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Political Lie of the Year

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posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 05:29 AM
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And the winner is.............

news.yahoo.com...

Gee, I thought death panels should have been a contender. And before you dismiss Politifact, there were plenty of candidates from both parties.




posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 05:55 AM
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reply to post by kinda kurious
 


So the "Political Lie of the Year" is that Obama's healthcare was a "government take over of the healthcare system"?

Politifact's reasoning was that since private insurance companies would be selling the insurance, it wasn't a government take over. I find this logic short sighted and almost childlike in it's simplicity.

If the Government forces individuals to buy a product (in this case, health insurance) and then controls what that product needs to be and how it needs to be offered and how much may be charged for it and who it must be sold to regardless of what circumstances, I would call that a government take over.

Maybe it's just me...



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 06:05 AM
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reply to post by BomSquad
 


I believe the point was that the spin implied Government would run/manage the system like Social Security etc when in fact it is run by private companies. In short, another false scare tactic.



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 06:11 AM
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And what is it called when Corporations and the State merge?

I wouldn't call it a scare tactic, you should be scared.



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 06:11 AM
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Originally posted by BomSquad
reply to post by kinda kurious
 


So the "Political Lie of the Year" is that Obama's healthcare was a "government take over of the healthcare system"?

Politifact's reasoning was that since private insurance companies would be selling the insurance, it wasn't a government take over. I find this logic short sighted and almost childlike in it's simplicity.

If the Government forces individuals to buy a product (in this case, health insurance) and then controls what that product needs to be and how it needs to be offered and how much may be charged for it and who it must be sold to regardless of what circumstances, I would call that a government take over.

Maybe it's just me...

I do think it's just you...
IMO, you Americans need a proper National Health system, such as we have here, not some ghastly mongrel such as you now have!
Vicky



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 06:18 AM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 


Well aren't you are 'forced' to have auto insurance. No merger there.


Sorry I am in support of ANYTHING to get my medical insurance / prescriptions lower. ( I live in US and currently order my meds from Canada since they are cheaper than EXACT SAME product made/sold here.)



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 07:10 AM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 





And what is it called when Corporations and the State merge?

It is called neo-corporatism or Facism.

I find it is hysterical that naive bleeding hearts fail to see the government-industry revolving door that has been at work for years. Why is THIS admin so different? It is not. They bait the trap with a bit of carrot and the sheeple walk into the shearing pen every time.

Actually the nastiest most hurtful laws seem to be slipped through when DEMOCRATS are in power because the Republicans are watched so closely. For example look at the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 or the confiscation of privately held gold by FDR, gold that was then given to the Bank of England (Rothchild) Look at the ratification of the World Trade Organization, and the repeal of the Glass-Steadman act that led to the present collapse. All signed into law by DEMOCRATS! I have no use for the republicans but at least you EXPECT them to support big business. The Democrats are the back stabbers.




I wouldn't call it a scare tactic, you should be scared.


As usual no one see the real horror of this bill. First this county is broke and we can not afford it. Second how will it be funded? Congress will Borrow fairy dust from the Banksters (the Fed) to pay for it. In return for NOTHING but a accounting entry the poor and middle class will be paying the banksters with their labor FOREVER. 100% of our tax dollars go to pay interest on the NOTHING .

WORSE is the Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

First over 50% of all jobs are from small business.

So who are the big employers? The US government who employs 17% of the work force followed by Wal-Mart, Kelley temp staffing and McDonalds. The top ten employers hire store clerks, burger flippers, bank tellers and other low paying menials.

So what is the problem? Obamacare will wipe out stuggling small businesses. That is the real problem.

80% of new businesses fail in the first three years. Of these failed business, only 10% of them close involuntarily due to bankruptcy and the remaining 90% close because the business was not successful, did not provide the level of income desired or was too much work for their efforts....

Now think what this provision of the health care law is going to do to the jobless rate as additional red tape strangles small business owners and they give up out frustration.

The 50 employee cap on small businesses is bad enough. But I can tell you all the small business owners I have talked to are seeing red over this provision. If you do not believe me go talk to your auto mechanic or the guy who owns a local restaurant.

The hidden teeth in OBAMACARE



NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- An all-but-overlooked provision of the health reform law is threatening to swamp U.S. businesses with a flood of new tax paperwork.

Section 9006 of the health care bill -- just a few lines buried in the 2,409-page document -- mandates that beginning in 2012 all companies will have to issue 1099 tax forms not just to contract workers but to any individual or corporation from which they buy more than $600 in goods or services in a tax year.

The stealth change radically alters the nature of 1099s and means businesses will have to issue millions of new tax documents each year.

Right now, the IRS Form 1099 is used to document income for individual workers other than wages and salaries....

But under the new rules, if a freelance designer buys a new iMac from the Apple Store, they'll have to send Apple a 1099. A laundromat that buys soap each week from a local distributor will have to send the supplier a 1099 at the end of the year tallying up their purchases....
money.cnn.com...



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 07:13 AM
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Originally posted by kinda kurious

Well aren't you are 'forced' to have auto insurance. No merger there.


No, I am not. NH does not mandate auto insurance. You're a fool if you dont have it but there is no law mandating it.

I hate it when these mouths get up on TV and start ranting about the auto insurance mandate. There isnt one.

Theyre lying to your face to make accepting another lie more tolerable.



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 07:38 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


Thanks for pointing that out, I did not know that. (Note to self: Don't drive in NH)

Is NH a Commonwealth or state?

Any other different laws from most other states? Speed limit, state income tax, concealed weapon permits etc?



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 07:47 AM
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reply to post by kinda kurious
 


Every state has different laws.

NH has no car insurance mandate, no state income tax, no sales tax, no permit required for open carry, no AWB provisions, are just a few to come to mind.

We also have the lowest crime in the country or next to lowest depending on which year you look at.



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 08:01 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


Thanks for the input admittedly I was unaware of those particulars. I once lived in Pennsylvania and was surprised they don't sell beer in the grocery store. (It is a commonwealth) Their TORT laws were different as well.
I only lasted 9 months due to bitter cold and came running back to Florida once a "No Compete Clause" expired that I was waiting out.

It is often interesting explaining the United States laws to foreigners. Oh yea, you can gamble in a some states and in Nevada, hookers are OK.



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 09:19 AM
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crimvelvet- you win my post of the week award... congratulations. It won't get you anything, it's not worth anything, but you win it anyway
You really hit the nail on the head with your post.

Yes, the merging of Corporation and State is indeed Fascism. Now I would not say that the Government would take over healthcare, but what they did do was back the insurance companies and are forcing people to get health insurance. They are forcing people to buy a product and any way you look at it, it is a merging of Corporation and State.

Kinda- yes some states you are required to carry Auto insurance. I would not say anyone is "forced" to do so, however many states have made it increasingly difficult to drive without it. In many states where you are required to carry auto insurance, the DMV is directly contacted once you allow a policy to expire. Once the DMV is notified, you have a specific amount of days in which to turn in your license plate or you are subject to fines through the DMV.

Some people will call me crazy for this, and feel free to do so, but insurance of any kind to me is nothing more than a scam. If I pay money to health insurance all year long and I do not get sick and use that insurance, shouldn't I get my money back? The insurance company did nothing for me. The insurance was not needed, so why does this company get to keep my hard earned money? If I carry auto insurance, and I do not have an accident and the company does not have to pay out, why do they again get to keep my money?



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 09:52 AM
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Originally posted by MrWendal
Some people will call me crazy for this, and feel free to do so, but insurance of any kind to me is nothing more than a scam. If I pay money to health insurance all year long and I do not get sick and use that insurance, shouldn't I get my money back? The insurance company did nothing for me. The insurance was not needed, so why does this company get to keep my hard earned money? If I carry auto insurance, and I do not have an accident and the company does not have to pay out, why do they again get to keep my money?


Glad I'm not one of your heirs. Let me guess, no life insurance?

Admittedly, insurance is often a gamble but conversely if you do get sick or house burns down or car totalled it is nice to have.

My motto: "Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it."

And yes, I was a Boy Scout.

edit on 17-12-2010 by kinda kurious because: typo



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 10:22 AM
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reply to post by kinda kurious
 




Admittedly, insurance is often a gamble but conversely if you do get sick or house burns down or car totalled it is nice to have.

My motto: "Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it."

And yes, I was a Boy Scout.


It really depends on what you have to lose. If you are in good health, in debt, in a dead end job with no family, then insurance does not make any sense at least in the USA.

If you are older, have a house with equity, savings, a small business a very nice paid off car, then you are a fool not to have at least business, home and car insurance.



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by crimvelvet
...It really depends on what you have to lose. If you are in good health.... then insurance does not make any sense at least in the USA.


So "healthy people" don't have car accidents, get pregnant, break bones or get stitches? Hmmmmm.

Keep rolling them dice dude....the baby needs shoes.


edit on 17-12-2010 by kinda kurious because: typo

edit on 17-12-2010 by kinda kurious because: add content



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by kinda kurious
 


Every state has different laws.

NH has no car insurance mandate, no state income tax, no sales tax, no permit required for open carry, no AWB provisions, are just a few to come to mind.

We also have the lowest crime in the country or next to lowest depending on which year you look at.


NH has also historically been one of the least racially diverse states in the country. (i was born in Manchester NH btw - Elliot Hospital. Lived in Southern NH till age 18)

You made a good point earlier about NH's lack of an insurance mandate - sure you don't NEED it, but it's rather stupid to drive without it. A friend of mine who still lives in NH got into a pretty good car accident and was paying for YEARS (he was very at fault) due to a lack of insurance.

It was pretty ugly, and unfortunately, he STILL doesn't feel the need for insurance.



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by kinda kurious
 


"Elect ME and I'll fix this..."

---it's the same lie every election year. Your welcome.



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


I will grant you that NH may not mandate Auto Insurance but there are quite a few states that do. That being said, when speaking about a state with an automobile mandate and the healthcare mandate how is the federal healthcare legislation a federal govt takeover of healthcare but a state mandate for auto insurance isn't that state taking over auto insurance?



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by kinda kurious

Originally posted by MrWendal
Some people will call me crazy for this, and feel free to do so, but insurance of any kind to me is nothing more than a scam. If I pay money to health insurance all year long and I do not get sick and use that insurance, shouldn't I get my money back? The insurance company did nothing for me. The insurance was not needed, so why does this company get to keep my hard earned money? If I carry auto insurance, and I do not have an accident and the company does not have to pay out, why do they again get to keep my money?


Glad I'm not one of your heirs. Let me guess, no life insurance?

Admittedly, insurance is often a gamble but conversely if you do get sick or house burns down or car totalled it is nice to have.

My motto: "Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it."

And yes, I was a Boy Scout.

edit on 17-12-2010 by kinda kurious because: typo


No I do not carry life insurance either and I am also glad you are not one of my heirs. My heirs know that they need to work for everything they have in life and to expect nothing to be given to them. Of course, my heirs will gain something when I eventually expire, but they do not know it and I would not want them to know it. I would not want them to think they can slack off and not work cause one day when I die they will be alright.

Maybe a lot of my views about insurance also go back to how I live my life. I refuse to buy $30,000 + cars. I buy used cars, I get the most out of them after paying very little for them. I certainly get my money's worth. I have refused to buy a home, I rent. Which in my opinion was very smart of me after we all watched the housing crisis in the U.S. where even the media was forced to admit that people paid WAY WAY too much for their homes. I refuse to use a bank, and I refuse to use credit cards. I actually keep only 2 secured credit cards with very low credit limits. In my life, if I do not have the cash to buy something outright, than I can not afford it. I am not a party to this bogus system of credit and live beyond my means.

I have bought auto insurance when I have had to by law, and I have been in auto accidents. However, I come out ahead because I am a responsible driver. In every instance where I have had an auto accident, I have made out quite well for the investment I made in the vehicle.

As far as my health goes, I am in pretty good shape. I do not run to a doctor for every cough and cold. I grew up very poor, and in my home if the bones were not broken and you can stop the bleeding, you don't really need a doctor. If I get the Flu the solution for me is not to run to a doctor for antibiotics, it is to put my back side in bed, drink lots of fluids, maybe even take some vitamin C and allow the Flu to run it's course. I will be ok in a couple days. Unfortunately we live in the land of the fee and home of the slave where taking a couple days off is frowned upon so people want instant results. What they fail to realize is they wont get those instant results, not even with the help of a doctor. Usually, I feel better faster than those who actually go to a doctor and take the drugs they are provided. Feel free to call me foolish, but the results speak for themselves.
edit on 17-12-2010 by MrWendal because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 04:11 PM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 


I sincerely admire your forthright lifestyle. It seems you practice what you preach and that is refreshing.

BTW, I was never handed anything either and strive to be frugal too however "pride of ownership" (my house) is a tough habit to break. Granted it isn't worth what I paid but no one is going to kick me out of it.

Thanks for the illumination and alternate view on things.



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