Bradley Manning's health deteriorating in jail, supporters say (WL)

reply to post by arbitrarygeneraiist


Manning will now have a choice to allow Assange to legally accept some of the responsibility. Plea bargaining is not a new concept and has been the downfall of many criminal bosses. If Assange is such a selfless philanthropist he should jump at the opportunity to prove that he is above it all and willingly spend time in jail, in solidarity with his acolyte.
Manning is just a dumb kid who thought that he was being important by releasing the documents to Assange. Maybe Assange got some and then threatened Manning to get more. Maybe Assange isn't quite the hero some think he is. Maybe he is just a con man and intel salesman needing suckers to provide him with product and other suckers to believe that he is doing it all "for the good of the world."

reply to post by pteridine


You ever meet or speak to Manning? I only ask because you seem to state as a matter of fact that he is a dumb kid, without the faintest idea of his motivations, his character , or indeed the slightest bit of factual knowlege about him.
Keep it real as the kids like to say.

reply to post by pteridine


Plea bargains from mentally fit individuals is one thing. Coercing a confession after months of deprivation is another. Any court that allows it is dangerous.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by pteridine

 

You ever meet or speak to Manning? I only ask because you seem to state as a matter of fact that he is a dumb kid, without the faintest idea of his motivations, his character , or indeed the slightest bit of factual knowlege about him.
Keep it real as the kids like to say.

No, I never met Manning. I do have experience with young enlisted pers in positions of responsibility and ascribed their traits to him. Maybe he is a mastermind spy or the self sacrificing indivdual some have made him out to be. My bet is that he didn't intend to get caught and end up a brig rat for life. If that is the case then he is surely a dumb kid as it wouldn't take much to figure out who leaked the number of cables that Brad let out. He didn't know what he didn't know about Assange and his motives.
Many on here seem to state as a matter of fact that Assange is a selfless hero, without the faintest idea of his motivations or character.
Keep it real as the kids like to say.

Originally posted by Cablespider
reply to post by pteridine

 

Plea bargains from mentally fit individuals is one thing. Coercing a confession after months of deprivation is another. Any court that allows it is dangerous.

Manning's mental fitness is unknown. Coercing confessions at any time is unacceptable. Courts do not allow coerced confessions.

reply to post by pteridine


I'll take David House's word that he is in fact deteriorating. House is/was? one of the few able to visit Manning. House is now a target of the government for having spoken out about Manning's well being. Is House lying? Not sure. Until more people are allowed in to evaluate Manning's health, I have no choice but believe House.

There's plenty of research and documentation on the type of treatment Manning is receiving. In these conditions, it's guaranteed his mental well being will deteriorate. In short, it's torture. Any consideration for a plea bargain at this point is ludicrous.

You commented on how plea bargains are nothing new. Agreed. My point is this situation has gone beyond the point where a plea could be considered admissible. That opportunity seems to have come and gone.

reply to post by pteridine

Many on here seem to Many on here seem to state as a matter of fact that Assange is a selfless hero, without the faintest idea of his motivations or character.

His motive seem simple enough to me... Free media and truth. Things that lack in the west. We are fast to point at places like china etc are we any better ourselves...No.. and the people here are just as manipulated.
This is meant to be a democratic system not a crime syndicate..
Without truth are opinions are cheap and worthless. Do you think we would have gone to war had we known the truth..

Do you enjoy being lied to, or would you rather improve things..

kd

reply to post by purplemer


Solitary confinement has been shown to induce psychotic illness in many normal human beings. This man isn't a violent criminal who needs to be kept away from others because he might hurt them, it makes no sense to keep him in solitary.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by purplemer

 

Solitary confinement has been shown to induce psychotic illness in many normal human beings. This man isn't a violent criminal who needs to be kept away from others because he might hurt them, it makes no sense to keep him in solitary.

I agree it is sad and inhuman, i think they are doing it so they can break him to say whatever they want him too and use him to break assange...

@ flyersfan , jerico65 , sir mike , pteridine and sundry

Wow just wow , all the sick twisted mentally deranged , pedophile criminal government lapdogs calling manning a traitor here are just astounding , you guys are the enemies of freedom , progress and democracy , don't ever watch my back in a war ever , it'll be a case of friendly fire. You should be in his place since you're all happy with the way he's being treated , seems you'd be happy to receive some of that hospitality too. As some one else here alluded to what better way to encourage a criminal government by allowing it to classify every piece of information IT deems dangerous , any one who exposes it's "classified" crimes will end up like Bradley Manning , considered a traitor to the state. What a wonderful deterrent and impediment to justice. All the oath talk is just bilge water , if you ever told a lie in your entire life you're a flaming hypocrite , what oath of allegiance does the government deserve since passing the Federal Reserve Act , The Gold Reserve Act and The Patriot Act.

I'm forced to deduct that those detracting Manning are army pukes (the worst type of soldier who'll obey any order) or elitist affiliated pigs , both types too mindless or greedy to know right from wrong.The man called Manning exposed a criminal runaway government that is on a path to fascism and you guys call him the traitor , how dare you call yourself americans perish the though. Washington who fought the evil empire of The Rothschilds with their puppet monarchs he would today be considered a rebel and terrorist , he broke the law and committed treason to give you guys the freedom you have today but are forfeiting for security. John F Kennedy was assassinated by this same government you are defending , trying to expose the truth , but I guess if he was exposing the government's nastiness he deserved it according to you guys. Freedom is wasted on you guy's as you have proven that you are nothing but sheep everytime you typed to rationalize manning's incarceration with "oh , he broke his oath" , what's more moral and honorable , breaking an oath to an evil government or doing what is right.

So yes , go ahead and support the nazi fascist government , label The people's Hero Manning a traitor , none of you have the testicles or cojanes to do otherwise. When the revolution picks up you will be labeled an F-er , for failure , fed , fool , f.u.b.a.r

reply to post by purplemer


Then you will vouch for Assange. You will say he is a philanthropist who will become a martyr for his cause of seeking the truth. You will say that he never sold any information or extorted any money for it. You claim that he realizes that he has thrown Manning to the wolves and because he is such a seeker of truth and square shooter, he will assume responsibility for his actions and try to save the good intentioned Manning by sacrificing his noble Assange self.

Originally posted by De La Valletta
@ flyersfan , jerico65 , sir mike , pteridine and sundry

Wow just wow , all the sick twisted mentally deranged , pedophile criminal government lapdogs calling manning a traitor here are just astounding , you guys are the enemies of freedom , progress and democracy , don't ever watch my back in a war ever , it'll be a case of friendly fire. You should be in his place since you're all happy with the way he's being treated , seems you'd be happy to receive some of that hospitality too. As some one else here alluded to what better way to encourage a criminal government by allowing it to classify every piece of information IT deems dangerous , any one who exposes it's "classified" crimes will end up like Bradley Manning , considered a traitor to the state. What a wonderful deterrent and impediment to justice. All the oath talk is just bilge water , if you ever told a lie in your entire life you're a flaming hypocrite , what oath of allegiance does the government deserve since passing the Federal Reserve Act , The Gold Reserve Act and The Patriot Act.

I'm forced to deduct that those detracting Manning are army pukes (the worst type of soldier who'll obey any order) or elitist affiliated pigs , both types too mindless or greedy to know right from wrong.The man called Manning exposed a criminal runaway government that is on a path to fascism and you guys call him the traitor , how dare you call yourself americans perish the though. Washington who fought the evil empire of The Rothschilds with their puppet monarchs he would today be considered a rebel and terrorist , he broke the law and committed treason to give you guys the freedom you have today but are forfeiting for security. John F Kennedy was assassinated by this same government you are defending , trying to expose the truth , but I guess if he was exposing the government's nastiness he deserved it according to you guys. Freedom is wasted on you guy's as you have proven that you are nothing but sheep everytime you typed to rationalize manning's incarceration with "oh , he broke his oath" , what's more moral and honorable , breaking an oath to an evil government or doing what is right.

So yes , go ahead and support the nazi fascist government , label The people's Hero Manning a traitor , none of you have the testicles or cojanes to do otherwise. When the revolution picks up you will be labeled an F-er , for failure , fed , fool , f.u.b.a.r

What a nice sophomoric rant. Anything that starts with the "wow, just wow" of pubescent outrage will surely be entertaining, completely incomprehensible, and laced with Pravda cold-war press release vocabulary. You have not disappointed.
My position is that Assange suckered Manning to do things Manning knew would lead to court martial. Manning may have hoped that he would be viewed a hero by the other rookies and magically get off the hook, or maybe he was convinced that he was such a clever leaker he would somehow escape punishment for releasing classified information. Maybe the President would pardon him for cutting the lines of diplomatic communications so no behind-the-scenes negotiations could occur and the US could have more wars and conflicts. Likely, it seemed like a good idea at the time to Brad the wannabe hero.
Manning was a tool of Assange and will now suffer for being so naive. Too bad, Brad. You wanted to be a hero, now suck it up and play the role. If you had a TV you could watch the several dozen protesters marching around with signs saying "Free Brad Manning." Julian won't be there, Brad. He'll be busy off womanizing somewhere, a REMF if there ever was one in this war to release the truth.
Assange is playing at mysterious spy and folk hero to score with the ladies and maybe make some cash selling info. I do not believe that he is any sort of heroic character and is a simple businessman with an anti-US agenda. I do not think Assange has the spinal tissue to stand up for his actions and expect him to fold and run, if he can, while he ignores Brad Manning while enjoying his fame as a pretend saviour and role model for the other wannabe revolutionaries.One can no longer be uncomfortable while fighting for truth and justice. One needs one's comforts.
As to the rest of your predictably humourous comments, especially what we who disagree will be labelled after the revolution, what revolution? Who will "pick me up?" You? Please do not call me an army puke, Sleeve.

reply to post by Cablespider

The admissibility of a plea will be interesting as to how and where it will be done. Manning is up for court martial in a military court and Assange, if charged, will be in Federal court. Maybe they'll do both in Federal court which may actually help Brad, sentencewise. He may be destined for Leavenworth in either case.

reply to post by pteridine

to pteridine

"What a nice sophomoric rant."

Too old to be a sophomore , oh to be a sophomore once more. Whether it's a rant is relative to your perspective.

It alarms me to no end that there are people that actually are bashing on Brad Manning , it's like i'm in the twilight zone or something. Even so it's still exposing the detritus in our government and army that they are treating him like this , their torturing him , he hasn't had a fair trial and their not even investigating the crimes alluded to in the leaks. If you're military brass I can see why you'd behave how you're behaving though , by all means defend your paradigm.

You think brad betrayed you , but your maggot eaten brain , chewed out by your drill sergeant to turn you into a machine instead of a man has made you lose sight of the big picture. Manning exposed the septic tank/latrine that is the U.S government , not the armed services. The founding fathers stated that when a government becomes unbearable it should be thrown off , yet you guys lick its feet. If they the gov'mt had no malice to bear , those leaks wouldn't have them sh!$ting bricks.

As for manning getting soldiers , diplomats or agents killed through this , America's guts were already being despised and spilled long before this kid popped the top , all he did was confirm all along what people were believing , that america has gone round the bend and back again , because too many like you see evil and keep mum about it "oh , I took an oath".That's why I say I wouldn't want any of you watching my back in war, ranking officer or brass in Washington is proven to be engaging in illegal activity , you got proof to put the suckers away for life but because it was classified you'd say , "oh , I took an oath."

I would sincerely hope that these wars of agression will end and our boys and girls come home , all their doing is securing assets for corporations who'll just outsource jobs to china , india , eastern europe , haiti , mexico or africa to get sweatshop labor.

"One can no longer be uncomfortable while fighting for truth and justice. One needs one's comforts."

well if it takes being uncomfortable to fight for truth and justice , so be it , i'll die on my feet a free man than grovel in the mud a slave. comfort in a fascist state I can do without. Again shows you trading freedom for security.

"Assange is playing at mysterious spy and folk hero to score with the ladies and maybe make some cash selling info."

Assange can take a long walk off a short cliff he's not on my topic list , lets address manning , he's who the thread is about

"On August 1775,King George III declared Americans in arms against royal authority to be traitors to the Crown." Thus they the founding fathers and patriots committed treasonous acts , which led to the birth of america. Now you want to whine about some kid having a conscience and trying to expose the skeletons in the closet. I just don't get the double standards fellow american. When the neuremberg trials were going on the allies and the U.N executed scores of german soldiers who claimed they were just following orders which you keep screemin brady boy should have done. The Allies and U.N replied something along the lines that they knew the acts were wrong and that if they knew they were following illegal orders they should'nt have followed them and reported the officer who gave them such orders. Essentially telling the officer he should have committed suicide as disobeying a direct order could have got him shot , court-martialed or severely ostricized him. Now because manning could'nt find any trustworthy people in the service he had to go viral outside

As for the revolution , sigh , I can dream can't I. Sadly I must admit that I don't see americans executing one in the near future. Too complacent , too ignorant , too fat and dumbed down. The Patriots we are not and if their more establishment yes-men like you where you come from Bush's NWO will that much easier for him to achieve.

reply to post by De La Valletta


Without Assange there is no story. Manning would have had no outlet for his fantasy of being important. You feel bad for Brad because you think he had good intentions and is now being punished for them. Brad didn't know what he didn't know, violated the law, and now will have to pay the consequences.
Your first post was definitely a sophomoric rant and so is your last. I found the term "maggot-eaten brain" predictable and diagnostic of "sophomoric." I also liked the part when you nobly stated "i'll die on my feet a free man than grovel in the mud a slave. comfort in a fascist state I can do without." Talk is cheap, as you have shown. Why don't you leave and find a place where you can be a "free man?" This fascist state must be hard on you and surely you are talented enough to fnd a gig writing diatribes for some school newspaper, somewhere.
I also note you are dreaming of a revolution. You really don't have a clue about this do you? Undoubtedly you have never been in any combat other than in the video games Mommy bought for you. In your fantasy revolutionary America what is your role? Are you the noble martyr or the fearless leader who sheds not a tear for the many thousands who would be sacrificed for your astute vision. Do you and Brad share a fantasy of being important and noble without personal danger? It must be the video games.
Brad screwed up. Some of the cables he released listed many important terrorism targets. What will happen when people are killed because of Brad's "heroism?" Brad would then be resonsible for the deaths and damage. This is called "unintended consequences" but Brad didn't think about that.

The world is not a computer game that can be rebooted when you screw up.

I don't think Manning is a 'dumb kid.'
First, you don't go into that MOS and not have a high test score.
Second, did you see the reading materials he requested?
His magazine pick was Scientific American?

Not Discover, not Popular Science, but Scientific American.

There's no way he's a dumb kid.

He might have some personal type issues, and need attention, IE that's why he talked to Lamo. (IF he DID talk to Lamo.) IF that's the case, knowing that, that is probably why they put him in solitary confinement.

reply to post by pteridine


I can only vouch for myself as a human being.... Having said that after watching his interviews about free pres he does seem to have a fair point.
Do you think mannings and assange have acted wrong? What would you do if you saw high level corruption in a 'free government' and the was no legal way of dealing with it...?

reply to post by hadriana


By 'dumb kid' I did not mean stupid, I meant inexperienced. He didn't realize that he was merely a tool of Assange, that he wasn't going to be a superhero, that he was going to get caught. His MOS certainly requires a high level of intelligence but maturity is not measured on the GCT/ARI.

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by pteridine

 

I can only vouch for myself as a human being.... Having said that after watching his interviews about free pres he does seem to have a fair point.
Do you think mannings and assange have acted wrong? What would you do if you saw high level corruption in a 'free government' and the was no legal way of dealing with it...?

Assange took advantage of Manning. Manning broke the laws and will suffer for it while Assange enjoys his status as a folk hero, of sorts. Assange's actions are self serving, in my opinion, to make Assange important and maybe wealthy, too.
Manning's access to high level information was severely limited as was his concept of 'high level corruption.' How does a cable showing key targets for terror attacks show high level corrution? Did Manning look at any of the stuff passed on? Apparently not. Did Assange care that he put people in jeopardy? He could have put other embarrassing materials on the web without jeopardizing lives. Assange is a self-serving egomaniac. Brad is just a dumb kid that got suckered.

Good-bye Brad. Enjoy your lifetime subscription to SciAm.

reply to post by pteridine

How did assange take advantage. Noone knows what was said between the two. That is making a big assumption.

As for putting life in jeporday is it not possible that more lifes will be saved in the long run..Is not two illegal wars and millions dead not putting peoples lifes in jepordy.. Is it not high time someone started putting international security before national securtity before we completly bugger everything up...
As to my question in my last post if you have time plz answer...

kx