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Religious Dogma is Speculation. Discuss

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posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 06:30 PM
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reply to post by sinohptik
 





First off, does anyone know if one can easily multiquote without manually entering in code? would make such things so much easier i am a lazy..er... efficient religionist after all


Not sure if this is what you are looking for - but try using the little buttons up at the top of the screen after you hit "Reply to". They are under your name and then under the font selections.




posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by peacevic
reply to post by sinohptik
 





...along with christian, buddhist, atheist, and more! these things all point to truth to me, because as parts of all that is, they all point to the same thing.


Interesting perspective in that they are one of a whole (all that is). But I don't think that followers of these different dogmas believe that they subscribe to the same truth.

It appears you take a philosophical or metaphysical view of these that allows you to see the similarities and leans you toward open-mindedness, whereas many believers take a more literal view that accentuates the differences, and tends to close their minds to alternate ideas.


I agree completely. I think thats the danger in any set of beliefs, whether they are based on religion, science, or the beautiful Dumpling
I was so busy "thinking" about moving my arm that it never moved, and all i got was a headache and stupid t-shirt, heh


Let me be blunt though (this is for everyone), this is the only board (other than one other, though it doesnt compare in scale or topic) where it seems people can actually have completely "opposing" ideas and discuss them civilly (for the most part, obviously!). I really appreciate anyone and everyone who can do that, so a deep thanks to all who have had discussions with me thus far. You are helping me learn, i only hope i can do the same for you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by troubleshooter
 


Oh right, never heard of it.

It is the relationship of spirit that Paul describes in his letter collected in the New Testament documents...
...millions of people in the world know this dynamic relationship with the Spirit.

Looking at religious structures you will never see it...
...like looking at two old ugly couple and not seeing that it is love that holds them together...
...you don't see the love and you don't see the Spirit.

I will say it again...there is only one way to know the Spirit...
...and as foolish as it may seem to you...
...if you read the death and resurrection stories in the Gospels and believe them...
...you have received the Spirit...
...and you too will know what millions of others already know.




posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 07:52 PM
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reply to post by troubleshooter
 


In your opinion, do you think animals have this "Spirit" you're talking about? For example, penguins mate for life; is this the "love" or "spirit" you talk about, or are we talking abstract emotions here?



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by troubleshooter
 


In your opinion, do you think animals have this "Spirit" you're talking about? For example, penguins mate for life; is this the "love" or "spirit" you talk about, or are we talking abstract emotions here?

Just my opinion then...

I don't think animals have the same inate capacity for a relationship with the Spirit...
...but they do have extraordinary abilitites to relate to each other and to us...
...my best friend is a dog.


The imaginary friend some children have may be a vestigial capacity for this in humans...
...and as adults most try to fill up the void with substances and obsessions.



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by AllIsOne
reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy
 


Thank you for your post. Very nicely written.


Your welcome.


Originally posted by AllIsOne
I think you're only playing with semantics. Universe, God, Being, etc.: you are substituting one term for the other.


All the terms are connected, that is why you think I am playing with semantics. If you are looking for God, you must first define God. God is commonly defined as a being, and I was explaining how the entire Universe as a whole is a being. The universe is alive, it is a giant living thing, it exists, it is an infinite entity. Within the Universe is all power, all knowledge, all life, everything...

With a name like "All is One" you would think you already understand this.


Originally posted by AllIsOne
You are also jumping to a very "unscientific" conclusion in your presentation, but I let you figure out where.


How about you tell me.

All I have done is made a hypothesis, made observations, used life and history as an experiment, and came to a conclusion. The scientific process.


Originally posted by AllIsOne
The real question is, and the OP hinted at it as well, consciousness. According to your definition is your "universe" conscious? Aka aware of itself? At what point does "matter" become conscious? At what point does carbon, or all the other elements of the human body become conscious?


Are you conscious? Yes. Are you a part of the Universe? Yes. Then the Universe is partly conscious in that sense.

Are other life forms conscious? Yes. Are those life forms a part of the Universe? Yes. Then the Universe is partly conscious in that sense as well.

The simple fact that we exist inside the universe, and we are conscious, and we are a part of the universe, is a start to understanding that parts of the universe (which is one object) is conscious. Just like parts of the human body are conscious.

The Universe includes the combined consciousness of all life, and more. Omniscience.

Thinking further...

Are you not just matter? What are you exactly? You are matter which is animated in various ways which make you conscious. Your brain which you believe gives you consciousness is matter undergoing chemical reactions and creating electrical impulses which you believe is you. Is not the entire Universe a larger version of you?

Scientists do not understand the electrical signals firing in your brain, but they believe it gives you consciousness because they can see the end result. So what about the electrical signals all over the Universe? Just because we can not physically see the end result, does it mean it doesn't amount to a larger consciousness? No.

Electromagnetic photons are flowing from every star to every location in the Universe, visible and invisible, pulsating at different rates, causing different chemical reactions all over the Universe and on Earth. It causes all sorts of life giving functions, and animates the world. Electrons which are present in all matter also flow from object to object. You got electrons (electricity) flowing from your body to Earth. You got electrons flowing between the sky and the Earth. Electrons (electricity) flow between almost EVERYTHING in the Universe. The Universe is like a brain, and the electrical signals which we think give the brain consciousness. Who is to say all those Universal processes don't add up to a large consciousness? Nobody. In fact, there is more evidence that the entire Universe is a large conscious entity than there is not.

Inside the Universe exists every chemical reaction known to man. All energy known to man. All consciousness known to man. All of everything known to man. The Universe as a whole is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, supernatural, and it is alive, in a state of being. It meets all the definitions of God.

There are parts of the Universe that science will never be able to study, EVER. That is why we shouldn't rely on science alone for answers. With science you will only discover what is visible and detectable. We have already discovered with science that there exist things which are invisible and undetectable, things which we will never be able to understand. Sometimes you have to use pure logic and reason to understand what science will never be able to.



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by troubleshooter
 



Can you define more about this spirit that only humans can have a relationship with and only those humans who read and believe the death and resurrection stories in the gospels?

What is this spirit?
What evidence leads you to believe it exists?
How did you determine these "rules" of relating to the spirit?



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy
 





This is why I laugh when people say there is no proof that God exists.


I think the joke is on you. You must be a little delusional if you think your essay has proved the existence of God.


Well, the universe itself and the fact it is in a state of being, and existing, and is alive, is proof that God exists because God is basically a name for the Universe, and life, and existence, which does exist.


The joys of circular logic are endless ...



It's like looking at the Earth and saying the Earth doesn't exist. It is blindness (please don't be offended by this).


Not at all offended. I'm highly amused by this.



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 10:50 PM
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Are you conscious? Yes. Are you a part of the Universe? Yes. Then the Universe is partly conscious in that sense.
Are other life forms conscious? Yes. Are those life forms a part of the Universe? Yes. Then the Universe is partly conscious in that sense as well.
reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy
 


So the house I live in is conscious because its occupants are? Nope.



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 11:11 PM
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reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy
 




There are parts of the Universe that science will never be able to study, EVER.


Can you give an example ?




That is why we shouldn't rely on science alone for answers. With science you will only discover what is visible and detectable. We have already discovered with science that there exist things which are invisible and undetectable


You have lost me here with your train of thought ...





things which we will never be able to understand. Sometimes you have to use pure logic and reason to understand what science will never be able to.


Things that we will never understand will be understood using logic and reason? I must be getting very tired ...

I always thought that scientists are using reason and logic to understand phenomena.



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 11:47 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 





Like i have said time and time again, I cannot profess to know for certain that "GOD" does not exist, but i highly doubt that it is anything as proposed by any of man's religions.


Amen to that :-)

I believe there is some truths to most of the religions. Most of them derived from a person who had a real spiritual/supernatural experience(s) and then tried to communicate what happened. I believe that those experiencers had a glimpse into a "higher reality". I'm using quotation marks because it is impossible to use words for that experience and therein lies the dilema: how can you quantize/qualify something that is beyond words? Well, you start to make up BS and hope & pray that nobody notices ...

Have you had a mystic, spiritual experience in your life? I'm not talking about trips aided by substances that cannot be mentioned on this forum.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:34 AM
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Originally posted by AllIsOne
I think the joke is on you. You must be a little delusional if you think your essay has proved the existence of God.


You must be delusional if you have a name like "all is one" but you don't even realize the meaning of that saying. What is that "ONE"? What do you call that "ONE"? I call it GOD.

Actually the joke is on you. Here you are thinking you have the authority to decide what is proof of God or not. What is your definition of God? Your definition is obviously different than mine, that is why you would say such a stupid comment like that.

I am telling you what I think God is... I think God is the universe, God is life, God is everything. So the fact the universe exists and that life exists and everything exists... is proof that my God exists. I call everything God.

God is a name. A name that many people have many different opinions and definitions of. I can make a new name, for example "Blahblah", and may people can have different opinions and definitions for what "Blahblah" is. If I tell you "Blahblah" is a shoe, who are you to tell me "Blahblah" is not a shoe? If I tell you the shoe is proof that "Blahblah" exists, who are you to say otherwise? NOBODY.


Originally posted by AllIsOne

Well, the universe itself and the fact it is in a state of being, and existing, and is alive, is proof that God exists because God is basically a name for the Universe, and life, and existence, which does exist.


The joys of circular logic are endless ...


It's not circular logic. I am telling you my definition of God. Maybe you should educate yourself on the various beliefs of God before you make yourself look as uneducated as you already appear.


Originally posted by AllIsOne

It's like looking at the Earth and saying the Earth doesn't exist. It is blindness (please don't be offended by this).


Not at all offended. I'm highly amused by this.


The uneducated always laugh at what they don't understand.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:44 AM
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I read somewhere that God was Love, Light, the Truth and the Way...

I know this is not my conversation but I just had to add, God also owns the universe in my opinion.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:48 AM
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This thread seems to like to be moved around a lot


either way, it seems it is slowly turning into a debate/discussion to win as opposed to a debate/discussion to learn. Not uncommon, thats for sure, and easy to fall into as well. Anyone involved is personally responsible (including myself). Its easy to tear apart anothers logic on their ideas, or the way they present their ideas, or their spelling, or what have you.

Lets put a stop to that. None of us know what the # we are talking about on this, so lets not pretend we do


It takes more thought, effort, and openness to try to understand where another perspective is coming from, and then propose your own opinion or thoughts on the matter. As opposed to simply tearing apart the presentation itself. That leads to nothing but division, and the greatest way to control a populace is have them fight amongst themselves, i think.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:16 AM
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Originally posted by AllIsOne



Are you conscious? Yes. Are you a part of the Universe? Yes. Then the Universe is partly conscious in that sense.
Are other life forms conscious? Yes. Are those life forms a part of the Universe? Yes. Then the Universe is partly conscious in that sense as well.
reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy
 


So the house I live in is conscious because its occupants are? Nope.



With your logic then YOU are not conscious.
Please do tell me what part of you is conscious. I will warn you, your answer is wrong.

Actually what you said was a logical fallacy. A house is a name given by humans to describe a collection of matter in a certain shape. That collection of matter is a part of the universe, it is not separate from the universe, it is one with the universe, it is what makes up the universe. The occupants of the house are also a collection of matter that is a part of the universe, the occupants are one with the universe, they make up the universe. The house and the occupants are the same object, they are one.

So you are wrong, the house IS conscious. Not because the occupants are inside, but because the occupants and the house share the same body.

That is one of the basis of Buddhism. Buddhism understands that the Universe is alive. The rocks are alive, but they live the life of a rock. The ground is alive, the trees are alive, everything is alive. I share some of the same beliefs of Buddhism, because it is logically true. However, I am not a Buddhist.

If you truly understand the meaning of your name "all is one", then you would realize that the entire universe is ONE. The Universe is ONE OBJECT WITH MANY PARTS. If the parts are conscious, then the entire whole can be considered conscious.

Just like your body. Your body is one object with many parts. Your brain is not one object. Your brain is many objects combined together. No single part of your brain is conscious, it is the collection of parts which creates the consciousness. However, your brain would not exist if it wasn't for other parts of your body. If your heart didn't exist, then your brain would have blood and wouldn't exist. If your lungs didn't exist then your heart wouldn't work. If your veins and arteries didn't exist, then either would the rest of your body. If your digestive system didn't exist then you wouldn't exist and either would your brain. You are not your brain, you are your entire body. You are the parts of your body. You are no single part, you are the totality of all parts.

So, if I point to your heart, I can say your heart is conscious. If I point to your lungs, I could say your lungs are conscious. If I point to your bones, arteries, digestive system, nervous system, etc., I could say all those are conscious, because all those parts as a whole create a consciousness. Without those parts, there would be no consciousness.

The life forms that exist within the universe are like the body parts that exist within the human body. The rocks, the sand on the beach, the mountains, the streams, the planets, the stars, the life forms on Earth, YOU, all those are body parts of the universe. All of those parts could be considered conscious because all those parts help create consciousness. Without the air, with land, without the stars, without the life forms, no consciousness would exist. Just like without your heart, lungs, arteries, digestive system, nervous system, you wouldn't exist.

The Universe is conscious. That is a FACT.
edit on 20-12-2010 by gift0fpr0phecy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:49 AM
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reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy
 


That is your perspective, and will not apply to All That Is, or even individual components thereof (others perspectives). what you perceive as truth will be understood and digested by every one differently. thats one of the beauties of this universe, i think. Be careful proposing your ideas as "facts" when it comes to other, equally valid, perspectives. You conceptualization of said facts is undeniably limited and biased, and as such, only a small fraction of a fraction of the totality of that which you speak.

If you are a conscious part of All That Is friend, then perhaps you should do your best to try to show others how to find the truth for themselves. In doing so, you may find many shades of enlightenment.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:15 AM
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reply to post by sinohptik
 


If you point to something I said that isn't a fact. I will give you a cookie.

A human has a body. Parts of the body are conscious. That means it is a fact that the human is conscious.

The Universe is a body. Parts of the body are conscious. That means it is a fact that the Universe is conscious.

It's absolute.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:17 AM
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reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy
 


You missed the point entirely, friend.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:26 AM
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reply to post by sinohptik
 


No I didn't. You are trying to tell me something I already know. I know everyone has a different perspective... but they are all looking at the same object, just a different angle. I work with absolutes which should be the same from every and all perspectives.

Claiming everyone finds "their own truth" is a cop-out. There is a universal truth that should be similar to all perspectives, and that is what I am trying to describe. Everything else other than the absolute is biased, and only opinion.

What you said was just unnecessary verbiage.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:29 AM
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reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy
 


How do you know you didnt? You even say yourself we all have a different perspective.

How do you know what i was proposing?

Ill be blunt this time, you are not omniscient, individually. your opinions on what is or is not absolute is meaningless to others perspectives and search for All That Is. You are not All That Is exclusively, what do you know of "absolutes" beyond your own perspective?

edit: to clarify, why do you limit God/All That Is by your own limited definitions on what is, or is not, absolute?
edit on 20-12-2010 by sinohptik because: (no reason given)




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