from the inside out, in a very ingenious way by destroying our strongest weapon, THE FAMILY -

Relationships.

I can only inform you about mine...........It is none of my business about anyone elses.

I met and married a most wonderful man 37 years ago.

I try to be nice and easy but sometimes I am a real _itch to live with. He understands and accepts this. I have mellowed with age, I am working on being easier to live with. He is easy going and earthy. I am fire and passionate.

He looks a little like Prince Charles, his eyes are the color of the summer sky, he is tall and lanky, walks like a cowboy, is soft spoken, intellegent, gentle, kind and treats me like a queen.

I am most fortunate. He is my rock and my centering point. He is earth and I am air. (Aquarius / Gemini).

To me he is the most handsome man on earth.

Not a fancy dresser, not a jiving iving, he is a says it like it is. He is not romatic or smooth talking.

Watch "Murphy's Romance" with Sally Field and you will have a glimpse of my sweetie pie.

He is nine years older than me with a heart valve replacement.

My only hope, as I told my doctor recently, is that I go before him.

For without him, I would be partially dead..........he is half of my soul. I do not want to live without him. He is my best friend and lover.

We compromise, he gets his way sometimes and I get my way sometimes.

We talk and when it gets too heated up we go each to our respected corners and cool down.

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My grand daughter asked me, "Why did you chose grandpa?" and I answered, "Because he was intellegent, kind, honest and gentle".

She replied, "what about his blue eyes"?

And I replied, "Yes I also loved his beautiful blue eyes".

Love and commitment - we have been through hell and back, I could tell you stories to curl your hair........we have our oldest son, with ADHD, our second son couldn't handle the first being ADHD and the third being austistic so the second being caught in the middle messed up his mind possibly with withdrawing from any conflicts and our third is autistic.

We were always and foremost good parents. Our children always came first. But in order to raise a child in a halfway decent enviroment now you need a stable family unit and money.

Bottom line: Live with someone for four to five years / then if you want children / marry / then please please please make sure the marriage is stable and you have enough money that you can give that child a decent life style before making a baby - PERIOD.

Think before you procreate. Think of the consequences. Don't bring another miserable key latch kid into this world - please.

We have been through hell and back and living in a family where I have no family to speak of and his family is non supportive is rough........you must decide wisely if and when it is time to bring another soul into this dimension of being.

Don't just let "nature happen" ......PLAN!

I think a lot of people struggle with the distinction between Love and Lust. Lust is very hard to resist - whether that is physiologically or mentally. You will find yourself making justifications in your mind why you "love" another person, but these thoughts are based on feelings of lust not really love. Love is something that needs to develop, in my opinion, and cannot really come about spontaneously.

As others have mentioned, it does seem at times that we are being turned against each other by those in power so that we do not value meaningful relationships with others who we find faults in. There is also a Gender War taking place behind the scenes which is making it harder to sympathise with and tolerate differences between the opposite sex.

An excellent post sir. I think you bring up many great points. We all need to be mindful of how we are feeling towards our significant other and why we are feeling that way. Often times it is due to lack of trust in ourselves, and we super impose it on our loved one. I can attest to this personally as I've been a very jealous person and I have had to look at myself and try to figure out why I'm so jealous. It's something that's gotten a lot better, but still being worked on. Fortunately I have a very loving and compassionate significant other.

I screwed this entire thing up, sorry.

I'm losing net connection at same time, erg - new neighbors.

Loved the OP and responses anyway, was the gist of it.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


Thank you so much for your time, effort and thoughtful reply.

Lot's of wisdom and life experience there, but many in this life can read, read, read and will still have to stick their hand in the fire to realize a mistake.

And some will BBQ their hand more than once.

RT

The problem is that in the old days, people married as virgins, and then proceeded to have children. Now-a-days, most young men and women basically wear out thier souls, seeking sex for gratification. The true love that everyone seems to aim for only really occurs between virgins, blossoms, then they have children, the children grow up, and then they have more children. The natural emotions usually fade away after they have worn themselves out in the name of pleasure, the reproductive intent is what creates the strongest feelings. Also, we are less greatful for one and other, inventions such as make-up allow us to all appear the same, and to deceive others about our looks, money is also a tool that can be used in trade for sex, with children as merely a side-note.

Wonderful post which bridges the traditional understanding of Relationships with modern views and attitudes. Ive found that its mostly up to me how a Relationship plays out. But also: If problems keep coming up despite ones repeated commitment and uncondtionality, then they're just not a "natural match" and its time to move on.

I disagree with the post by offhumandescent which blames failing Relationships on Corporations. Whether a Relationship succeeds or not depends on whether we match by nature and whether there is a real commitment to go through highs and lows. But in some cases even Relationships that dont last forever were successful ones. There is no need to deem a Relationship that breaks up "unsuccessful" if the couple mostly spent a good time together. Seeking perfection in a relationship puts undue pressure on the partner and usually kills a Relationship.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Whether a Relationship succeeds or not depends on whether we match by nature and whether there is a real commitment to go through highs and lows. But in some cases even Relationships that dont last forever were successful ones. There is no need to deem a Relationship that breaks up "unsuccessful" if the couple mostly spent a good time together. Seeking perfection in a relationship puts undue pressure on the partner and usually kills a Relationship.

I think Skyfloating brings up an interesting point here, which goes back the dualities of life, in which, we seem to see things to view things as concrete and in black and white. Instead of seeing a relationship as good or bad, why not look at it as a growth period, if the growth has run it's course, then look in retrospect at how you have grown as a person.

I will wager even the most chaotic or seemingly worthless relationship has offer many learning lessons.

Many times when a relationships ends we choose to remain angry, depressed, withdrawn, but what if we took a good look at what we gained from the relationship and appreciated everything it brought us, good, bad, and indifferent?

I would say we would have grown exponentially in life, thus allowing for the release of both parties to move and express a higher vibrational state of being again.

Everyday we wake we are given a new chance, a new start, so what we do with that time is up to us.

We as a society are becoming increasingly fixated and obsessed with the physical. We are materialistic beings, and so we believe the modern-day definition of beauty. Both males and females undergo plastic surgery in order to banish those horrible wrinkles, or straighten that crooked nose. But one only needs to look at the countless screwed up people living in Hollywood to understand that this desire to appear young and beautiful forever is psycologically damaging. The physical is, ironically, immaterial. It doesn't matter, and to strive for the impossible (eternal youth, in this case) is enough to drive anybody mental. Soul is what is important, as is personality. But nobody in this day and age seems to care about that. They want the best looking person who acknowledges the fact that they exist. And then they are shocked that, not only are they incompatible with this person, but they are treated the same way as they have been in previous relationships. People in that situation tend to blame the opposite sex (all men are pigs), rather than look in the mirror and re-examine the qualities they look for in a mate Physical attraction is fundamental, but not paramount. And, if you're simply basing your relationship on material things (or convience, for that matter), it is doomed to fail. Or, at the very least, you are doomed to hate your life for as long as it continues.

There is more, however.

Couple the above with the fact that we are a fast-paced, fast moving society. We want everything immediatley, and if we don't get it, we move on. Relationships, no matter how loving or perfect, still take a lot of work. The more you see of someone, the more that someone is going to take down their proverbial wall. You will find faults that you didn't know were there before, and then you will have to decide whether or not you can live with those faults. Instead of accepting the person we love for everything that they are, however, we are constantly trying to change them into the person we want them to be. And this ultimatley leads to disaster.

More to come.

We live in an ever-increasing social society. Decades ago, the woman stayed at home and the man went to work. The men conversed at work and over beers at the end of the day, and the women conversed with the other women until their men came home. I'm not saying this is the way things should be either, mind you. But we are more aware today then ever that there are plenty of fish in the sea. Not only that, but we get to see all those fish swimming around on a daily basis. This can spark lustful thoughts, and even anger towards your significant other. And, like the old proverb says, the grass is always greener on the other side. We constantly want more, and are rarely satisfied with the things that we have. And with that mindset, it just takes the smallest push to send a relationship spiraling out of control.

We need to stop listening to our brain. The little voice inside your head is the be-all and end-all of relationships, and you need to tell it to shut the hell up. When you find "the one" your brain should be numb to the point of retardation. People need to listen to their heart and soul in matters such as relationships, because they will rarely steer you wrong. People need to re-discover patience and acceptance. People, in other words, need to grow up, and stop focusing on everything negative about their lives. Many people go their whole lives without loving, or being loved. If you love and are loved, then you are blessed beyond measure. So ignore the wide thighs and the pot-belly, for God's sake.


GtkP