Europe ablaze: riots scorch six nations

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by kolcath
thanx from the uk we need all the support we can get and god bless you my friend.

Count me as another American supporting my European brothers and sisters.

Now, for my American brothers and sisters....when are WE going to get fed up enough to do something?

Sorry, but I wont be rioting any time soon because the government wont pay for my college/abortion/dental cleanings/laptop/pencil sharpener.

But by all means, off to the barracades!

Originally posted by stumason
As you can tell, I have little time or sympathy for people protesting that their free-ride is over. That is basically what each and every one of these protests has been about all over the EU, overpaid Government employees who do little work and getting a final salary pension realising the game is up and Students who are used to the State providing getting upset they might actually have to to Study a worthwhile degree and do some work, instead of getting pissed for 3 years and then getting a 2.1 in Leisure Industry Management......

Thanks for a rare and lucid analyses of the issues. Europe has created an unsustainable welfare state that cannot continue. People cannot retire at 60 and expect the state to pay for their lives forevermore. These "protests: are downright silly. In France the "riots" were over raising the retirement age to a whopping 62 from 60. In Greece an unmarried child can collect the retirement of her parent. In the UK they're angry because they MIGHT have to pay tuition. Only 40% will ever pay it back. In Russia the riots were nationalistic, comparable to the KKK marching in the US. Now that this gravy train is falling apart the citizens are angry becaus ethey won;t be able to suck at the teats of the government pig any longer and might actually have to work for a living.

The thing is, if these protests actually succeeded, their lives would be ever so much worse. Like all self styled revolutionaries, they want to tear up the place. After all is said and done and you've burned your own houses down, THEN what do you do? These guys are spoiled brats. Water cannons are really too good for them.

yeh in reply to some people here you generalise all students very well as spongers and socialists..well done

just to let you know i come from a quite poor working class family and was unable to go to college because i could not claim EMA because both my parents were working but had no money to fund my college. Travel and college supplies plus food etc etc prevented me from doing this, yes i tries to get a job but unfortunately there arent many around in this little town i live in and im fortunate to have a job now..

that was 7 years ago and i still work now in a dead end job that will probably lead me nowhere and it is now even harder for me to go to college now due to the cost, my age, supporting my family, paying for house etc

so yeh i see everyone who is lucky enough to be able to afford an education branding people as spongers maybe try living on the other side of the line for a while, because believe me i have been on benefits and its not just an easy ride through life with loads of money to spare thanks to the taxpayer..

some people just need to wake up and stop tarring everyone with the same brush because frankly it makes me sick...if you cant understand that some people are less fortunate than others but deserve the same right to a higher education than you are obviously an elitist who wants to further the barrier between the rich and the poor

tell my why is a rich person more deserving of an education a than a poor person?? because they have the ability to 'sponge' off parents instead of 'sponge' off the government???

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Now, for my American brothers and sisters....when are WE going to get fed up enough to do something?

Your statement is very telling. You don't even know what you want to do. You just want to do "something". If your goal is that loosely defined, you won't do anything. You also need to define just who you are against. This is not the "people vs. the government." The majority of us do not agree with the minority of you. You may be heartened by a few students with no jobs with the time to riot in the streets for stupid self-serving reasons, but the large majority, including the 93% who DO have jobs (in my area) are not going to let people like you destroy the country. And unlike most of Europe, we are armed. So think twice before you 'bring it on.' I suspect you would be quite disappointed at the result.

reply to post by silent thunder


Why don't they ALL jump out of the European Union just go back to printing their own money.
I think Germany would love to go back and print German Marks.

I know it's just a short term fix but they need to do something.

to the people marginalizing it, yes you can marginalize anything bring up the past and make people look silly, I say you completely missed the point, these events are a cumulative outcome of many things, this is not the time to be naive, your brother/sister is not what is effecting your quality of life, the ones in charge ARE
....your adding nothing toward a solution

reply to post by stumason

You can still get the damn thing virtually free if you take a proper degree like Science or Engineering, instead of Mickey Mouse degrees like Art in Tibetan Temples or the History of Bread.

That is freaking hilarious! Too bad it is the truth.

Star for making me laugh.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by kolcath
thanx from the uk we need all the support we can get and god bless you my friend.

Count me as another American supporting my European brothers and sisters.

Now, for my American brothers and sisters....when are WE going to get fed up enough to do something?

Most people in the US are fed up, but it is with big Macs, fries and chocolate malted.
No one in the US is going to actually go out in the street and demonstrate and riot
because they are all too busy fighting like Neanderthal's over the next gizmo that
can be bought at the local stores. More important things to do, you know? The MSM
probably won't be putting much of this on the news anyway, we sheeple need to be
kept in our pastures.

reply to post by backinblack


I agree.

Its just a shame it has to happen this way.

reply to post by moosevernel


Hang on a mo, I left school at 16 with just my GCSE's. I did want to go to University, but I was homeless as 16 and without a job. I was never "priveledged", nor could my parents afford to support me if I went to Uni. Instead, I knuckled down, got a job and worked. I eventually got a place on an apprenticeship course, buggered that up a bit and ended up in another no hope job. After more graft, more hard work and being willing to do whatever was asked of me, I am now in a very well paid job doing a nice techy job. I have a house, a partner and 3 lovely kids.

Again, no parental support, not even any benefits when I was unemployed or homeless. All of what I have today is entirely self earnt.

Stop you're whining and improve yourself. No one else is going to do it for you. At the end of the day, anyone can still go to University provided they have the qualifications, no matter the background. So what if you have to pay your own bus fare without an EMA to "support you" or what have you, get a part time job or, shock of horrors, walk....

Again, no sympathy. I resent paying for somebody else to do as they please and boy, do I pay! I pay more in tax and NI than my partner earns in two years wages.

Nice to see how out of touch and ignorant some people are these days.

Generalisation too.

Coming soon to a United States near you.

When they start to implement deficit reducing austerity measures in the new Republican Congress, people might eventually get their butts off their couches.

reply to post by stumason


The point I wish to make is that one of the issues is that more and more corporates and businesses are demanding degrees in increasingly lower level roles.. it is absurd I have to apply for the most senior roles as I would be rejected as unqualified for the roles I manage (I don't have any degree type qualifications)

I personally feel that is not the students fault.. and corporates should be putting their hands in their pockets since they are the ones creating the problem and benefit in the long term. So if they invested something in the further educational system then perhaps they might value those they employ..

It feels like there is a distinct lack of investment from the corporate sector considering that if they actually paid their taxes we might be in such a dire position or be cutting services the way we are.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by kolcath
thanx from the uk we need all the support we can get and god bless you my friend.

Count me as another American supporting my European brothers and sisters.

Now, for my American brothers and sisters....when are WE going to get fed up enough to do something?

well from the looks of things my friend, when America starts its austerity measures most American AtSers will be cheering on the cuts and perhaps even protesting for deeper cuts.

reply to post by thoughtsfull


My employer (and almost every one I have worked at since 2000) will, if there is a business justification, pay for college courses, Open university degrees and various other accreditations.

Even if others won't, then an OU course or Mature Student course at a normal university can be paid for peicemeal, there are grants available etc. Just because it isn't "free", doesn't mean it isn't available. I myself am doing an OU course out of my own pocket, it really isn't that much.

I just don't buy that, in this day and age, people are locked out of bettering themselves. It's people believing they are that seems to be the problem.

A good education should be the right of everyone, not only those that can afford it.
So education paid by government out of taxpayers money it is a good thing, specialy because with good educated people a sound economy can be build.
It is in the intrest of humankind that education is collective, accessible for everyone.
i'm not in favor of riots, but people have rights and certainly should have an proper education.

reply to post by SirMike


Just to let you know the government DOES NOT PAY for the things you mentioned there....We the people pay for them through a very high tax rate...and as a tax payer i am glad to pay for all those things that were mentioned...the collapse came with BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS of dollars of tax payers bailout of the greed filth ridden banking system and we the people are paying for it and the bankers are still raking in MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS in bonuses and payouts.....
The people are pissed and have eveyright to be pissed and the government employess that are losing working are bottom end payscale people who also pay taxes....but hey watch what will happen...they make cut backs ....people lose jobs...cannot spend...vat goes up and less people to pay taxes...Suprise a double dip Recession...whooohooo wont that be great....also no new job creation...Why do people always forget who pays for the services the people get...IT IS NOT THE GOVERNMENT....it is the PEOPLE....and now the people shall suffer for the Governments usless innept ability to do the right thing by investing in the future ....The future is in Educating the people.....IT always has been and always will be.
I am not a Student i am a tax payer and i expect certain services for the taxes i pay....but if you like to pay money for nothing then you can be my guest.

reply to post by silent thunder

Yes it's only natural that this happens, IMF world bank manipulation and ripoff, ban on natural products and the start of artificial products, control, this is just the beggining of riots across europe. Maybe the fall of natzi EU and the start of independent nations once again.

reply to post by godddd


And NOBODY is denying anybody an education! Anyone, with the right qualifications, can go to University and have their Tuition fees paid for by the State. Only if and when they earn enough to start paying it back do they actually have to part with a single penny. It is only fair that those who will beneift greatly from a University education pay back the money it cost when they are able, so that the next generation can too get an education.

If, on the other hand, you expect the Government to not only foot the bill for tuition but to also support students with their living costs too, well that is absurd. It should be part of student life that you work hard, including getting a job to support you while you study. For crying out loud, these are supposed to be adults out into their first foray in life. They shouldn't be taught that someone will support them while they do it. It's a life lesson and one everyone should learn, in my opinion.

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by thoughtsfull

 

My employer (and almost every one I have worked at since 2000) will, if there is a business justification, pay for college courses, Open university degrees and various other accreditations.

Even if others won't, then an OU course or Mature Student course at a normal university can be paid for peicemeal, there are grants available etc. Just because it isn't "free", doesn't mean it isn't available. I myself am doing an OU course out of my own pocket, it really isn't that much.

I just don't buy that, in this day and age, people are locked out of bettering themselves. It's people believing they are that seems to be the problem.

While I can't disagree with you on how your business approaches the situation (in what I consider the right and proper way) more and more businesses are using degrees as a way to say that is the level you need to attain to work there.. even when there is no business justification.

I currently PM the deployment of Global HR Information systems, which appears to be married to very poor talent management/staff retention. So if the corporates want a degree as entry point, and are not prepared to assist their staff in their personal/business development then they should be the ones contributing to the wider educational system that is in fact supporting them.

After all, in the end the corporates will be the ones paying the salaries of these graduates, which they can adjust to suit their investment. Why should we, the average tax payer pay for the demands and lack of self investment of those corporates, when the same corporates go out of their way to avoid paying taxes?

Edit to add: not trying to avoid your other points, and agree, with motivation anyone can achieve what they wish.. I, myself starting out in construction as a labourer