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Sexist Female Oppression? Cleavage In The Workplace

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posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by JakiusFogg
reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


Oh no it isn't Cleavage is the crack formed when you breast are either pushed together by engineering, or formed naturally like a smooth toned San Andreas Fault.

I think our visual picture must differ.

The cleavage I have seen on parade, in offices, goes to just above the sternum. now THAT is plunging.


lol J Fogg...you're bad




posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Advantage
 





I do feel for you men though. External genitalia proves there is a god and SHE had a sense of humor.


Hey thats not funny! I have crunched mine every way possible! I have given up on sports cars, because sliding into those bucket seats, getting hung up and sitting on one of my boys is not only painful, but also hilarious and embarrassing!

On another note, I don't think most men would want to be responsible for all the necessary hygiene that comes along with female equipment. I know I wouldn't. I don't have time or patience for that. I like to be able to whip it out and pee on a tree. It has come in handy for warning my dog away from my banana trees, and after a questionable encounter I can stop at any convenience store and use the antibacterial soap in the men's room!


Ok, so sad. How much I wish I were only joking.



LOL!!! Many many men have bathroom phobias... my big tough ex marine husband whos seen battle is too afraid of some bad aims and misplaced poo to sit on the toilet at work and drives 30 min one way to use ours at home if he has to go during work hrs. I told him Id buy him some of those potty seat liner things but he just eyeballed me



You have kids? We have 3 daughters..pity the husband.. for whatever reason he has been all but mangled by the kids for years. Play anything with the kids and he is getting hit in the groin. I bought a little hairless dog.. first day we had him, dog jumps up... hit in the groin. We bought a hot tub years ago.. first night in it he is stepping out of it. yep.. slips and hit in the groin. Sounds like you 2 are related.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 06:45 PM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


I agree 100 percent. I'm a Labour Relations Manager for a rather large automotive supplier. Part of my oversight is the Human Resources Department so, you can imagine that deal with this kind of thing almost daily, be it on the shop floor or in an office setting.

We've had both scenarios within our organization . . . sexual harassment eminating from both genders and it cannot exist in the workplace.

When somebody comes to work inappropriately dressed, I'm the one who has to go and reinforce our Code of Conduct which is based on the 'reasonable person' test . . . would a 'reasonable person' consider a person being inappropriately dressed for an office setting.

In my world, when somebody has notations in their work record as being inappropriately dressed on several occasions, it points toward that person's ability to work within accepted guidelines, and their ability to take constructive criticism or corrective action in a useful manner.

If they fail on any of those fronts, they're not likely to be considered the best candidate for a promotion unless they can accept the fact that they have to meet the organizations dress and action standards.

Believe me, it cuts both ways.

If a guy comes in wearing a pair of 'nut-splitters' or likes to keep his shirt unbuttoned past the tropic of nipple, well, they too get the same treatment.

One can be well endowed - be it breasts on a woman or below the waistline on a man - and still dress appropriately.

Wrapping it nicely and exposing it gratuitously are two opposite extremes.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by caitlinfae
 


Thanks for weighing in, Caitlinfae.

I have to say, that cleavage is not akin to wearing pasties and a see through top. It isn't the same as say a man exposing his penis through his pants and expecting us to accept it. Cleavage is just my chest, with the nipples no where near shown.


Hot, thanks for tolerating the OT side convos


I do agree as well that showing cleavage isnt a bad thing.. within reason, but you have to admit... some of our less classy fellow women havent figured that out yet.
Men and everyone else have to realize that these days its really hard to find conservative clothing that isnt school marmish or something your great grandmother would wear. Over the years career wear for a normal middle aged woman of ANY body type has been much more sexy and revealing that in the past across the board. The designers and buyers are simply limiting our choices.
Every woman loves to be sexy.. I dont know one that doesnt anyway.. its part of being a woman.. but so many of us are simply at a body disadvantage with the current styles. Im 5'4" 140 + or - lbs and have hips small waist and almost D breasts. Most clothing does NOT fit a curvy womans shape. I can look like a hooker if Im wearing a turtleneck and jeans if Im not careful. Our choices in jeans has went down hill.. I dont want to wear high waist, but who wants to see some 40-something womans butt crack.. KWIM??



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 06:56 PM
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reply to post by Advantage
 


Your husband must be a hell of a man! If he is still a free man, then he deserves a medal! When my wife was pregnant I was positive we would have boys. She was worried that I wouldn't love a girl, but that wasn't it at all. I would love a girl "too" much.

I knew God couldn't do that to the world! I would not be sane as the father of a teenage girl.

Much too many skeletons in my past, I wouldn't trust anybody! Not my brother, friends, neighbors, and ESPECIALLY not teenage boys!

I was right. I have too little boys. Nothing against girls, because I have all the respect in the world for the parents of little girls, I don't think I could handle it.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 07:00 PM
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Within my company i only employ flat chested women, i wouldnt get any work done otherwise and my wife
wouldnt be happy as she knows i get mesmerised by large breasts.

On the other hand an ex girlfriend of mine who has double E cups runs a hairdressing salon and only
employs large breasted women. Part of their work requirements involve showing plenty of cleavage.


+2 more 
posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater
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Personally, here is how I feel. Being asked to cover up my cleavage, when the office does not require uniforms, is oppressive, and a conspiracy against women.


No it is called the manager making the decision he/she believes is best for their business.


Women have breasts. Some women, like me, have rather large breasts. I love my breasts, they are a part of me I refuse to hide them. Many of my shirts are V cut, because I enjoy showcasing my best assetts, and I would hope that my work would be what people judge, not my breasts.


So you want to "show off your best assetts" but you do not want to be judged for them? Sounds to me like you want to have your cake and eat it too.


So, in your experience, as employees, employers, coworkers, men and women, what do you think? Should women be allowed to show cleavage in the workplace? Is asking a female to not show cleavage oppressive, or sexist?


I think the decision is a correct one and I infact believe showing excessive cleavage devalues a woman so required uniforms would probably be most productive for any business.

Oppressive... No
Sexist... No

Can a man wear skin tight spandex and show off his package? Would that in some way effect his impact on the business? Of course it will hurt the business, it is irresponsible.


I find it disgusting that some bosses overlook some females just because they show cleavage. I think that reflects the perversion of thought in the boss's own mind, personally.


Both parties are equally at fault in this scenario. The men for being too obsessed with cleavage and the women for being too provocative. "I should be able to show off my breasts for the men, but the men cannot judge me for it unless it is in a positive light." Double standard I would say.


People need to get over cleavage already! ALL women have breasts, (well, most do), and it should be MY choice how I want to dress or display my cleavage.


As long as your business has no dress code it is your choice how to dress. If you want to devalue yourself no one will stop you. Once again, you cannot have your cake and eat it too.


Men must be very frightnened of the power of the breast if they are passing cleavage minded woemn over for promotions, simply due to cleavage baring!!


Maybe it is because these women feel they must show off their body more than their minds.


Thoughts?


This is a complete non-issue. There is no oppression in this whatsoever. Everyone has the freedom to make their own choices. The women made the choice to wear provocative clothing and the managers made the choice not to pick them for that reason.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 07:14 PM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


Having worked in a corporate environment for more than two decades with most of that time in a management position, I have confronted this issue many times and have talked with women, men, HR departments as well as internal and external counsels regarding lawsuites. Here's where I come down on it.

1. Perceptions are reality. With the vast majority of communication being non-verbal, attire and body language is a significant medium of communication in any environment, especially a closed one like an office. You are always better off from an advancement perspective by stressing the quality of your work, rather than your physical attributes. In other words, you should not do anything that detracts from the quality of your work, be it cleavage, visible tattoos, piercings, gold teeth, etc. They are all the same.

2. Women with nice bodies can effectively dress to show them off in ways that are far more seductive than simply showing off a ton of cleavage. Sexy, attractively dressed women tend to see more rapid advancement in the work place, especially in client facing roles.

3. To the extent that women are held back, and I believe they are, it is more due to the fact that because they are attractive, men don't want they out of their immediate office environment. If you come to work in a job you are not crazy about and one of the things you have to look forward to is the beautiful girl who shows a ton of cleavage, you are not incented to give her a promotion or recommend her for one that takes her out of your daily environment. Is that right? No, but it happens.

4. In the several dozen cases of this nature I have dealt with, the complaining party was more likely a women than a man. I ran an organization that had a wide age span of professionals. Complaints about attractive young women always came from older, typically over-weight women. When confronted with "we have an issue with a young woman on your team" comment from HR I would respond with "which 40+ woman in ill-fitting stretch pants is offended this time?" In just about every case, there was absolutely no issue with the young woman's dress or behavior the issue was envy.

5. I never encountered a situation where a woman was deemed unqualifed because she was attractive, had a great body or showed it off. She might have been thought to have poor taste, and might even get a bit of coaching, but I never experienced one being held back

At the end, be happy with yourself and dress to accentuate your assets in a professional way. If you are working at a quality place with decent people, it should not be a problem


+5 more 
posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 07:14 PM
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Im a woman and I have breasts


95% of my employment over the years have been in an office setting. Every office I have worked in has had some kind of dress code - be it casual or office casual or professional. When at work, I dress according to dress code and I dress professional unless im in a super casual office (where jeans are allowed).

There is freedom to dress how you want and there is dressing with class. Many woman lack class. Fact.

I am proud to be a woman. I am confident in myself - be it looks, personality or whatever. However, I do not feel the need to walk around exposing clevage in the workplace - for I have not worked in a place that required me to do so.

Do some clothes expose cleavage? Yes. But while working in a professional business, one should have enough class to dress appropriately and choose something that does not deflect away from the job that people are there to do. I understand some clothing just does not allow that - but there are options in clothing. And there are varying degrees of clevage. Some dont know when to stop.


I feel if a woman has the need to expose that part of her body for whatever reason - there are other issues at hand.

Whether or not that part of my anatomy is my best feature does not matter - because the features up above (the face and my brain) are more than enough to feel the need to expose my breasts for whatever reason.

Freedom. Class. Two different things. In the work place, I think class is more important than freedom. I suppose if a woman solely wants men to pay attention to their body rather than their brains and personality...than more power to them. To each their own.

I guess I take the workplace pretty serious and would not want to jeopardize anything. Outside the work place, I have no issue with any of it.
edit on December 16th 2010 by greeneyedleo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 07:17 PM
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this thread is a mockery to mens sexual natures.

if you feel oppressed go find a job where there are not men that are interested in seeing your cleavage if you feel it is necessary to feel comfortable at work wearing revealing clothes. im sure you wouldnt find oppression in such an environment.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 07:27 PM
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edit on 16-12-2010 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 07:30 PM
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So wait a second here. Exuding sex by showing off your breasts, or as the OP, put it, "best assets," when at work will naturally cause a male to think of sex, since we love breasts. I love the fact that you want to show them off, but I would expect you not to complain when people would view you in a sexual manner. You are ultimately trying to get attention or influence others through your use of "assets," so you shouldn't really be upset when people view you as such. Being professional and not sexually harassing you is the proper form, but you are also sending out a message, and then when people formulate a conclusion based on that message, they are being sexist. That's just ludicrous.


+19 more 
posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 07:33 PM
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As a woman...I always find it very very interesting when women say "Its just a breast, everyone has them" yet they feel the need to be "proud of them" or "show them off".


Which is it? They are either nothing, just another body part. Or they are deemed a sexual object.

Or another thing that makes me roll my eyes.....

Women who love to show them off but get mad when men focus on them.

Poor guys...yall cant win can you?
edit on December 16th 2010 by greeneyedleo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 07:35 PM
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reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


Thank you so much.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 07:35 PM
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reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


Wow greeneye, that avatar. Very unsettling.




posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by Logarock
 


Thats armpit cleavage, and there is less than 3 cm of it, so that doesn't count! Carry on, watch the sultry facial expressions though, your pushing your luck!



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


Wow greeneye, that avatar. Very unsettling.




well you better come listen to ATS Live on Sat nights



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


Wow greeneye, that avatar. Very unsettling.



its a microphone



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Or another thing that makes me roll my eyes.....

Women who love to show them off but get mad when men focus on them.

Poor guys...yall cant win can you?


Yup - that pretty much sums it up.

Sometimes it is basically a no-win situation. Being a tall guy I've literally I've had to turn my head the other way when a woman was trying to show me a document or something to keep from getting an eye-full.

Its just no fun..

"What do you think of this?!"
"Ummm"...
"You're not even looking!!"
"Ok" - turns to look at document held beside breasts..while she is bending over in a low cut top."
"Stop looking at my boobs!!!!!"
"I was honestly trying not to.."

Yeah - sometimes it really is no win to be honest.




edit on 16-12-2010 by Frogs because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 07:43 PM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater

Personally, here is how I feel. Being asked to cover up my cleavage, when the office does not require uniforms, is oppressive, and a conspiracy against women. Women have breasts. Some women, like me, have rather large breasts. I love my breasts, they are a part of me I refuse to hide them. Many of my shirts are V cut, because I enjoy showcasing my best assetts, and I would hope that my work would be what people judge, not my breasts.


Showing your "womanhood" as a professional.

There is something wrong in that statement.






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