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Sexist Female Oppression? Cleavage In The Workplace

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posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 02:39 PM
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Big boobs can be distracting and intimidating. Why do you think 2nd rate actress and world class poker player Jeniffer Tilly dresses like this at the table? Now to follow this logic, isn't it really stupid to expect an employer to ignore this? No matter what the woman's qualification. Especially if the boss is a woman. You're not making any friends there.

Now a question for HBT. You say you like your boobs and like to showcase them. Paraphrased of course. If you do is there anything wrong with me saying, "Thanks for wearing that top. I'm really enjoying the view?"




posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


Sorry no it's not projection at all, businesses have dress codes because they want to portray themselves in a certain way and check this thread, you will find both men and women saying that the woman like the OP who show off their assets at work are doing it for the sole reason that it strokes their ego. The OP said they are her best assets and wants to show them off but in a work environment what is the purpose of showing them off other than to garner attention?

You can twist it any which way you want but in the end it's all a load of nonsense. In my experience the women who like to show off their cleavage avoid work or try to use their assets to get a job in the first place. Again i was the employer and the women who put that cleavage on display were the ones flirting like hell in the interview and also when i asked difficult questins about something or other they would try and avoid it with by flirting more. The women who didn't put it on display were down to business and the one i finally hired was a pleasure to work with.

There is no purpose to displaying them in the office other than an ego trip, however there are many reasons to cover them at work, like a company projecting a certain image. If a person is in business they look for serious individuals to do business with and that means they are more likely to look for the conservative business who look clean and professional.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by undo
 


Maybe some guys but most employers don't view it this way. Look i was an employer and when a woman came in showing off her assets and flirted to try and get a job i had the logical question in my head asking why she needed to do that? Are her abilities not up to scratch and so she has to use her looks?


some women have such large breasts, even conservatively dressed, they are treated like they actually want to pose in playboy. it isn't that the woman in question may WANT to pose, it's that the guy is projecting his desire to see her posed in playboy, that's the problem.

there are books on this subject, of women who have such ample breasts, they are automatically categorized as unprofessional, and best suited for something not involving serious subjects. this is because when a woman is that well endowed, it's too distracting like big neon headlights, to a work environment. not that she's unprofessional but rather her obvious mammary glands are disrupting the flow of "serious" work-related thought. again, it's projection.


Yes but Tater specified in her OP the topic was not about women being disadvantaged by possessing large breasts, but about the OP insisting on showcasing her large bosoms because she felt good about her body, not caring what effect this had on other people,
and about the reluctance of some managers to promote women who showed themselves off this way, calling the request to cover up "oppressive, and a conspiracy against women".

No-one's knocking big knockers, just the display of them in a work environment where men want to concentrate, do not want to accidentally stare, and feel threatened by the possibility of sexual harassment suits.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


I never claimed to be anything other than what I am. I like how I look in certain clothes, and thus feel more confident. I dress for myself, and if others cannot handle it or become confused thats their problem. What I do with my cleavage, whether showcasing it like the attention monger I am, or covering it up, is my decision. I don't care if it confuses other people, thats on them, not me.


You ought to feel confident when you're not showing your you know what, I'm sorry that society has succeeded in programming you otherwise. Well, folks, there you have it, she basically admits that she doesn't give a bleep about others, it's all about her, me, me. I think the root problem is how we've raised this generation, men and women, to think they are entitled, no even it is our obligation to bend to their will even when it treads on others rights. Spoiled, selfish ways cause societies to fail, it's the antithesis of society.
edit on 18-12-2010 by bigrex because: typo



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


I never claimed to be anything other than what I am. I like how I look in certain clothes, and thus feel more confident. I dress for myself, and if others cannot handle it or become confused thats their problem. What I do with my cleavage, whether showcasing it like the attention monger I am, or covering it up, is my decision. I don't care if it confuses other people, thats on them, not me.



Actually it appears to be your problem because you might be overlooked for promotions, the point being that it's affecting your life because of your decision, the world does not bend to your will, it does not revolve around you. the company you work for comes before your fashion sense i'm afraid.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by Kailassa
 


most women don't have that lady's build. most women, especially aging women, have more aunt Jemima and less marilyn monroe. for women to have "professional " figures, they have to diet, exercise, primp, shop carefully, and basically act as if their entire life is at the work place (even mothers and wives are expected to do this), and it's all because of projection



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by bigrex
You ought to feel confident when you're not showing your you know what, I'm sorry that society has succeeded in programming you otherwise. Well, folks, there you have it, she basically admits that she doesn't give a bleep about others, it's all about her, me, me. I think the root problem is how we've raised this generation, men and women, to think they are entitled, no even it is our obligation to bend to their will even when it treads on others rights. Spoiled, selfish ways cause societies to fail, it's the antithesis of society.
edit on 18-12-2010 by bigrex because: typo


Yeah and it's just struck me that the OP is probably loving the attention of this thread, even if it's negative. We do live in an age where it seems most people think they deserve this and that without working for it and if they don't get what they want then the world is the problem and not their own behavior.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by Kailassa
 


i worked in a very large restaurant that catered to military officers. it was on a military base. i worked there for a year and a half. i wore a plain white shirt that buttoned up to the neck, covered over by a plan brown apron, and comfortable brown slacks with comfortable flat "work" shoes. i served food, from breakfast to fine dining. from single table dining to banquets for officers. after a year and a few months, i was informed by the cook that he didn't know my name, and in fact, all the cooks had just referred to me as jugs. there was nothing even remotely sexual about my attire. my job was not sex related. in fact, i just had normal 36 C breasts. nothing extravagant. so i don't think the problem is that she's showing cleavage. i certainly wasn't.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


I never claimed to be anything other than what I am. I like how I look in certain clothes, and thus feel more confident. I dress for myself, and if others cannot handle it or become confused thats their problem. What I do with my cleavage, whether showcasing it like the attention monger I am, or covering it up, is my decision. I don't care if it confuses other people, thats on them, not me.


Im sorry you feel this way. I hate to see women disadvantage themselves like this.

Look, I love clothes - I buy too many clothes and shoes and accessories - Im very much a "girl".
But I have learned that out in the work world, the way we present ourselves matters more than any other time in our lives and whether we like it or not, we will be judged positively and negatively in the work place and our presentation can harm or hurt us.

I worked in a health club (gym) for a number of years and I had to wear a uniform. I hated it. It was ugly and it fit me horribly. But I loved my job and while it was just a part time job to get me thru school....I sacrificed the crappy attire I had to wear in order to work there. Once I was off shift, I could put on whatever clothing I wanted. The crappy attire did not affect my confidence in who I am as a person. My personality and brains were never affected. If one has a great personality and is smart and so on....they could wear a garbage bag and still project themselves in a positive way.

I think women are their worst enemies in so many ways. I know I can be mine - often. I just do not understand the "I don't give a crap about anyone but myself even if it risks my job" (as an example) I can understand if an employer was requiring one to get a tattoo or piercing....but asked to dress more conservatively for the sake of business.....why wouldn't a mature woman willingly agree to that?



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Kailassa
 


most women don't have that lady's build. most women, especially aging women, have more aunt Jemima and less marilyn monroe. for women to have "professional " figures, they have to diet, exercise, primp, shop carefully, and basically act as if their entire life is at the work place (even mothers and wives are expected to do this), and it's all because of projection


I was not saying women should look like that. I was saying it was a good look for a brothel, not a suitable look for work.

I think the pressures on women here, (in Australia,) are not as great as those on American women, so I've always felt free to be myself. But I understand what you're saying. Growing up in farming country, girls tended to be being strong and capable, and their guys were proud of the way their wives could milk fifty cows before breakfast and chuck hay-bales. And they expected their middle-aged wives to have tummies and a bit of bounce.

Seems in America these days every young woman is expected to look like a model, and it's a sin for a woman to age, to develop her muscles or to put on a few pounds.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


I fully agree with your statement there. It makes tons of sense.

That being the case, and acknowledged as the simple fact of the matter gives aaaalll the more reason for the professional woman to downplay their large 'distractions.'

Its not fair to the woman to be completely honest. But lets not get ahead of ourselves either. The man being the sexually charged beast he is has his own natural defecits he must overcome as well in the workplace. In the professional workplace boobs are a detractor to a woman trying to advance in her career through recognition of their work. That is the mentaility of the work place.

What can be done about it? Are we going to sit down every single person in America and have a chat about equal rights in the workplace for big chested women? Probably not. But can women minimize their exposure to such a bias by covering them up at work? I think so.

Thats the thing with gender equality. They simply are not the same and therefore hard to be considered "equal." Not that one is "better" than the other. Both have their attributes and both have their detractors.

Dealing with them in fair/ equal ways is the difficult part.
edit on 18-12-2010 by open_eyeballs because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by Kailassa
reply to post by hotbakedtater
 

So this, from your OP:

Some women, like me, have rather large breasts. I love my breasts, they are a part of me I refuse to hide them. Many of my shirts are V cut, because I enjoy showcasing my best assetts (sic)


has now become this:

a tiny portion of a boob crack


Riiiight.
I can show off my breasts with non cleavage baring shirts too. Mine show a portion of my cleavage to a large portion of my assets.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by open_eyeballs
 


doesn't matter if you cover them up or not, is what i'm saying. if they're even remotely ample, there's automatically an imagery placed upon you, which is what muslims keep trying to point to as the rationale for why women should not be in the work place to begin with. but we have already been thru all of this: the issue isn't the woman or her cleavage. the issue is, if you're hetero male, you must take personal responsibility for your biological proclivities. don't let your masculine parts rule your intellect but vice-a-versa. i realize that's tough, but we've overcome tougher hurdles than that, in the past.
edit on 18-12-2010 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Kailassa
 

i worked in a very large restaurant that catered to military officers. it was on a military base. i worked there for a year and a half. i wore a plain white shirt that buttoned up to the neck, covered over by a plan brown apron, and comfortable brown slacks with comfortable flat "work" shoes. i served food, from breakfast to fine dining. from single table dining to banquets for officers. after a year and a few months, i was informed by the cook that he didn't know my name, and in fact, all the cooks had just referred to me as jugs. there was nothing even remotely sexual about my attire. my job was not sex related. in fact, i just had normal 36 C breasts. nothing extravagant. so i don't think the problem is that she's showing cleavage. i certainly wasn't.


Did you read the OP?

Personally, here is how I feel. Being asked to cover up my cleavage, when the office does not require uniforms, is oppressive, and a conspiracy against women. Women have breasts. Some women, like me, have rather large breasts. I love my breasts, they are a part of me I refuse to hide them. Many of my shirts are V cut, because I enjoy showcasing my best assetts, and I would hope that my work would be what people judge, not my breasts.

So, in your experience, as employees, employers, coworkers, men and women, what do you think? Should women be allowed to show cleavage in the workplace? Is asking a female to not show cleavage oppressive, or sexist?

I find it disgusting that some bosses overlook some females just because they show cleavage. I think that reflects the perversion of thought in the boss's own mind, personally.

People need to get over cleavage already! ALL women have breasts, (well, most do), and it should be MY choice how I want to dress or display my cleavage.

You might notice, it's all about cleavage.

If you were called jugs when you dressed modestly and kept your assets covered, you can imagine what they'd have been saying about you if you had beed proudly "showcasing" them.

Consequently, most of the posters have been suggesting that openly displaying her breasts at work, when knowing that's against the work dress code, is unwise for her career prospects.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by Kailassa
 


cleavage isn't the issue. she could've covered herself, head to toe, in loose fitting garments, and if she was attractive and ample busted, same problems would arise.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Big boobs can be distracting and intimidating. Why do you think 2nd rate actress and world class poker player Jeniffer Tilly dresses like this at the table? Now to follow this logic, isn't it really stupid to expect an employer to ignore this? No matter what the woman's qualification. Especially if the boss is a woman. You're not making any friends there.

Now a question for HBT. You say you like your boobs and like to showcase them. Paraphrased of course. If you do is there anything wrong with me saying, "Thanks for wearing that top. I'm really enjoying the view?"
I would say, you are welcome. Anything beyond that could be misconstrued. As I have said, it is not problem if the person looking has a problem with what God gave my chest area. And that problem can include someone whose self control is lacking.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 03:22 PM
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the logical thought process should be like this:

1. is she qualified for the job?
2. would the size of her breasts interfer with her ability to do the job?
3. the size of her breasts will not interfer with my ability to do my job
4. the size of her breasts will not interfer with the other employees ability to do their jobs, and i'll make sure of that by making it clear that a woman's appearance is irrelevant in the work place. can't have it both ways.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


I never claimed to be anything other than what I am. I like how I look in certain clothes, and thus feel more confident. I dress for myself, and if others cannot handle it or become confused thats their problem. What I do with my cleavage, whether showcasing it like the attention monger I am, or covering it up, is my decision. I don't care if it confuses other people, thats on them, not me.


Incorrect.

You should dress according to your companies work dress code, I keep saying this but you seem to ignore me; it's called professionalism.

Quite frankly, I don't care if it "makes you feel good" when you display your breasts or cleavage, your at work to work and I would also be there to work, not to see you expose your flesh.

What if it made me "feel good" if I could have my penis on display in the office? I mean, it's a lot more comfy letting it all hang loose rather than wear tight fitting pants or smart jeans, so I suppose as long as I do my work and be productive I can walk around with my third leg dangling out of my pants?


What a ridiculous notion!

I also like how I look in certain clothes, but when I'm at work I appreciate that I have to keep a presentable and acceptable apperance as I'm a direct representation of the company I work for, like I've said before I'm the smartest chap to see when I'm at work i.e. shoes, pants, nice shirt + nice tie etc but I'm not displaying my penis because its one of my best assets.....



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater
Now a question for HBT. You say you like your boobs and like to showcase them. Paraphrased of course. If you do is there anything wrong with me saying, "Thanks for wearing that top. I'm really enjoying the view?"
I would say, you are welcome. Anything beyond that could be misconstrued. As I have said, it is not problem if the person looking has a problem with what God gave my chest area. And that problem can include someone whose self control is lacking.

Don't show it then, problem solved



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by open_eyeballs
 


doesn't matter if you cover them up or not, is what i'm saying.


Well, I think it does matter. Agreed the size is going to play a role, covered or not. No doubt about it. I dont think you can change the mentality of human nature. They ARE sexual organs, theres just no denying that. And sexual organs come with a stigma. No getting around that either.


if they're even remotely ample, there's automatically an imagery placed upon you,


Agreed. It unfortunately is something women will always have to deal.


the issue isn't the woman or her cleavage. the issue is, if you're hetero male, you must take personal responsibility for your biological proclivities.


This is where I disagree. Look at all the women who have commented in this thread. Look at their responses. Some from large breasted women who have jobs in a professional atmosphere. They all (or most) agree that breasts should be covered in the workplace. It is distracting to both male and female. Again, going back to the sexual nature of the female boosom.



don't let your masculine parts rule your intellect but vice-a-versa.


I do agree, but agin the fact of the matter is males and females have their sexuality ingrained into them. Asking to tone it down at work is fair, but it needs to be toned down by all parties in a proportional fashion. And in my and many others opinion, a large part of that is to conceal as best as possible two of the most sexual organs on a human body.



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