4000 yr old alien craft recovered from Grand Canyon! (Allegedly)

Originally posted by jtma508
Not to give any credence to what is an incredible story... but too many of you are hung-up on the carbon dating aspect. AgentSmith had it right. The way they would estimate the age of the crash is by datiung materials found under it or otherwise buried by it. This is a legit methodology. NO as for the credibility of the story as a whole... well, that's an entirely different matter.

- GP

jt: carbon dating when there is an active radiation source around?

I don't know much about carbon dating and radiation, but arn't there different types of radiation?
Could it be possible that the radiation that is measured in carbon dating is different and unaffected by the type of radiation being given off by the alleged craft?

Actually, this article seems to imply that carbon dating is performed by measuring the amount of Carbon 14 (a radioactive type of carbon) left in a carbon based object.
This is based on the half life of Carbon 14 being 5730 years and by comparing the object being dated to it's modern day surviving equivilent, if I understand it correctly.

Radio carbon dating determines the age of ancient objects by means of measuring the amount of carbon-14 there is left in an object.

www.bbc.co.uk...

So as it is not actually measuring an amount of radiation, but rather the number of a certain type of particle left in an object - is it possible that the outside radiation source would not have a significant effect?

Originally posted by AgentSmith
I don't know much about carbon dating and radiation, but arn't there different types of radiation?
Could it be possible that the radiation that is measured in carbon dating is different and unaffected by the type of radiation being given off by the alleged craft?

Thats my question too

Originally posted by AgentSmith
I don't know much about carbon dating and radiation

Me neither, but the food supplies that the article said they carried could be carbon dated, however all carbon dating could be rendered null and void by the low level radiation given off by the craft. Also I am baffled that everyone assumes the craft is alien, it could just as well be home grown.

Most likely this is just another hoax and the craft came from someones imagination inorder to sell yet another paranormal book. I want to believe but thus far no solid evidence has been presented.

why would carbon dating be null by the LOW level radiation emitted from the craft?

The radiation emitted from smoke detectors is considered low level...

That makes no sense.





[edit on 5-7-2004 by porky1981]

i find it believable, actually. there was obviously ET activity on earth at about that time *points to egyptian pyramids*

I remember this story actually. ABout 12 years ago I was in flagstaff heading to the grand canyon and this story was on the front cover of a tabloid.

The weekly world news I believe, I know it's one of those because running next to it was one of the first "Bat Boy" stories.

It's about as credible as Pravda.

Check weekly world news from around 1992 or so.

Spiderj

Originally posted by porky1981
why would carbon dating be null by the LOW level radiation emitted from the craft?

The radiation emitted from smoke detectors is considered low level...

Any radiation other than the norm would likely alter the radioactive signature of the material to be tested thus yield corrupt results it seems to me. And since "low level" is not defined in the article, I visualized the radiation area being the size of a flying craft rather than being the small size of a smoke detector.

Maybe I am right, maybe I am wrong. Feel free to correct me. I am not representing myself as an expert.

hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...
www.answersingenesis.org...

How the Carbon Clock Works....
Carbon has unique properties that are essential for life on earth. Familiar to us as the black substance in charred wood, as diamonds, and the graphite in "lead" pencils, carbon comes in several forms, or isotopes. One rare form has atoms that are 14 times as heavy as hydrogen atoms: carbon-14, or 14C, or radiocarbon...........................
www.christiananswers.net...



Here are a couple of links that might help out the cause. I am intrested to see what you guys can come up with. Good luck.

[edit on 5-7-2004 by SpittinCobra]

I did say here earlier on, that it doesn't appear to be measuring actual radiation levels, but the amount of Carbon 14 left:

Originally posted by AgentSmith
Actually, this article seems to imply that carbon dating is performed by measuring the amount of Carbon 14 (a radioactive type of carbon) left in a carbon based object.
This is based on the half life of Carbon 14 being 5730 years and by comparing the object being dated to it's modern day surviving equivilent, if I understand it correctly.

Radio carbon dating determines the age of ancient objects by means of measuring the amount of carbon-14 there is left in an object.

www.bbc.co.uk...

So as it is not actually measuring an amount of radiation, but rather the number of a certain type of particle left in an object - is it possible that the outside radiation source would not have a significant effect?

The thing that I found funny is that the Grand Canyon is actively being carved out by the Colorado River. How can something be at the bottom for 4,000 years? 4,000 years ago the depth of the Grand Canyon would have been more shallow than it is today. I don't think something can be buried there if it is being carved out all of the time. Does this make any sense?

Very true about the river, I did think the whole story sounded a little far fetched. Especially as it is apparantly so old:

Originally posted by Spiderj I remember this story actually. About 12 years ago I was in flagstaff heading to the grand canyon and this story was on the front cover of a tabloid..................

I could only find 2/3 links on it, all the same text just on different sites, so it obviously amounted to nothing.
Anyone can make up a story about 'something' being 'discovered' by 'experts'.
'Sources too secret to disclose... blah de blah de blah!!'

A little imagination and there you go!!!

It's almost as bad as 'I've got a secret, but I'm not going to tell you what it is!'

It's interesting to hear everyone's feedback though, I hoped that maybe someone would have further info on it, as (like I said) I couldn't find very much at all. But looks like it's just another hoax, probably to distract us from the true mysteries, like the crypt/temple!

Originally posted by AgentSmith
But looks like it's just another hoax, probably to distract us from the true mysteries, like the crypt/temple!

What crypt/temple? Do you have a link to a story on this? Is there a thread here on ATS about this? I am very curious to hear about this.

ok forget carbon dating, how about solid proof?

where are the pictures? craft?
where's the evidence?

If none of the above are given, there is no proof they found anything.

Does anyone remember hearing the story of the cave dwelling in the Grand Canyon that housed a secret alien or military base?

Maybe this is near that alleged area. I'm going to have to look into this when I get some time.

Ok kids, I found some sites that talk about what I was thinking of.

here's one
Turn's out Hopi Indians supposedly spoke of living with ant people near the confluence of the Colorado river and the Little Colorado.

Here is a mapping site that shows how close the alleged ufo crash site is with the alleged cave dwelling. Ironically the two are only about 10 kilometers away from each other.

Personally I find all this pretty hard to believe, but you never know.

They aren't very detailed about the carbon dating that was done. Did they compensate for the higher levels of radiation the material used to be exposed to, while it was sitting next to a craft that is still a little radioactive?

Why do they say the craft is a sphere one minute, then a few sentences later it's 50ft by 100 and some odd feet?

How was this thing discovered... it didn't just sit on the surface for thousands of years and just get noticed now, did it?

What features indicated that they breathed oxygen? What features indicated the number of crew stated?

My point is that a lot of obvious questions weren't addressed. This isn't very good story telling, but on the other hand, the fact that they dont' "go for broke" on details almost gives it a hint of realism. I'm not convinced though.

Now, Dr. Henry Leaumont showed a reporter "secret documents" and agreed to be named in the article? I'm gonna try googling that name and see if just maybe he died recently .

find.intellius.com... is pretty reliable. I've used it to find a lot of old friends, as well as to check out hoaxers online before. It can't find a single person named Leaumont in California or Arizona, and no Herny Leaumonts in the country. If this person had owned a home, or co-signed for a family member, bought and registered a vehicle, sued anyone, been sued by anyone, applied for a copyright protection for any of his work, owned a business, maybe even if he'd been employed by a state university... he would have showed up.
I found an 18 year old friend of mine who I know doesn't have a home a car or utilities in his name. (he's a college student though).
I think that Doctor is ficticious.

Intelius provides online access to public records such as real estate deeds, lawsuit filings, and other information filed by individuals and businesses with local, state and federal agencies. We also provide access to publicly-available information such as published telephone numbers

I think it is about time for an ATS Expedition to the Grand Canyon!! Any fellow Arizona ATSers interested in making a trip to the Grand Canyon to look around? I am personally interested in checking out the area that the Egyptian stuff is supposed to be. I know it is supposed to be off limits, but I am quiet and have camo.

Originally posted by groingrinder
I think it is about time for an ATS Expedition to the Grand Canyon!! Any fellow Arizona ATSers interested in making a trip to the Grand Canyon to look around? I am personally interested in checking out the area that the Egyptian stuff is supposed to be. I know it is supposed to be off limits, but I am quiet and have camo.

That's a good idea . Make sure you bring a picture-phone so you can post pictures live to ATS before you get caught .