Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by LDragonFire
An error in judgement is running a stop sign or speeding.
Using your judgment, shouldn't they lose the privilege to drive for life? Zero Tolerance is how we are right? In this free society?
Homicide, rape, robbery, and similar crimes are not errors in judgement. They are a complete breakdown and collapse in civility.
All Felon's can't vote, is a DWI without a accident the same as rape, murder, and similar crimes? There is no line drawn, the law is one size fits
all. Should people with a felony DWI or a Felony drug conviction or any other felony where its a victimless crime lose there Right To Vote as a
Citizen of this country? We have more people in prisons and probation and parole than any other nation on Earth. This group of people are not
represented in our society, yet we do get judgmental when they fail.
Someone who commits such crimes has completely failed their obligations as a citizen. It is their duty to fulfill those obligations. Failure to
do so puts them at the mercy of the state and society.
Were only human, humans make mistakes, if your 18 years old and your caught making out with your 16 year old girlfriend not only do you face a felony
conviction but you will most likely find yourself on a offender list....for life...plus you can't vote again....Ever.
Life and Liberty are dependent upon the existence of civil society. Tolerating the actions of criminals restricts the life and liberty of civil
society. Its not a debt that one pays. Its a violation of the social contract. Your trying to put a price on the violation of civil members property,
personhood, and lives. You can't assign value to rape, murder, and robbery.
Violation of a civil persons rights, their life and liberty is beyond measure.
Life and Liberty..... we live in a country that the government can now target you for assassination for being a suspected terrorist. We live in a
country where everyone is considered guilty; random drug tests, sobriety checkpoints, now seat belt check points, TSA scanners and strip searches at
air ports coming to a train station and bus stop near you, we must pass back ground checks for employment [meaning felons need not apply] we must show
our papers on demand to make purchases, and we must submit and not question authority or we run the risk of being tazed and killed, we are not allowed
to take pictures if we are on a train or other public transportation because again were all suspected terrorist. Wow I didn't even mention no search
warrants, or phone tapping, and those x-ray vans coming to a neighborhood near you.
It seems to me if someone is convicted of a felony they are stripping there citizenship by not allowing them to vote. Do you think these people could
somehow make rape, or murder legal? Is this the reason they should not be able to vote?
Life and Liberty is a wonderful illusion here.
Again your dwelling on the most serious of crimes. The law doesn't specify only the worst felons. It states All Felons even the victimless crimes.
Also you need to remember when the colonies declared there independence they in the eyes of there out of touch King were all traitors, looters, and
murderers. We are a country born of dissenters. Im thinking you would have been a king George supporter back in the day surrounded by a bunch of
criminals. BTW taxation without Representation was the reason for the rebellion.
This being a humane and civil society, they are still entitled to basic human rights.This includes a right to medical care, employment,
education, housing, religion, expression, food, water, and clothing. Voting isn't a basic human right.
You don't consider representation as a basic right?
In some minor felonies, I could see the chance for rehabilitation, but even repeat offenders for minor felonies should be subject to the same
penalties for major felonies.
Every society that has ever existed has had criminal issues with around 2% of there population. Crime happens, people do error, people kill over
crimes of passion. We will never have a crime free society, this would be a good topic for a thread btw. I just can't stand a zero tolerant society,
its not free but more of a authoritarian type of system, the more laws they make the more chances of you being thrown into the system. Once your in
the prison system you are set up to fail...there are many books on this topic and this would also make a good thread.
I also worry about the minority issue with them making up the majority of our prison population. They as minorities need representation more than any
other groups. Im not accusing you of anything, just bringing it up.
These are very basic concepts for a civil society. This isn't eye for eye. No one is getting their hands chopped off. This isn't capital
punishment for the slightest offense. This is very basic and very civil.
First Degree Murder is very much a eye for a eye with capital punishment, and if more of the supporters of this zero tolerant society had there way
other crimes would also call for the death penalty.
I don't see why your trying to justify taking away some ones right to vote, because we don't have a barbaric justice system.
Voting Rights in the USA
Prisoner voting rights is a state issue, so the laws are different from state to state. Some states allow only individuals on probation and ex-felons
to vote. Others allow individuals on parole, probation and ex-felons to vote. As of July 2007, fourteen states, eleven of them in the South, ban
anyone with a felony conviction from voting for life, even after the person has served the sentence, while only two states, Maine and Vermont, allow
incarcerated individuals to vote.
According to the Sentencing Project, 5.3 million Americans are denied the right to vote because of a felony conviction ("felony
disenfranchisement"). The number of people disenfranchised amounts to approximately 2.42% of the otherwise-eligible voting population. This is
in sharp contrast to European nations, like Norway, allow ex-felons to vote after serving sentences and in some cases allow prisoners to vote.
Prisoners have been allowed to vote in Canada since 2002.
The United States has a higher proportion of its population in prison than any other Western nation, and more than Russia or China.. The dramatic rise
in the rate of incarceration in the United States, a 500% increase from the 1970s to the 1990s due to criminalization of certain behaviors, strict
sentencing guidelines and changes in philosophy, has vastly increased the number of people disfranchised because of the felon provisions. Given the
prison populations, the effects have been most disadvantageous for minority and poor communities.
edit on 17-12-2010 by LDragonFire because:
(no reason given)
edit on 17-12-2010 by LDragonFire because: (no reason given)