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God and the Three O's

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posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 06:08 PM
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I have only very recently been a member of ATS and decided to post something which has puzzled me ever since I was a child. Please accept my apology if this has been discussed on ATS before.

Now we are taught as far as the bible is concerned that God is Omnipresent, Omnipotent and Omniscient. Now taking this into consideration and the teachings of creation, I do not understand that a God who supposedly has the power to be everywhere at the same time, unlimited authority and power, and complete awareness and understanding of all things, to even create the world in the first place.

According to Genesis, God placed an apple tree in the Garden of Eden and told both Adam and Eve that they could eat of any tree, but they were not allowed to eat the fruit of this particular tree.

Now what I do not understand is the fact that before God even placed this particular fruit tree in the garden, he must have known that Eve was going to eat of the tree anyway, due to his complete awareness and understanding of all things.

This I do not understand. Why did God go to all the trouble of spending time creating a world when he knew full well that it was going to be disrupted by a being he had created anyway? It is a bit like hitting yourself over the head with a mallet when you know that it is going to hurt you anyway.

Would love to know what people’s thoughts are on this subject which after 45 years still doesn’t make any sense to me whatsoever.




posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 06:18 PM
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reply to post by davethebear
 


Simple answer is it is a made up story. No truth to the matter whatsoever! That is why it does not make sense! I suppose it made up to teach us something though!



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by davethebear
 


Hey dave, I too wondered about this and did a thread a while back that had some interesting input you might get something from: Here
To me, it confirms an allegory more than a literal event, and I personally wonder if the Eve taking the bite is a patriarch movement, a power myth used to belittle or disempower women.
I believe there could be a god...but I don't buy words from men who try to speak for god.

peace,
spec
edit on 16-12-2010 by speculativeoptimist because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 06:43 PM
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In philosophy this is called the problem of divine foreknowledge.
There has of course, been no conclusive solution to this problem, but many philosophers have offered some very intriguing theories. Robert Kane's, 'Contemporary Introduction to Free Will' has an entire chapter devoted to this subject, and covers theories from Thomas Aquinas, William of Ockham, Luis de Molina, all the way to contemporary philosophers such as Alfred North Whitehead and Robert Kane, himself.
Feel free to u2u me, as I happen to have a copy of this particular chapter as a .pdf.
A very interesting theory that claims to have found a solution to this problem is called, 'Open Theism.' Wikipedia happens to have a pretty good page on this subject, yet the theory itself poses some problems for traditional theists. There are entire college courses devoted to this subject; it is a lot of fun!
Take Care!



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by speculativeoptimist
reply to post by davethebear
 


Hey dave, I too wondered about this and did a thread a while back that had some interesting input you might get something from: Here
To me, it confirms an allegory more than a literal event, and I personally wonder if the Eve taking the bite is a patriarch movement, a power myth used to belittle or disempower women.
I believe there could be a god...but I don't buy words from men who try to speak for god.

peace,
spec
edit on 16-12-2010 by speculativeoptimist because: (no reason given)



Thanks for that Spec..........I have no religious beliefs, personally, but I have pondered over this for years. Doesn't make sense to me how people can believe in a being such as God when he doesn't seem to be any brighter or intelligent than what anybody else is, considering all the work he supposedly went to and knew all the time that all his hard work was all going to be ruined.

I will certainly check out the link that you sent me and see what responses you had.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by davethebear
 


I hear ya and I guess more specific to your post is the notion of free will, as kissy mentioned. That is the classic response to why would god allows such madness down here. I am unsure too and would consider myself more spiritual than religious, which loosens things up a bit but still acknowledges a potential "creator." I think of god more as a force than an entity. Kind of like the Native American's "spirit that moves in all things," or the Chinese Tao, or even the Hindu Brahma. The humanistic attachments are our doing, imo, for whatever relatable reasons.

Peace,
spec



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by davethebear
 


Well either

A) The Bible is a series of folk tales mashed together and meant to be taken not in a literal sense but as a series of fables to draw knowledge and inspiration from or

B) God is a giant douche



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by davethebear
 


There were different words for God in the orriginal bible texts. The God of the three o's did not create the tree or humans. The human creator was probably an alien and was not a three o kind of guy.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 07:41 PM
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reply to post by davethebear
 
davethebear,

God is omniscient, knowing the end from the begining. He is omnipresent, there is nowhere but He is present in the total of the creation because He is Spirit. He is omnipotent, has all power, nothing is beyond His power.

Since He knew if He created totally "free" beings there would be a time rebellion would rise up in one of them. So before anything He brought forth of Himself Our Redeemer. He brought Him forth to be His equal also being able to also state "I Am the first and the last". They are of one substance. This Redeemer wrote the "Lambs book of life before the foundaton of the world", which when the seventh seal is taken off will prove that He also is omniscient. All creation was done also by the Redeemer.

Re 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

He is brought to view in relationship to the Father in this verse. Notice "his redeemer" and the statement "I am the first, and I am the last", and then "beside me there is no God".

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Rebellion did rise up and the highest angel was the one as he aspired to be equal to God, his creator, the Redeemer. That is the reason He has the title "LORD of Hosts", angels and us came about by Him. It was known He would have to come and dwell in a man and shed His Blood before all or anything. That's why the expression "slain from the foundation of the world". When the Redeemer has completed all that He is to accomplish, here are some verses to explain that. Read them carefully and make sure you are catching the thougts.

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.( He is reigning now )
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. ( Father is excepted )
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Jesus Christ as we know Him is the reigning King now and always has been as this whole thing is His responsibility from get go. He also comes to us by His Spirit, known as the Comforter. He will come and dwell in us and this is the hope of Glory

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

You need to understand now with He within Satan and the evil ones of Him have no power over you as they see Him in you and all you need do is use your will and resist them. You now can have the victory that overcomes the world and Satan.

Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

I'm going to stop here as more may be further than one can go at one time. I'll try to answer any further questions you may have.

Truthiron.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 08:08 PM
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reply to post by truthiron
 


Hello- I think you may have misunderstood the argument. It follows something like this:
1. God believed, at some time before we were born, that our present actions would occur.
2. God's beliefs cannot be mistaken.
3. It must be the case that if God believed, at some time before we were born, that our present actions would occur and God's beliefs cannot be mistaken, then our present actions will occur.
4. There is nothing we can do now to change the fact that God believed, at some time before we were born, that our present actions would occur.
5. There is nothing we can do to change the fact that God's beliefs cannot be mistaken.
6. There is nothing we can do to change the fact that if God believed, at some time before we were born, that our present actions would occur and God's beliefs cannot be mistaken, then our present actions occur.
7. Therefore there is nothing we can now do to change the fact that our present actions occur.
In short, if God has foreknown what we will do, then we cannot do otherwise than we actually do (e.g., 'sin,' or anything else, for that matter).
This argument is puzzling for theists, as if it is true that God endowed human beings with free-will, then free will is incompatible with God's three O's....

xox
edit on 16-12-2010 by kissy princess because: spelling mistake



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 08:26 PM
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reply to post by kissy princess
 
kissy princess,

No I didn't misunderstand the post, many need the answer I gave and it is all being done to finally prove even though He knows the end from the beginning all have chosen their fate and all will bow the knee and confess that before it is all over. I'd have to write a book to explain it fully so folks need to do some work with it when some guide verses and explanations are given. Don't you know you are free to do what you want, it's the laws of the land that may interfere but not God. He wants those who do right freely not under coercion.

Truthiron.



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