Decriminalise all drugs, says ex-minister Bob Ainsworth

reply to post by Pakd-on-mystery


It's attitude's like these that start a dumbass, fruitless, strung out war on people's freedom to choose what they put into their own body. You can't just carte blanche the whole of "drugs" out there. You ever taken an asprin? Tylenol? If you have taken anything of the sort, you are a pretty big hypocrite......cause....y'know.... A DRUG IS A DRUG......pile of crap statement made in ignorance. Sure drugs have ruined people's lives.......but they have also enriched others. Drugs.....just like guns....are things (tools if you will) it's the human beings who are ruining their own lives by abusing substances or an inability to deal with the crappiness that other human beings place onto others......no matter their classification (food, painkillers, etc)

The best you can hope for is educating young people on the effects (both positive and negative) so they can make an informed decsion for themselves. It's not your decision!!!

I mean....marijuana being illegal is just the dumbest thing ever......it's like saying God (or nature, evolution, the universe, depending on your belief) screwed up. How arrogant are we as humans to say that human beings shouldn't ingest(or use) something that came directly from nature??? I have been smoking pot for years now, and it hasn't made me apathic, nor was it a "gateway drug" to get me hooked on heroin or coc aine or whatever. I am a healthy, rational, free thinking individual who respects others choices, and lives life to the fullest. Sports, hikes, family time.....the whole works.

You people need to learn to frig off telling other people what to do, or what to say, what to think, how to act.....because frankly.....YOU DON'T KNOW FRIG ALL......what's bad for some, is good for another. A human or government agency has absolutly no place telling other free souls what to put into their body. PERIOD. Experience is the better teacher in life.......not stupid "a drug is a drug" statements.

Sorry for the rant....this kinda thing drives me bannanas.

I would just like to remind people, that if all drugs where decriminalized the biggest concern the government has about doing this simpley that that would cause Tons of Americans to lose their jobs. We are still in a recession or depression or whatever. Can you people imagine if tomorrow the government disbanded the entire D.E.A, A.T.F, and everyone involved in the war on drugs? America would become a third world country in less then a month. The War on drugs is actually probobly the only thing stopping the american economy from crashing to a grinding hault. It's sad but if you start to build your country on the backs of slaves, then your always going to need slaves and scapegoats to keep going. The phoney war on drugs is just what this country needs to keep itself together. Hell if we can't blame the blacks for all our problems then its the Druggies and the Sand People! clearly.

Originally posted by thegremlin666
I would just like to remind people, that if all drugs where decriminalized the biggest concern the government has about doing this simpley that that would cause Tons of Americans to lose their jobs. We are still in a recession or depression or whatever. Can you people imagine if tomorrow the government disbanded the entire D.E.A, A.T.F, and everyone involved in the war on drugs? America would become a third world country in less then a month. The War on drugs is actually probobly the only thing stopping the american economy from crashing to a grinding hault. It's sad but if you start to build your country on the backs of slaves, then your always going to need slaves and scapegoats to keep going. The phoney war on drugs is just what this country needs to keep itself together. Hell if we can't blame the blacks for all our problems then its the Druggies and the Sand People! clearly.

I don't see the same correlation. Why could the human resources not be transfered to more beneficial roles?
And what of the massive influx of moneys to the public purses?
And what of the underground economy suddenly showing up on the books?

Thanks for your input.
the Billmeister

Simple facts here.

1. People will do drugs, you can't stop them. Prohibition has always been a failure whenever it is tried.

2. Massive amounts of tax payer money are spent fighting the drug war.

3. Drugs are often impure, cut with all sorts of rubbish, while drugs are often dangerous the stuff they are cut with makes them more dangerous.

4. Drugs are not standardised and so overdose is common and easy.

5. The drug war puts vast amounts of money in criminal pockets, funding other activities like terrorism.

6. If drugs were legal we would see less deaths and the taxes from them could be used to dramatically improve public services.

7. Many young kids do drugs simply because they are taboo, therefore legalisation could help thsi issue.

8. Prisons are packed with drug offenders, people who harm only themselves and this seems utterly stupid. Prison spaces could be freed up so we can give longer sentences to genuinely dangerous criminals.

Is there any reason to keep them illegal? I can't see one.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


The only thing that makes me think about "Drugs" is the kak that the illegals ply them with. It's the kak that kills people, not the actual drug and they do this to weigh them in. Battery acid and melted tyres are not that good for the buyer........

Its not like if drugs where decriminalized the government and you worked as a drug enforcment agent. Then the next day the governement would have a new great paying job for you available. Lots and Lots of americans would in fact lose their jobs and have to find new ones. The governemnt has no work relocation program as far as i know. So all those people would be out of luck. And its not as if we have a huge surplus of jobs just waiting to be filled in this country so yes if about 10,000 people where to enter the job market all at the same time tomorrow and need work, Good paying work. The D.E.A Doesnt make 16.50 and hour. We are talking thousands of people getting payed easily 30 dollars per hour EASILY. That would cause a HUGE impact on job availiablity. The baby boomer retireing from trades is having a huge impact thats one generation. Ending the war on drugs is retireing about what 2-3 generations worth of employee's. From hundereds of different branches....But thats just the numbers (for which I dont have exact numbers) ;P

Decriminalizing also means the doctor preforming your next massive surgery could shoot some heroin right before seeing you.

Why do we feel the need to alter our state of consciousness?

Just askin

Originally posted by thegremlin666
Its not like if drugs where decriminalized the government and you worked as a drug enforcment agent. Then the next day the governement would have a new great paying job for you available. Lots and Lots of americans would in fact lose their jobs and have to find new ones. The governemnt has no work relocation program as far as i know. So all those people would be out of luck. And its not as if we have a huge surplus of jobs just waiting to be filled in this country so yes if about 10,000 people where to enter the job market all at the same time tomorrow and need work, Good paying work. The D.E.A Doesnt make 16.50 and hour. We are talking thousands of people getting payed easily 30 dollars per hour EASILY. That would cause a HUGE impact on job availiablity. The baby boomer retireing from trades is having a huge impact thats one generation. Ending the war on drugs is retireing about what 2-3 generations worth of employee's. From hundereds of different branches....But thats just the numbers (for which I dont have exact numbers) ;P

Decriminalizing also means the doctor preforming your next massive surgery could shoot some heroin right before seeing you.

OK, where to begin...
I wasn't suggesting they leave law enforcement, only that the man power be used to prevent, rape, murder, theft etc... you know REAL crime that affects other people than oneself. (Hey, maybe even bank fraud!) So, they are on government payroll and would remain on government payroll.
And as for your doctor example... really? What's to stop him from doing that now? Is he allowed to perform surgery completely drunk? Sorry, that's all I've got as this argument is a little far-fetched to me.

Thanks again for your input,
the Billmeister

reply to post by Pakd-on-mystery



I have been "addicted" to both alcohol and drugs, (mostly legal ones prescribed to me)....and I have to say to a few people on here....namely the "I was addicted once and it almost destroyed me...blah...blah...YOUR life...MY life.....THEIR life.....waaaaaaaaa.....

I say that once you hit age 21....nobody should be able to tell you what you can and cannot do to/with your body....what you can take....how much you can eat...to drive at a certain speed limit (Though, I guess others might get hurt if some loser couldn't handle 80 mph on heroin and drunk on Spaten......)...I know I will get blasted by what I have written...but I guess I believe in a LITERAL definition of adulthood...and that if one is dumb, addicted, whatever...enough to take something to excess and then die as a result...well..damn....guess it just sucked to be you...(but I guess the hurting of "innocent" others would be an issue right????.....sigh...ok...)

just my opinion

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Why do we feel the need to alter our state of consciousness?

Just askin

I don't understand why people take drugs but lets face it, most people alter their reality with something. Caffeine, alcohol, even meditation alter your conciousness.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Why do we feel the need to alter our state of consciousness?

Just askin

Because "man" requires food, water, shelter, sex, and altering of conciousness. These are the 5 most basic needs that "man" has sought out since he was able to grasp the concept of each. So maybe you should ask why do we feel the need to eat, drink, sleep, and shag as well. Answer: we do these things because our internal circuitry is hard wired to seek out these things for survival. Just a thought. I could have gone a different route with this question, but this seemed to be an answer that would be digestable to all "rational western minded" ATS'ers.

Originally posted by Mike N

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Powdered form is still acceptable, in my opinion. The only problem with coc aine is that it is way too easy for anyone to make into crack, which is not the same and is very bad. I call coc aine a soft drug because, for one, that's what it is "marketed" as, and two it is a "party drug" that has short-term effects.

Coke is much more dangerous than you know. You have experienced it in a recreational way and can no doubt provide lots of anecdotal evidence as to how it is safe, as might I. It may feel 'soft' but there is nothing soft about it. Look up vasoconstriction. This is what coc aine does to you - it restricts the blood supply to your brain. Can you imagine why that might not be something you'd want to do too much?! That's why it's one of the worst drugs imo, along with other amphetamines.

Have you ever considered what alcohol does to the human body?

Alcohol is a toxin and when we ingest it, it enters our bloodstream and cuts off the effectiveness of our blood cells. It also thins our blood. Basically the more your drink, the closer to death you become; and being "drunk" is just the body's natural response to being closer to death, except people don't realize that because they haven't put the thought into it (or it must be safe because the government sells it to us ).

And smoking marijuana cuts off oxygen to the brain sometimes. Hell, I've had much more dangerous experiences where I've stood up too fast from just laying down, and blacked-out and collapsed for two seconds (no drugs involved).

Anything you put into your body is a risk. Food is a risk, especially genetically modified food which is genetically different than the real thing, but psychologically you don't realize that because they appear the same. Most processed food clogs your veins, which permanently cuts off your oxygen-transition efficiency and requires you to breathe harder to make it up.

You should speak to some people that have had to deal with the negative effects of coc aine.

Almost everyone I know has had experience with the negative effects of coc aine, crack, meth, ecstasy, acid, alcohol, marijuana, etc. We know the risk.

You want to know some horror stories? I know a 17 year old girl that has, twice, gone to a club (underage) and has been rufied (date-rape drugs). I know some stupid people who are willing to do a line of white powder without knowing what it really is, (such as kitamine instead of coc aine, which is pretty much a sex drug). I had a drawing instructor who used to be a major raver, until she went to a rave on ecstasy and actually died (her friends saved her by CPR) and spent some time in a coma.

These are the risks. The risks are significantly reduced with experience and common-sense. The risk is almost non-existent if recreational drugs were not prohibited, because then there would be a lot more responsibility involved.

And coc aine is a soft drug. If you don't like that designation, then go tell it to the users, dealers, and suppliers.

Lots of americans would in fact lose their jobs and have to find new ones.

I'm pretty sure the millions of people in the underworld drug market will probably bring the jobless rate straight down when their activities are legitimized and put on the books

And for your information, the DEA is probably the most powerful gang out there. They control drugs in the US, including their distribution; it is at their discretion as to where to enforce the drug trade, where to intercept drug routes, what drug lords to avoid, etc. On top of that, corruption is everywhere.

Why do we feel the need to alter our state of consciousness?

Because developed governments have been trying to alter our consciousness for us. Also, we feel the need to have the ability to alter our own consciousness just to prove to ourselves that we still have a conscience.

Stepping back from whether drug A or drug B should be legalized or not, I'll give your my opinion on why it'll never happen on the national scale.

Alot of people are making the assumption that we don't want people in prisons being a drain on the taxpayer and whatnot. That's almost true, but you're forgetting about the very powerful interests that not only want to maintain our incarceration rate... but make it bigger.

As enament pointed out a few pages ago, you can actually buy stock in the prison system. To go in a little further, two of the largest corporations in the US which make up the prison industry are Corrections Corp of America (NYSE: CXW) and the GEO Group (NYSE: GEO). Combined, these two corporations alone are valued at over $3 billion dollars. It's in both of their interests to keep a steady flow of inmates going to their facilities, because for them, empty beds waste money.

That's why the GEO group spent $500,000 and Corrections Corp of America spent $730,000 lobbying congress in 2010 alone. They also are part of the American Legislative Exchange Council, a lobbying group which pushes for "tough on crime" legislation.

I think we can all agree that politicians only care about being re-elected, and when you have private prisons throwing around so much money in our legislative process, we're not going to get any reforms that result in less incarceration. That would mean less profits for a very powerful industry.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


I agree, alcohol is bad for you, I never said it wasn't.

Maybe my language was a bit vague. By 'the negative effects of coc aine' I was meaning a stroke or a serious medical complication, not 'feeling a bit crap'.

You mean ketamine - it's a horse tranquilliser.

Cocaine is a hard drug. You're the only person I've encountered who says it's a soft drug. You may think it's 'soft' because you've seen it a lot, but that doesn't make it so. And we are missing the real point, it is classified as a hard drug by almost all governments, drug-enforcement agencies and medical professionals in the world. If you don't like that then take your argument up with them, tell them it's a soft drug on the basis that 'you've seen lots of people doing it'. Good luck.

I agree with all your other points though.

I'm for decriminalising all drugs for many reasons. Halting the funding of serious death and criminality being one of them....regaining control of the problem is another. I have never seen coc aine as a 'soft' drug - I cannot abide coke heads - they tend to be idiots....and there's so damn many of them these days.

Ex coke head Alex James of Blur took made a documentary about the damage our consumption of coke is doing - at the supply end of the chain.

Alex James In Colombia

Worth a watch.

Originally posted by Mike N
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

Cocaine is a hard drug. You're the only person I've encountered who says it's a soft drug. You may think it's 'soft' because you've seen it a lot, but that doesn't make it so.

No, I call it a soft drug because that's what it is sold as. Real dealer organizations carry soft or hard product (because here there are different legal and moral consequences between soft and hard), and coc aine is in the first category while you'll find heroin and meth in the latter.

Originally posted by ayoss
Stepping back from whether drug A or drug B should be legalized or not, I'll give your my opinion on why it'll never happen on the national scale.

Alot of people are making the assumption that we don't want people in prisons being a drain on the taxpayer and whatnot. That's almost true, but you're forgetting about the very powerful interests that not only want to maintain our incarceration rate... but make it bigger.

As enament pointed out a few pages ago, you can actually buy stock in the prison system. To go in a little further, two of the largest corporations in the US which make up the prison industry are Corrections Corp of America (NYSE: CXW) and the GEO Group (NYSE: GEO). Combined, these two corporations alone are valued at over $3 billion dollars. It's in both of their interests to keep a steady flow of inmates going to their facilities, because for them, empty beds waste money.

That's why the GEO group spent $500,000 and Corrections Corp of America spent $730,000 lobbying congress in 2010 alone. They also are part of the American Legislative Exchange Council, a lobbying group which pushes for "tough on crime" legislation.

I think we can all agree that politicians only care about being re-elected, and when you have private prisons throwing around so much money in our legislative process, we're not going to get any reforms that result in less incarceration. That would mean less profits for a very powerful industry.

Very good points!

As I stated in my first reply to this thread, there are two other often overlooked reasons as to why it is very improbable that drugs be decriminalized in the near future.
And they definitely are not FACTS or LOGIC.

Check it out: www.abovetopsecret.com...

The first point I brought up has some recent and interesting implications. (And actually brings up another point that drugs are already legal if you are in the upper class of society... but that probably deserves another thread!)

Check this out: www.bloomberg.com...

During the onset of the "economic crisis" Banks knew where to find cold hard liquidity didn't they?

And my second point was pretty self-explanatory, but here you go if you don't remember Iran-Contra:
en.wikipedia.org...–Contra_affair
Just Google it and you will get dozens of other references and videos.

And, if that wasn't enough check out the implication of Mena Airport to see how you can become president by covering up for CIA drug trading! en.wikipedia.org...

Yes, these are just allegations and were added for some dramatic effect... but interesting nonetheless!

the Billmeister

reply to post by Mike N


Examples of soft drugs include cannabis, '___', mescaline, psilocybin, and '___'. MDMA and caffeine are sometimes included as soft drugs. The term soft drug is most usually applied to cannabis.

Examples of hard drugs include heroin, morphine, coc aine, amphetamines, alcohol, and nicotine (tobacco)

Generally speaking hard drugs as being physically addictive, easier to overdose on, and/or posing serious health and social risks, including death. Did you like that one?? Nicotine is a hard drug! its not illeegal, its just taxed to hell so everyone can make money from it.

That list does not include prescription which are also highly addictive. I believe painkillers, xanax,etc medication would be considered hard drugs in my opinion AND THEY ARE GIVEN OUT LIKE CANDY. The DR's are making loads of money, the pharmaceutical companies are making loads of money, and the government makes loads of money getting people addicted to the latter 2 i just stated.

How about anti depressants?? ANOTHER GROSSLY OVER SIZED MONEY MAKING SCHEME.
Too many dr's today will throw pills at you for any itch or scratch you have. Anti depressants are ADDICTIVE. If you've never taken them before believe me they are. and if you don't have insurance or run out of your medication, its hell coming down off of them. you can become more depressed, suicidal, angry, sad, isolate, and just feel like plain crap, not to mention its very hard on your mind and your body and is NOT RECOMMENDED, as it can be extremely dangerous with the possibility of death.
Many synthetic drugs we have prove to be highly addictive and more dangerous on the human body, especially when detoxing. Any natural drugs such as coc aine or heroin withdrawal, it can be hell, but you will not die from it.
Whats legal and not legal is whatever fits best for who's running the show.

Oh and by the way. ALCOHOL does the most harm to the human body then any legal or illegal drug out there, besides meth. Alcohol does terrible damage to all parts of the body, including the brain, vital organs, skin, mind set, vascular system, and so on. What makes illegal drugs dangerous, as someone stated before is the chemicals and other fillers the dealers put in it to dilute it, so as to have more quantity for sale, if you were to take a pure dosage of heroin for example, it would do little harm to the body, What damages the liver and kidneys in heroin addicts is the crap that its cut with on the street.

Ignorance is not an excuse.

originally posted by: Somehumanbeing
reply to post by SeaWind

 

yes because you immediately become addicted to a drug once you try it

Which drug would that be?