After tripling tuitions, UK may ban student marches

Just to add abit more...

In UK many people voted for the liberal democrats because it had good policies and seem to provide a fair system.But what happened when they came in power? The lib dems and conservatives were suppose to be total opposites? I ask WTF happen?

Which has finally led me to conclude that all politicians and parties are all the same when they get into power.

All you people, go and research into how these policies are made and who influences the final decisions.That's where the REAL answer lies.

It's like the Federal Reserve in US, while it might sound like a government run entity, the reality is that it's run and owned by banks while the US tax payers are just throwing their money into a huge black hole called the Federal Reserve.For some reason the names of those individuals cannot be revealed who are responsible for the FR transactions.And again coincidently those banks and FR President are All Jewish.

When the f*** will the masses wake up? The answer is they won't because what the good ol tele tells them is the TRUTH.

reply to post by Freeborn


Ayup mate!

I was expecting a long winded post from you countering my post like you normally do on other threads.

Shall i assume you agree with me on this one?

Originally posted by Misoir
PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC

Enough arguing about democracy, etc... If you want to argue about that create a thread on the subject and discuss it there. This thread is for the discussion of banning student marches in the United Kingdom.

From this point forward anyone who is too far off topic I will warn the moderators to remove their post.

Arguably this is a topic about banning our right to march in the UK as opposed to Student marches..

The EDL have been banned a number of times from marching so the process of banning marches has already been tested.

The UKUncut protests run alongside the Student protests, and we shall see a major increase in Union protest marches across the nation as the front loaded cuts hit home in January (estimated min 100,000 job losses for January alone)

Take UKuncut for example, this weekend is operation "payday" (protests in *48* cities across the UK) with the aim to collect cash from the larger tax dodging corporations, while this weekends protests include the high street banks!

www.ukuncut.org.uk...

The Police themselves are also facing major cuts in funding and the number of officers they can place on the street to manage the volume of protests they are expecting must have them deeply concerned.. Hence why I think we will see a rise in the police attempting to ban/control ever more protests. Which will only make things worse.

But ignoring the wider context might miss what is really happening, as already we have a cross over support between the protesters. This is also why I marry in today's events into historical context and the various protests of the 19th century. (Luddites, Swing, Diggers, levellers, Chartists etc) and their attempts to reform a undemocratic system.

And again in historical context those protesters linked arms and went toe-to-toe with the Army in an age when being read the riot act could mean the death penalty, they stood resolute, unarmed and facing down a system of governance that was undemocratic.

So I expect the same thing to happen today.. we are at the start of a journey, that I believe will bring reform to the system and reinvigorate democracy in these isles. The act of trying to subvert peoples right to march will only cause more issues than it resolves.

So for me this is an issue about democracy.

reply to post by Doujutsu


The Party political system has failed us miserably.
We need urgent and radical reform of both the electoral and parlamentary processes including the abolishment of the party system, fixed terms and the power of recall etc all of which would help make elected officials more accountable to the electorate whose interests should be the primary concern of all elected officials.

That the LibDems, or ConDems as they should be more accurately called, have done such an about turn, and Vince Cable, a man whom I previously considered being one of the few remaining politicians of conviction, actually being the Minister responsible for the policy shift, is testament that the current system does nothing but produce corrupt and egotistical poliicians whose only concerns are adhesion to party line regardless of personal conviction or constituents interests and personal gain and advancement.

Cameron, Clegg, Miliband...they are all just different facets of the same corrupt and self-perpetuating cycle of middle of the road, mediocre government.

Cameron does want change.
He wants to drag us back to some Victorianesque like time and the start is the introduction of these totally unecessary public cuts.
If he tries to ban protest marches he will get a big shock and I fear a massive backlash and major confrontation is only a matter of time if he continues with these policies.

I too think we are heading towards a defining moment in UK history and the choices WE make may echo down the centuries.

reply to post by Freeborn


I agree completely . We as a nation are approaching a point at which either the government will cease its gutting of the nations confidence, and its ability to function , or the people will gut the government. Pleasingly , even if the armed forces got involved, they havent the guns and bombs to prevent the people from having thier rights, and protesting freedom.
As I have already stated, they may well attempt to ban the march, but it will cost them more than they can pay , to enforce that ban.

reply to post by Freeborn


You see the way things are going i can't see any kind of radical reforms or changes taking place.

It's just one Big corrupt system that has been designed in a way that benefits the elites and sucks the poor and middle class dry.The recession was created by the bankers yet we have to pay the price for their deliberate 'mistakes'.

And the masses depend on the media to tell us the truth, but they forget that the media is owned by those same individuals who dodge tax and influence party leaders/policies by funding them.

I don't know how long this s*** is going to continue, but i know one thing for sure is that it's only going to get worse.I fear for the future generations.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by Doujutsu

 

That the LibDems, or ConDems

Condem.

From a conspiracy point of view:

Condem is jamaican patwa for 'cheating someone by being deceitful, which is what, mossads original motto was - "by deception thou shalt wage war"...

reply to post by Freeborn



Are you sure the cuts are not necessary? You do have a major fiscal crisis as with the rest of Western nations. Surely we do not want to see that spiral too far out of control? I agree this cut is too deep especially considering that the banks got a bailout from the government using taxpayer money.

These next 3 months could quite possibly decide the future of your entire nation. Hopefully the coalition collapses and snap election is called sometime around spring so you can have a second chance at this. But like you said, who would there be that could change all of this? You have only 3 choices and within the past year all 3 of those choices has damaged your nation in some form.

You Brits are being hit harder than us here in the states. We all know nothing can stop a march from occurring in a supposedly free nation. So this will only lead to an even larger sense of solidarity across Great Britain.

These are the times that define a nation. When the Great Depression hit the UK your people elected the Conservatives overwhelmingly and gave the great statesman Winston Churchill the opportunity to change your nation and after the war you gave the Socialists the chance to change your nation. We must not look at the bad of such trying times but rather the greatness that man can create from it.

If your country collapses, I mean that term loosely, expect other European nations to take to the streets in show of support and encouragement to change their nations.

I support you regardless, the people versus the elite, I am always on the side of the people. Give them hell!

reply to post by Doujutsu


For once we concur wholeheartedly.

When the battle lines get drawn up I know which side of the fence I will be on.
For right and for freedom and for this great country of ours.
And then smaller and less important differences will be set aside in the fight for a common and greater good.

That all sounds quite melodramatic doesn't it.

reply to post by Misoir


All the recent cuts have amounted to a total £6 billion saving.

Vodafone, a British company, were recently let off with a £6 billion tax bill.
www.bbc.co.uk...
The math is simple.

How many other businesses are gettng away with this and how long has it been going on.

The ineptitude and incompetence of the high level bankers cost this country billions then it was decided to bail them out.
And now we pay the price.
We should have let them sink or swim

For years the ordinary people of this country have watched their standard of living gradually drop bit by bit whilst the wealthiest of our society have seen their profits and personal fortunes continue to grow, sometimes at an alarming rate.
We have seen ownership of all the utilities in this country and the profits they make go abroad.
We are being bled dry slowly but surely.

There are lots of measures that could be taken other than these drastic cuts, which are going to help drag us back to Victorian Britain, if only we had a politician or leader with the balls and strength of conviction to make those decisions.

In February 2008 Alan Johnson, the health secretary in England ordered the public water there to all get fluoridated.

They'll get those kids to calm down with enough fluoride in the water. Works in America.

Englands kids will start getting retarded and their test scores will gradually drop as the medication does it's thing.

Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by Freeborn

 

[font=arial]
Are you sure the cuts are not necessary? You do have a major fiscal crisis as with the rest of Western nations. Surely we do not want to see that spiral too far out of control? ...

Easy to answer that question. Go to the countries that have already done the cust and see the results. What progress are they showing?

Moreover, one good example is VAT rise. Other countries in Europe tried that as some form of economic recovery stimulus, yet, it failed in every single one of them.

If people (including govs) don't get through their thick heads that they cannot spend waht they do not have, it will never change. They are all just playing onto the hands of banks and of China.

Originally posted by jmlima
Easy to answer that question. Go to the countries that have already done the cust and see the results. What progress are they showing?

Moreover, one good example is VAT rise. Other countries in Europe tried that as some form of economic recovery stimulus, yet, it failed in every single one of them.

If people (including govs) don't get through their thick heads that they cannot spend waht they do not have, it will never change. They are all just playing onto the hands of banks and of China.

You are correct on a nation spending on what they do not have and will have to suffer the consequences, BUT what had UK DO NOT HAVE??? Taxes had been regulated, paid, and spending allowed as fiscal prudence justify. Those social spending had been studied for years and comfortably assured.

BUT why the cuts, so deep and now?

Look no further. You gave a prudent answer. Why spend tax payers monies that were meant for social funding to BAILOUT banksters, money that had not been agendized for???

And today, as the rich cavort around in their porches, ferrraris, with beautiful women in tow and luxurious holidays in sunny climates as common taxpayer suffer the effects of the cold including the police forces and arm forces, they had decided to let the common man starve.

Is this the England the greatest leader she had ever had - Queen Elizabeth the First, envisoned for her People whom had protected and defended her against greater powers of her time?

Sigh...sad days ahead for UK, with the likes of you around.

reply to post by Freeborn


Same story here in the States. The irresponsible corporates(banks in your case) live it up and when they get into trouble the people bail them out. It just goes to show that the rich don't know how to handle money. At one time, a struggling person could get rich if he was innovative and thrifty. Now that they're gone and left their riches to their heirs, what they worked for is squandered by spoiled brats who don't know the meaning of struggle.

I don't blame the students for their actions in the UK, even the violence it's poducing, for this seemingly inexcusable and unjustified rate hike for higher education.

This is just showing the people of the world that people with money control elected officials. I really feel bad for the people of the UK. It's really a sad situation. It's building up to a bloodbath.

It looks like that the government is going to allow the rich and privileged to get a higher education and leave the common people to struggle and suffer. Devo (the group) was right. We are in the de-evolution mode and it's happening too fast.

Does anyone remember when Capitalism was good?. It was in the day when the working class could afford housing and an education. They could go on vacations and have an enjoyable holiday at Christmas.

What the elite don't realize, and maybe they do, is that the common people out number them 100 to 1. If there's any way to avoid violence to set this world straight, then I'm all for it. Sadly though, talk is cheap in this sophisticated, modern world.

The university system has been stuffed and bloated over recent decades for social engineering purposes till the point now that many university degrees have become worthless!



Britain's Left Are Panicking
By Adam Shaw
London's descent into anarchy over a rise in university tuition fees shows just how deeply the entire leftist enterprise relies on their takeover of the university system.

Ignore the apologists wringing their hands and claiming that last week's riots were not riots, but healthy protests that were signs of a "vibrant democracy" and "an engaged youth." London has been held hostage to the tyranny of anarchist and socialist rioters for the past two weeks, and the situation shows no sign of letting up. These came to a head last Thursday when London descended into anarchy, the royal family were attacked and threatened with death, police officers were injured and nearly killed, and enormous amounts of damage were done to the city.

That these riots took place over legislation that will raise the cap on university fees from $5,192 to $9,470 ($14,200 in exceptional circumstances) a year will seem bizarre to many Americans, where students pay significantly more. This perception has led many commentators to speculate that what is being exhibited by the rioters is in fact a "spoilt brat" mentality, and that the riots were nothing more than a violent tantrum from a generation mollycoddled into a sense of entitlement by socialist Britain.

While this is true, it does not explain the frightening violence that we have seen in the capital. One may expect the usual left-wing moaning, complaining, and general insults about how "it's all the bankers' fault" in such circumstances, but this was something entirely different.

The passion behind the riots (which included not just students, but whole squads of angry leftists) is explained not only by the usual left-wing angst, but also by the fact that the rise in tuition strikes will radically reform the main left-wing recruitment center and training ground -- the university.

cont..................www.americanthinker.com...

Originally posted by Intelearthling
reply to post by Freeborn

 

What the elite don't realize, and maybe they do, is that the common people out number them 100 to 1. If there's any way to avoid violence to set this world straight, then I'm all for it. Sadly though, talk is cheap in this sophisticated, modern world.

Unfortunately they do know this and this is the reason why.

Common people have always been the enemy of the rich and powerful, because they enslave, manipulate, control and steal from the commoners in order to feed their greed. They have had no choice but to resort to their methods in order to maintain their status. They have us all right where they want us, and have done for years. They are now in a position where we cannot beat them and all we can hope is that they end up destroying themselves from within.

reply to post by Misoir


voting for your dictator is hardly a democracy, the government that we currently have in the uk is not held by majority, there are always more people who did not vote for the party in power than did, maybe it would work if they followed the will of the people rather than push their own agendas upon us

reply to post by Misoir


Misoir, I believe the issue with the cuts that are being made, is not that there should not be any form of cuts. That is insane. But the cuts that are being made, are identified, I believe correctly as the wrong ones.
The HM Revenue and Customs, formerly customs and excise, are the government body responsible for a range of tasks , including but in no way limited to , the aquisition of tax from the tax payer, investigating tax evasion, operating our border controls, and organising the movement of confiscated contraband to the various disposal sites, and training facilities to which it must eventualy go .
Baring in mind that they are the body responsible for the collection of tax from the taxpayer, and the people whos job it is to investigate and prosecute tax evasion, it may suprise those of us who live in Britain to know, that HMRC buildings up and down the nation, are owned by a company called Mapeley, who are in fact, one of the biggest avoiders of tax in the nation.
Futhermore, in this ecconomic black hole in which the UK finds itself, it will also suprise interested parties to know, that HMRC have made procurement of simple office products many times more expensive than it has to be.
This is a real example given to me by a friend who works inside one of these buildings:
When a simple optical mouse breaks beyond user repair, it must of course be replaced, and you or I would merely trot down to our local superstore, or technology centre, and by a replacement microsoft one, for about £7.99 or there abouts. In the offices of the HMRC they have to use an office supply catalogue, which lists the price of the same, pretty basic mouse as £68.99 . This is because a certain amount of "servicing" is included in the price, but as we all know, it is more expensive to fix a mouse than buy a new one , and in the particular office concerned, when one breaks, it is merely replaced at the over inflated price. There is a blanket ban on office products being bought from local stores at normal prices, so when computer mice, or office desk fans are required, they are purchased exclusively from the catalogue. I believe it is the owners of the building , Mapeley who produce the catalogue, and supply therefore the products contained therein, at thier insane prices.
The same inflated madness extends to everything, from really shoddy quality biro pens (not bic, these ones will die on you in about a day after first use) to extremely basic paper products, copier paper and similar stationary.
If this is how our tax offices are run, can you imagine what the OTHER government departments are doing to waste our money ???
Can any of the ConDem coallition really say that while government departments have carte blanche to hemorrhage money in this fashion, students ought to pay over the odds for thier education? Can they say that the public servants who work hardest ought to be out on thier ear? Can they really ban a march that THIER waste and THIER lack of backbone over the banks has caused? I say no they cannot. I say that those utter morons in parliment, with the suits and the ties and the well polished shoes, should FIX the waste in thier own departments, and in the whitehall machinery BEFORE, and thats important BEFORE attempting to recoup thier losses from people who have no part in the mess that parliment has made of our finances over the years.

reply to post by Misoir


It occured to me today that in light of such reactions from the police/government, what would happen if the students joined forces with other sectors of society.

The population is ageing and there are a massive amount of issues that are impacting on the growing over-60 sector of our population (hits on savings, pensions, fuel costs/subsidy cuts, health and social care facilities...the growing trend for them to subsidise their offspring in completing their education and accomodation costs...

IF a sector like that was mobilised and allied in support of some of the student's causes, it would be interesting to see how the governmemnt/police would react. Not least due to the implications on prospective election votes.

Would such actions from the police/gov be tolerated were a different demographic (say the baby boomer voters) the ones out demonstrating, is it only that the defining difference are the 'civil-unrest' attributes of the currently younger set of demonstrators?

PS - This is NOT intende as a dig at the Baby Boomer generation, more a refelection on how the public may consider working with/around the proposed 'restrictions' on civil demonstrations...e.g. how could the government deny older over-60 voters/citizens the access to demonstrations...would 'fears' about civil unrest really be credible?

reply to post by curioustype


Well, since the students and the Unions will be conducting joint demonstrations and protests next year, that question will be answered by observation in not too long.
There is deep speculation about what possible numbers, and what kind of atmosphere there might be at those protests, due to the differing lifestyles of the people protesting. They will likely be of a much grander scale than anything we have yet seen from the students alone.