Sexist Female Oppression? Cleavage In The Workplace

I haven't read past the 3rd page of this post, I just don't have the time, or honestly, the desire to continue to read the excuses from women for dressing inappropriately in the work place.

I call BS on the "they're too hard to cover up" line. It's simply not true, and if you can't cover them, you're wearing the wrong clothes.

I've been wearing a bra since 2nd grade. In 9th grade I was a D cup and at age 33, 4 kids later, I am a G. I am 5'2 and wear a size 6 jean. My point is, I'm not big busted because I'm overweight, or anything like that. I'm trying to paint a picture here.

Right now, I'm sitting at work, in a V-neck sweater, and a PROPERLY FITTED bra and not one bit of cleavage is showing. I'm dressed femininely and still in an appropriate fashion for work.

It has been my experience that when I simply "couldn't" cover them up, I was wearing the wrong size bra, or a top that didn't fit correctly.

Women and men both need to seek out clothes not only appropriate for their place of work, but for their own body. Clothes are not one size fits all and if you can't find a shirt to fit your ta-tas, you're shopping in the wrong store.

There is a time and place for every outfit, and the truth is, your employer decides if your cleavage is appropriate or not, not you.

reply to post by Traydor

yes, humor me. i'm one of the people in the thread you were addressing in that post. i've been arguing the position that being too strict about women's cleavage in the work place, is probably the result of perception and projection. (and the occassional example where a woman tries to use it to her advantage). that the end result of all this perception and projection and occassional breast gone awry, is to force women to cover them more and more conservatively, till now we are seeing women having them mangled with surgery to keep from offending others or being unfairly advanced/passed over as a result of their size.

People didn't used to mind so much if their secretaries or woman office workers showed a little. Then came the whole mess of sexual harrassment lawsuits, that changed the ballgame altogether. People don't want themselves, and other employees to get caught up in some false lawsuit, understandable. Now if you worked for me, and wanted to dress less than professional, I would say OK, after you sign a waiver.

reply to post by undo


I will not 'humor' you. You clearly have a prosecution complex and is completely incapable of explaining yourself when you have been caught out (and i mean in you explaining on how you think i was threatening you).

This is the last time i will reply to you and if you make any more false accusations i will have you reported.

Originally posted by TKDRL
People didn't used to mind so much if their secretaries or woman office workers showed a little. Then came the whole mess of sexual harrassment lawsuits, that changed the ballgame altogether. People don't want themselves, and other employees to get caught up in some false lawsuit, understandable. Now if you worked for me, and wanted to dress less than professional, I would say OK, after you sign a waiver.

Really? I'm 64. That is BS.

The reason there weren't any sexual harassment cases - - is because there were no laws against it. An employer could fire an employee for any reason - - including rejecting his advances.

Did you know airline stewardesses had to wear girdles - - so they didn't jiggle?

One place I worked - - they could fire you for having a run in your nylons - - which were required dress code. So - you kept extra pairs in your desk drawer.

Originally posted by undo
. . . . till now we are seeing women having them mangled with surgery to keep from offending others or being unfairly advanced/passed over as a result of their size.

I find this to be a very offensive sexist remark. "Mangled with Surgery"?

It is an elective surgery. No one is forcing any woman to have breast reduction.

Most reductions are done for medical reasons - - strained back - - strained muscles. Breasts can be very heavy.

Originally posted by undo
k, your shape is down there. women have a down there shape too. we aren't talking about the down there shape. we're talking about the chest area, mammary gland cleavage,

Then why do YOU keep bringing up lips, etc. I'm getting the feeling this is just an argument for the sake of it. Many others and I have blown this out of the water. I'm not going to argue for the sake of it. The reader sees the point if others will not.

reply to post by undo



Heheh and I on the other hand am not conservative at all, I am actually very liberal and I'm all for freedom of expression. However, whether you explain our mammary glands scientifically or not, it really doesn't change the fact that throughout the world they are regarded as sexual objects. Being such they will provoke unintended reactions where such reactions are really not needed, I hope you agree there.

A buttoned up professional shirt will show just as much shape and make a woman feel comfortable and sexy, I know my wife looks sexy as hell and still looks professional.

Yes there is no dress code at her work apart from common sense. That doesn't mean I could walk in there, ready to work, and pull a Will Ferrell, wearing American flag painted Speedo. I can't? Why? But I'm patriotic and also proud to be a man...

Khar

reply to post by Traydor


okay, i'll explain it one more time. you said "YOU" and were referring to ladies (including the op), and followed that up with the threat that such people are easily replaced in their jobs. the minute you start suggesting replacing people in their jobs due to their view point on clothing is when you've gone from the discussing the issue to threats, or rather, suggestive threats. hopeful threats, perhaps ? you aren't making any concessions to the op's position that the boss in question doesn't even have a dress code listed, and that the definition of acceptable attire is so fluid, that you would never be the wiser as to why you weren't promoted, particularly if he happened to find one type of cleavage less offensive than another or made the excuse of cleavage for some and not for others. in other words, the boss in her scenario, needs to a written dress code.

reply to post by intrepid


lips were a reference to other parts of the body being sensitive, frequently employed during sex, that actually are not sex organs in the strictest sense of the word, and yet we don't cover them up.

whereas the other example seems to suggest that if we must compare, the only available comparison is penis or breasts ,when in fact, ladies have a penis equivalent just as men have a mammary equivalent.

Originally posted by Annee
Really? I'm 64. That is BS.

The reason there weren't any sexual harassment cases - - is because there were no laws against it. An employer could fire an employee for any reason - - including rejecting his advances.

Did you know airline stewardesses had to wear girdles - - so they didn't jiggle?

One place I worked - - they could fire you for having a run in your nylons - - which were required dress code. So - you kept extra pairs in your desk drawer.

See now these situations i would happily call oppression, the word is most certainly justified in it's use for these situations. I take major issue in such a powerful word being misused for topics like this thread because it really reduces the words power and purpose. Basically people who call themselves feminists (yes you tater and others) know the power of the word and use it to change the world to their preferred shape. However by doing this they weaken the position of feminists, they give ammunition to chauvinists and basically make a mockery of the women who came before them who fought for equality and got laws passed to ensure it.

Originally posted by undo

whereas the other example seems to suggest that if we must compare, the only available comparison is penis or breasts ,when in fact, ladies have a penis equivalent just as men have a mammary equivalent.

Its not the only example.

I happen to be turned on by "solid on the ground" men. I am turned on by solid built stocky men. I like strong shoulders and legs. I also like beards.

If a man like this wore tight fitting shirts and pants - - it would be a distraction for me. If he wore shorts - - it would not be his penis I'd be looking at.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
However by doing this they weaken the position of feminists, they give ammunition to chauvinists and basically make a mockery of the women who came before them who fought for equality and got laws passed to ensure it.

YES!!!!!!! Absolutely!!!!!

The simplest things such as girls playing sports - - - is lost on those who were not part of the struggle for equality.

Today - - girls sports - - is fully accepted - - like its always been that way. It hasn't.

reply to post by Annee


Yup, like women's hockey. Maybe we should allow cleavage there too. Might be a bit of a health risk though. Hockey is a contact sport. Sorry about using Team Canada. What can I say? I'm a Canuck.

reply to post by Annee


this would seem to suggest that bosses will never again play fast and loose with the defintion of acceptable attire. let's say he's black and doesn't like oriental people but has to have a few in his employ due to equal opportunity laws for his per capita location, he can just make stuff up to promote others instead of an oriental female, to his heart's content, with no oversight, if he doesn't have a dress code spelled out specifically. and it would have to be pretty darn specific to make sure it also made contingencies for women with "inherently obscene" breast sizes.

Originally posted by undo
let's say...

Let's don't. Reality works so much better than hypothetical nonsense.

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by Annee

 

Yup, like women's hockey. Maybe we should allow cleavage there too. Might be a bit of a health risk though. Hockey is a contact sport. Sorry about using Team Canada. What can I say? I'm a Canuck.

Hey! Canuck! My son-in-law is from Kelowna.

Hey - men wear cups - - women wear sports bras (and I think they now have special protective bras).

reply to post by Annee

Like me, you'd remember the days when some employers liked to have a woman or two displaying their bootie. But that tended to be because they regarded the workers concerned as eye-candy, and were more interested in getting an eyeful than having a competant worker. And some bosses did it as an ownership thing, to show off and make other men jealous.

Back then, as you pointed out, there was no legal protection from sexual harassment.
In one early job I had, the floor supervisers, all male, each took their pick from the floor workers, all female, and if the chosen woman refused sex, she was fired. I was lucky enough to be able to just lead the guy on, supposedly preparing his office, while I utilised his phone and got myself a better job.

That was Hanimex, Brookvale, (NSW), 1973, and women there could dress as scantily as they liked. Unsurprisingly, most of us dressed rather modestly.

I'm wondering if some women want to go back to those times.

We all know the power a display of uncovered breast gives a woman over men.
However a smart woman realises that she will rarely be the winner if she tries this in a workplace where modesty is expected.

reply to post by intrepid


are you saying this never happens? you are the one in denial, intrepid. do you require facts and figures? statistics? video, graphical evidence?

Originally posted by undo
are you saying this never happens? you are the one in denial, intrepid.

Does it happen or was this spawned in your mind.

do you require facts and figures? statistics? video, graphical evidence?

Yes, actually I do. Even if you came up with them, Google can be a great tool, what does it have to do with the topic other than to further obfuscate the topic that is now so overly hypothesized that no one could tell what it was from the OP?