Realistically. Projected time for collapse of dollar?

Originally posted by samkent
People have been predicting economic doom and gloom year after year. It just doesn’t happen. Things change, the economy expands and it contracts. Yes the dollar appears to be on a downward slope in the long run. But it’s far from a collapse.

Actually.........IMHO those folks in 2005 were correct and way ahead of the pack. News was collapse was imminent and the President was being warned we were hours from a need for Martial Law declaration. The collapse was artificially stopped to our everlasting detriment now that it is apparent that the theft and looting has been allowed to reach magnitudes higher.

Now sure one can ride the big boys coat-tails but just as in Vegas make sure its money that you can afford to lose. Most can't afford this as the money is tied up in vulnerable 401K's, savings or their house.

I too used to believe in riding the market and did so after dot-com crash as I bought much as I could at discount prices - looking at the lack of structural underpinnings currently there's no way I'd touch with 10' foot pole now.

Its Crime Inc. unchecked and unfettered.

Originally posted by samkent
To those who live a more self-sufficient lifestyle, I applaud you.
To those who stock pile cans of veggies and gold bars, get a grip.

I'm OK with you believing the above just as long as you don't try to get a grip on my veggies or anyone else's for that matter if you are wrong!

Originally posted by samkent

People are not investing with good reasons, everyone is cashing in their dollars for gold and most smart people knows that we're on a path of no return.

Totally baseless. Your view of the financial world is so far askew it’s dangerous. Very few are cashing in their dollars.

Just look at the tv ads “Bring us your gold for immediate cash!”

The only ones cashing in for gold are those with the “survivalists” beliefs. And those are people who are not equipped to function in today’s society. And those who are “not investing for good reasons” are losing out on profits in the markets.

Paper profits....Highly digestable ! If money is worthless,doubling your money doesn't mean much.

To the person pointing out those who cried wolf back in 2005(and earlier than that, for that matter), well the only thing they seem to have gotten wrong is the timing. It has been a slower and more controlled decline than many of us thought. Like Phoenix said, it should have and could have collapsed in '08 but the PTB are smarter than the average bear, they went with plan B-controlled burn. More money to be made until the gig is up!

But clearly, the gig will be up one of these days, and the way it has been orchestrated, I'd say 2012-2013. Just feels like they can stretch the wealth grab a couple more years, and transition into new currency wiping out all the debt and starting over. How convenient (that's my guess, at least).

Add to this an extravagant terror plot and they could change our lives in a moment's notice, especially if the plot hits a building that housed all kinds of documents that could prove anything (think 911, IRS files, CIA stuff-remember all that was destroyed in those important buildings?).

Canned food lasts up to 7 years!

Originally posted by d00d557
My question to you guys is, how long do you REALLY think it will be until SHTF?

Our Federal Government does not have enough Revenue to fund it's liabilities/or to even function.

Congress refused to pass a budget. The Printing Press is the only thing funded Society right now.

The only reason we have a Society right now is because we have a military to force other countries to accept our currency. That military has been getting cut, and cut, and cut, and more cuts are coming.

We ARE at SHTF. Saudi Arabia 24 months ago was saying they were going to CEASE accepting our currency and start the Gulf Monetary Union...but then our CIA got Barrack into power to appease Saudi and gave them a Victory Mosque so we can keep getting oil from them.

The sole reason New England is getting all those natural gas wells put in, even though it is destroying their water table...is to keep Society going. We're living thru SHTF. If you live where those Natural Gas wells are being put up....build yourself a rain water collection system to store water.

If Barrack cuts the military much more we won't have anything to back our currency.

Originally posted by samkent

The only ones cashing in for gold are those with the “survivalists” beliefs. And those are people who are not equipped to function in today’s society. And those who are “not investing for good reasons” are losing out on profits in the markets.

Soro's Gold Holdings

Securities and Exchange Commission filings this month by Soros Fund Management LLC, Paulson & Co. and Touradji Capital Management LP listed investments in gold as their biggest holdings. ...

You know I never liked ol' George, come to find out he's a "crazy survivalist" not equipped to function in today's society and to think all the profits he's now missing out on golly geez who would'a thunk it!

and he keeps meddling politically too! What's up with that?



Was it PT Barnum who said "sucker born everyday" or was it another Circus dude - Yup Circus that's what's going on!

Best watch who's betting against ya!

Pssst - shhh.....do you think George know's something we don't?

Phoenix

Im not sure when it will happen. How ever I think it only right that we all make some kind of preperations. My thoughts are that TPTB, will instigate a world wide war and then they will all retreat, into their bunkers. Leaving us normal people, to fight over the scraps that are left. Time ? 3to 5 yrs seems about right to me. They have not been building seed banks and DUMBs for nothing. All the time lying to us, whilst they stock their bunkers. Using our money and supplys. I think the leaders of the world are all in it togeather. They have bunkers built in every country for the elite types. I shall just keep building my own stocks of food, medicine and weapons. Hopeing for the best but expecting the worst.

The only reason we have a Society right now is because we have a military to force other countries to accept our currency.

So explain how our military is forcing China to buy our bonds? People are making this stuff up.

Paper profits....Highly digestable ! If money is worthless,doubling your money doesn't mean much.

So Warren Buffet and his group are going to be left penniless? Or do you think he will be walking down the street pushing a shopping cart filled with gold?

If money is going to be worthless then so will be property rights. How will you protect your gold? Roving gangs will take what they want. You won’t be able to stand guard over your house 24/7.

Look the world economy is shifting. As manufacturing shift to Asia so will wealth. The western standard of living (wages) will have to drop. Eventually things will reach equilibrium. But that doesn’t mean paper currency will be worthless. The nice thing about the stock market is you can make money on the way up as well as on the way down.

The only reason we have a Society right now is because we have a military to force other countries to accept our currency.

Our military isn't forcing any country to use our currency. But, yes the only reason we do have a society here right now is because the US dollar is the world reserve currency. Countries are not being forced into using it. They just have so much of it that its impossible to just stop using it cold turkey to avoid their own economy from crashing. So what they are doing is weening off of it slowly.

In all honesty I find it hard to believe that this country will make it our of 2011 without something major happening. Maybe not a complete collapse, but definitely a market crash and social unrest, with the complete collapse coming sometime in 2012.

You know I never liked ol' George, come to find out he's a "crazy survivalist" not equipped to function in today's society and to think all the profits he's now missing out on golly geez who would'a thunk it!

You need to do a little research before coming to conclusions.
His gold is in paper and amounts to less than 9% of the total fund.

Here is the SEC filing.

It doesn't sound like he's preparing for the end of the world to me.

Originally posted by illuminnaughty
Im not sure when it will happen. How ever I think it only right that we all make some kind of preperations. My thoughts are that TPTB, will instigate a world wide war and then they will all retreat, into their bunkers. Leaving us normal people, to fight over the scraps that are left. Time ? 3to 5 yrs seems about right to me. They have not been building seed banks and DUMBs for nothing. All the time lying to us, whilst they stock their bunkers. Using our money and supplys. I think the leaders of the world are all in it togeather. They have bunkers built in every country for the elite types. I shall just keep building my own stocks of food, medicine and weapons. Hopeing for the best but expecting the worst.

I'm with this guy.

reply to post by samkent

You need to do a little research before coming to conclusions. His gold is in paper and amounts to less than 9% of the total fund.

Actually Daddy bush's gold is in the ground where he is busy mining it...

Mr. Bush served in an honorary capacity as an advisor to Barrick’s International Advisory Board for two years in the mid 1990’s. Mr. Bush was neither a director nor officer of the Company.
www.barrick.com...

George Bush Sr. (past senior advisor): George Bush was on board around the time that Barrick paid the US Treasury less than $10,000 to acquired a Nevada mine (on Western Shoshone traditional land) containing $10 billion in gold. The US Secretary of the Interior Bruce Babbitt called this deal, "the biggest gold heist since the days of Butch Cassidy," and "a form of legalized extortion."


...Barrick Gold Corporation, the largest pure gold mining company in the world, is headquartered in Toronto, Canada. It has four regional business units (RBU's) located in Australia, Africa, North America, and South America. Barrick is currently undertaking mining and exploration projects in Papua New Guinea, the United States, Canada, Australia, Peru, Chile, Russia, South Africa, Argentina, and Tanzania. On January 20, 2006, Barrick acquired a majority share of Placer Dome. The production of the combined organization moved Barrick to its current position as the largest gold producer, ahead of Newmont Mining Corporation...

www.crocodyl.org...

One wonders what other deals are going on that are not public.

reply to post by samkent


samkent,

From the response's so far nobody is buying "confidence" anymore - face it that dog just won't hunt at all. To many have been snookered in to believe in market integrity anymore. As an aside look at percentage drop in consumer debt on an annualized basis for the last reported quarter - there is your confidence!

Now I know if just enough could be convinced to go back in to the market then all would be right again, yeah right! kinda like the last people in on the pyramid scheme - closer to the top and earlier you were in the better off you are - do have that right? We need more sacrifice at the alter please!!!!

Soro's $600,000,000 is just a minor measly itty bitty bit of an investment made after he proclaimed a gold bubble hmmmmm. Lest we forget his other 705,000 call options that most likely we will find to be exercised in next quarterly filing.

Soro's is not the real subject though, a market downfall and possibly ways one can protect against it is. One way is to hedge in precious metals which will traditionally keep your cash equivalent in an inflationary economy.

Please tell me you don't buy the CPI as published - maintain some credibility.

IMHO you are attempting to mislead people away from safety and into danger, more than likely people who can least afford to "play" why? I can understand if you have money to lose and that's your business but the OP here is not in any position to play ponzi with you.

Maybe it would be more instructive to tell folks when to get out of the market on timing if you are actually making any money at the market - that's the key isn't it? Knowing when to walk away from a gamble - most don't.

To the OP,

An analogy,

Thelma and Louise had a time early in the flood of debt where if they went faster they might have skipped across, yes they would have got wet, the car may even have stalled but they probably would have made it across.

Now that the flood of debt has dug a canyon so deep if Thelma and Louise speed up they will impact the far wall, if they slow down even to twenty the drop is to deep to survive.

Just like watching Thelma and Louise, one knows the only way to survive is to jump out of that car before its to late.

How long will you ride in that car!


Prepare as much as you possibly can is the only advice I can give.

Look around, study the issues, study history, get information and not just here at ATS. I think you may find we are in a very very fragile state of decline that can change overnight with a 911 level event, a war, a major interruption of oil supply, an economic event and a myriad of other cause's - we do not have the where with all to take any event at all under the current circumstances - believing that things will just cook along as they are is pollyannish.

History bears this out.

IMHO you are attempting to mislead people away from safety and into danger, more than likely people who can least afford to "play" why? I can understand if you have money to lose and that's your business but the OP here is not in any position to play ponzi with you.

Maybe it would be more instructive to tell folks when to get out of the market on timing if you are actually making any money at the market - that's the key isn't it? Knowing when to walk away from a gamble - most don't.

See there’s your flaw. You are not supposed to marry yourself to a stock or stocks. The days of buy and hold went out with the 90’s. You have to look at each stock on its own merits. I don’t day trade but I don’t plan on keeping a stock for more than a few weeks either. There’s always stocks going up and others going down. And you don’t need an expensive broker to figure out which ones.

reply to post by samkent


See there's your flaw, and a big reason for the coming collapse, constant manipulation of assets.
The common people may not be as smart as you at the markets, but we know right from wrong. And the way the market is played now, is wrong and worse than Vegas. At least in Vegas we know we are going to lose our money, they tell you it is a game of chance right at the door.

Originally posted by SunnyDee
reply to post by samkent

 

See there's your flaw, and a big reason for the coming collapse, constant manipulation of assets.
The common people may not be as smart as you at the markets, but we know right from wrong. And the way the market is played now, is wrong and worse than Vegas. At least in Vegas we know we are going to lose our money, they tell you it is a game of chance right at the door.

Completely agree, and you add in nazi practise such as TSA, gun control, small farm control, livestock control, medical control, employment control. Your economic confidence goes out the door, people hear of banks falling to their knees, well they want their money and a run of the bank is highly possible. Unfortuantely that makes the dollar even less desireable, that includes currency across the globe.

Manipulating markets by quick asset trading causes good hard working companies to lose out to penny on the dollar slave labor companies that you buy in cheap and they turn a huge profit. Those companies will not be able to function as soon as the consumer loses their pants and food prices take a hike in the upwards direction. Naturally consumers throttle back and start pushing more funding into their necessities instead of their wants. The problem with americans is they will pick up debt to keep supplying the "wants". Wit htaht being said, the normal US consumer put the shackles on themselves by purchasing large amounts of personal debt to keep their high living conditions. The bankers didnt even have to push anything, just invent new ways of debt control through credit.

The house of cards are falling, you can stand ontop of them and claim nothing is happening, or you can stay below it and keep buying up debt, either way, we will all be in the pile of rubble in the end.

I do believe that TPTB have to know something we dont, the way they are borrowing with no way to pay it off, sort of like the guy on the movie Armageddon , takes out a huge loan with huge points added on with no way to pay it back because he knows there is a good chance the world is gonna end and it wont matter. Thats how these guys are acting, there will be no payback, but why is the big question.

But in the end, the US isnt going anywhere, not in this lifetime, if we do, it means the world as we know it is over anyways for everyone plain and simple. Any "new" currency will be moot, as it will just be dollar 2.0, give it any name you wish, put a pretty new picture on it, its dollar 2.0 and will still be the US that backs and provides said currency. The powers that be have chosen their sides already and I dont know about you, but picking the side that has the most advanced military in the world or creating said military for your side is a good start. This wasnt by chance the US is where it is today, it was by design and if the plan fails, taking everyone out would be the last thing left and it would be easy to pull that one off as we all know unfortunately.

Now Im not saying I like this, agree with this or hope for it, but this is how it is. The elite have basically collected all the wealth already in the world. They control just about everything. What happens at this point is what ever the next step in their plan is, there will not be some uncontrolled collapse. It will either collapse the way they planned or rebound the direction they steer it.

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
the us dollar is due for a cyclical low in march 2011 then a counter trend rally which could coincide with a slide in the euro currency. this could last until the summer then the us dollar will probably roll over and in sep of next year and accelerate into oct-nov. watch the bond market to collapse and interest rates rise dramatically. the stock market will sell off with the higher interest rates and so will gold and other precious metals (esp those w an industrial use). the higher interest rates will support the dollar for a final rally (while gold falls)....and then, suddenly, arnd mch 2012 the dollar will continue down. taking bonds with it and gold will rally despite the higher interest rates....the culmination will be not in dec, 2012 but mch 2013.
my 2cts worse, fwiw.

I agree the US interest rate/dollar valuation is likely to be the war zone to watch.

Interest rates will need to rise sometime when inflation appears and that seems to be premiering in the UK.

Big player unknowns are the rest of Europe and China. Large defaults on loans or over stimulation in Asia or Europe would tend to increase the relative US interest rate return, raising the value of the US dollar. Vice versa any big Fed or Obama stimulus package would crash the US dollar value.

There may be a global strategic plan in place that allows for some short term dollar drops, but logically this would be choreographed like musical chairs.

Each country gets its fair share of media exposure. The economic recovery is simply choreographed as the reverse of the fall. As interest rates are raised in stages by each participant, their currency valuation increases in lock step. Their stock markets are given time to stabilize competing with the higher interest rates between stages.

reply to post by Eavel


Your timeline is much more realistic than others on this thread. We started preparing 8 years ago when we bought our ranch. Stock up now and get to know your neighbors if you don't already. Time to come together as a community. Fortunately, we are 100 miles from any major cities so aren't too worried about the roving bands. We are all very well-armed around here and it isn't all about deer hunting!

reply to post by crimvelvet


Hey buddy watch where you finger point:

I can just hear the Liberals SCREAMING as all their nice little social programs are trashed. The same programs that bankrupted the US in the first place.

You have been watching too much Fox News, social programs are not bankrupting this country. Discretionary spending is 1.6 Trillion dollars (most of it it "Defense") and the social programs are about 1.4 Trillion. What would you prefer, we cut social programs and starve our our citizens to death or we cut Defense spending and stop killing people on the other side of the world? Get your head on right bro

reply to post by Pervius


WHAT? Obama cutting Millitary spending? What administration have you been looking at he just APPROVED a 128 Billion more than last year! What "cuts" are you talking about?

The legislation, passed by 341 votes to 48 on Friday, authorizes the Defense Department to spend nearly $160 billion on overseas combat missions in fiscal year 2011 without major restrictions on the conduct of operations, the Associated Press reported.

The figure is higher than the $128 billion budget for fiscal year 2010.

The official cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan has now surpassed $1.1 trillion.

www.presstv.ir...

For ATS to be "denying ignorance" I'm sure finding way too much of it in this thread.