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does god exist? skeptics debunk god.

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posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 09:18 PM
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perhaps after reading my thoughts on the subject along with facts and data hopefully non-believers or poeple that say prove god exists may think twice.

It's always typical, and nearly cliche', for one to say, "People have been saying that we've been living in the last days since Christ died on the cross" or that "these things have always happened."

Typically when a non-believer asks a believer to "point out certain verses for me"--this comes with a bit of sarcasm on their part (and I'm just saying this, in general), because most of the time the person could actually care less, even though they are asking the question, because they are merely asking it out of spite/sarcasm, because if one REALLY wants to know the truth, one can easily do the research themselves. I'm going to prove to you that the Bible is real and that God is real. I want you to at least hear me out here, whether you believe it or not, and read what I have to say at least out of respect, because I respect you, as well.

First of all, Peter, in 2 Peter 3:3-4 forewarned that during the last days, people would come and say what you say ("they've been saying that for years" or scoffing at the reality of it all, etc., etc.):

"Most importantly, I want to remind you that in the last days scoffers will come, mocking the truth and following their own desires. They will say, 'What happened to the promise that Jesus is coming again? From before the times of our ancestors, everything has remained the same since the world was first created.'"

The particular version I hear most often is, "Sure, you think Jesus is coming, but so have previous generations."

The implication is that our generation will pass without the Second Coming just as those previous generations passed without His Coming. Aside from being illogical, this assertion flies in the face of plain observation as well as mountains of irrefutable evidence.

I always hear people say, "It's the same now as it's always been" or something along those lines.

But is it? Is it really the same? When non-believers tell me that there are no signs of the end times which are unique to our time, I am prepared to set the record straight.

Below are at least SEVEN clear signs of the end times, which highlight the nearness of Christ's return. In fact, He's so close He's knocking on the door. Read carefully:

1) The Holocaust and the Re-Emergence of Israel

One of the preeminent signs of the end times is the Jewish survival of the Holocaust and the re-emergence of the nation of Israel as a Jewish state.

Over 2,600 years ago, the prophet Ezekiel foretold these events:

"Then he said to me, 'Son of man, these bones represent the people of Israel. They are saying, 'We have become old, dry bones - all hope is gone.' Now give them this message from the Sovereign Lord: O my people, I will open your graves of exile and cause you to rise again. Then I will bring you back to the land of Israel. When this happens, O my people, you will know that I am the Lord." Ezekiel 37:11-13 (NLT)

As God says, the bones in Ezekiel 37 represent the people of Israel--otherwise known as the Jews. Following the first century Roman conquest of the Holy Land, the Jews were banished from the land of Israel. The Romans renamed the area Palestine, and exiled its people to farthest corners of the Roman Empire. Yet, in Ezekiel 37, God promised to bring the Jews out of exile. He promised to bring them back into the land of Israel. Not only did He promise to restore their nation, but God promised to do so by opening their "graves" at a time when the Jews feel that "all hope is gone."

The aftermath of Hitler's Holocaust of the Jewish people created these very conditions, nearly destroying an entire race of people and draining the hope of countless survivors. But out of the Holocaust, God brought the Jewish people back into the land of Israel, just as He had promised. On May 14, 1948, the nation of Israel reappeared in fulfillment of not just Ezekiel 37:11-13, but countless Old Testament prophecies.

Of all the signs of the end times, the re-establishment of Israel as an independent nation is the clearest and most unmistakable sign that we are in the last of the last days.

2) Jerusalem is a Burden to the World

Another visible sign of the end times is the world diplomatic struggle over Jerusalem.

The prophet Zechariah foresaw this event centuries ago:

"I will make Jerusalem and Judah like an intoxicating drink to all the nearby nations that send their armies to besiege Jerusalem. On that day I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone, a burden for the world. None of the nations who try to lift it will escape unscathed."--Zechariah 12:2-3

Since 1967 when the Israelis retook Jerusalem in the Six Day War, the division of Jerusalem and ownership of the Temple Mount in particular, have been a source of countless U.N. resolutions, diplomatic crises, and calls for war.

The struggle over the "Peace Process" in the Middle East is the stated number one priority of world diplomats, and Jerusalem resides at the center of discussions about "land for peace." With the threat of World War III casting a shadow over every decision to rebuild Jewish settlements or expand Israeli society, the City of Jerusalem is no doubt "a burden for the world."

Is this "the way it's always been"?

No!

Until this generation, Jerusalem was not "a burden for the world." In fact, prior to 1948, world diplomatic leaders rarely mentioned it.

3) The Dramatic Increase in Travel and Knowledge

One of the signs of the end times that anyone can easily recognize is the recent explosive increase in travel and knowledge.

In a vision, God revealed to Daniel that in "the time of the end," travel and knowledge will increase:

"But you, Daniel, keep this prophecy a secret; seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rush here and there, and knowledge will increase."--Daniel 12:4

According to the book of Daniel, two things will increase in "the time of the end"--travel and knowledge.

Is this the case now?

Yes!

At the time the Book of Daniel was written, horses were the world's the fastest mode of transportation.

In fact, horses remained the world's fastest mode of transportation for over 2,000 years until the Industrial Revolution spawned such innovations as the steam boat, the locomotive, and the horseless carriage. Prior to the 20th Century, most people rarely traveled more than 30 miles from where they were born. Today, people routinely travel from one continent to another within the same day.

Today's world is definitely not "the way it's always been."

Frequency and speed of travel have markedly increased!

What about knowledge?

In Daniel's time, few people received a formal education. In fact, basic literacy was a foreign concept to all but an elite minority of the world until the past 100 to 150 years.

Yet, in the past century alone, human knowledge of science, biology, technology, and countless fields of endeavor has exploded. And the advent of the Internet has created a worldwide archive of human knowledge that far exceeds even the wildest dreams of the great ancient civilizations.

Is humanity's knowledge base today "the same as previous generations"?

Absolutely not. Human knowledge has also markedly increased.

Given that all this can be ascertained from mere observation, how can anyone say with a straight face that "things today are the same as they've always been"?

4) Exponential Growth Marks the Times

If a marked increase in travel and knowledge constitute one of the most clearly observable signs of the end times, then the two are merely components of a much larger sign of the end times--exponential growth.

Jesus pointed to exponential growth as a sign of His Coming:

"Later, Jesus sat on the slopes of the Mount of Olives. His disciples came to him privately and asked, 'When will all this take place? And will there be any sign ahead of time to signal your return and the end of the world?' Jesus told them, 'Don't let anyone mislead you. For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Messiah.' They will lead many astray. And wars will break out near and far, but don't panic. Yes, these things must come, but the end won't follow immediately. The nations and kingdoms will proclaim war against each other, and there will be famines and earthquakes in many parts of the world. But all this will be only the beginning of the horrors to come.'"--Matthew 24:3-8

This translation fails to communicate an important revelation from Jesus--that the end times will be analogous to the birthing process.

According to Strong's Concordance, the word "horrors" as translated above comes from the word "odin" which is best translated as "the pain of childbirth" or "birth pangs."

This means that, much like birth pangs, signs of the end times will appear with greater frequency and intensity as Christ's return draws near. This is why Jesus mentioned this sign first when answering his disciples' questions "When will all this take place? And will there be any sign ahead of time to signal your return and the end of the world?"

According to Jesus, three things in particular will increase in frequency and intensity as the world draws closer to His return:

1) Wars

2) Famines

and

3) Earthquakes

Have we seen these three things increase in frequency and intensity in the recent past?

Yes!

Take a brief look at wars, famines, and earthquakes over the past 500 years.

Wars: A Sign of the End Times

According to a Wikipedia list of wars, the past 500 years have witnessed an increase in the frequency of wars:

15th Century -- 29 wars

16th Century -- 59 wars

17th Century -- 75 wars

18th Century -- 69 wars

19th Century -- 294 wars

20th Century -- 278 wars

The first decade of the 21st Century has already witnessed 55 wars, putting humanity on course for 550 wars over the next one hundred year period.

Have these wars increased in intensity?

Yes!

For most of human history, wars were fought through individual hand-to-hand combat. But the past few hundred years have witnessed the ascension of more accurate guns, machine guns, and aerial bombing. Today, a single weapon of mass destruction can kill hundreds of thousands of people.

Famines: A Sign of the End Times

According to a Wikipedia list of famines, the past 500 years have also witnessed an increase in the frequency of famines:

15th Century -- 6 famines

16th Century -- 10 famines

17th Century -- 24 famines

18th Century -- 28 famines

19th Century -- 30 famines

20th Century -- 44 famines

The first decade of the 21st Century alone has already witnessed 12 famines, putting humanity on course for 120 famines over the next one hundred year period.

Have these famines increased in intensity and severity?

Yes!

As the population of the world has grown, famines have caused more and more death and destruction in their wake. In fact, while the Roman Empire's entire population at the time of Jesus is estimated to have been approximately 55 million people, the first half of the 20th Century alone witnessed these famines:

The 1921 famine in Russia (5 million+ dead)

The 1928-1929 famine in China (3 million+ dead)

The 1932-1933 famine in Ukraine (2.6 and 10 million+ dead)

The 1932-1933 famine in Kazakhstan (1.2 and 1.5 million+ dead)

The 1936 famine in China (5 million+ dead)

The 1942-1943 famine in China (1 million+ dead)

The 1946-1947 famine in the Soviet Union (1 million+ dead)

That's an estimated 18.8 to 26.5 million who perished from famine just from these seven famines alone!

And from 1959 to 1961, the Great Chinese Famine is estimated to have killed more than 36 million people.

Famines have dramatically increased in both frequency and intensity since Jesus first answered His disciples' questions.

Earthquakes: Another Sign of the End Times

According to a Wikipedia list of earthquakes, the past 500 years have witnessed the following number of earthquakes described as a magnitude 7.0 or greater:

15th Century -- 2 earthquakes

16th Century -- 3 earthquakes

17th Century -- 7 earthquakes

18th Century -- 13 earthquakes

19th Century -- 29 earthquakes

20th Century -- 123 earthquakes

The first decade of the 21st Century has already witnessed 144 earthquakes with a magnitude of 7.0 or greater, putting humanity on course for 1,440 such earthquakes over the next one hundred year period!

The dramatic increase in devastating wars, famines, and earthquakes from the time of Jesus until today is one of clearest signs of the end times.

5) Rise of the Gog / Magog Alliance

Yet another sign of the end times is the current rise of the Gog / Magog Alliance.

The details of this future military alliance against Israel are found in the Book of Ezekiel, Chapters 38 and 39:

"This is another message that came to me from the Lord: 'Son of man, prophesy against Gog of the land of Magog, the prince who rules over the nations of Meshech and Tubal. Give him this message from the Sovereign Lord: Gog, I am your enemy! I will turn you around and put hooks into your jaws to lead you out to your destruction. I will mobilize your troops and cavalry and make you a vast and mighty horde, all fully armed. Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya will join you, too, with all their weapons. Gomer and all its hordes will also join you, along with the armies of Beth-togarmah from the distant north and many others.'"--Ezekiel 38:1-6

The nations cited in the verses above are associated with their Old Testament predecessors, but they all represent nations that exist today.

Below is a list of those nations, each followed by its modern day equivalent:

Magog, Meshech, and Tubal = Russia
Persia = Iran
Cush = Ethiopia
Put = Libya
Gomer = Turkey
Beth-togarmah = Turkey, Armenia, and the Turkish-speaking people of Asia Minor

According to God, Russia will mobilize a coalition that includes these nations in the last days.

Throughout human history, there's never been a cooperative military alliance between the nations of Russia and Iran -- at least until the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991.

Since then, a cooperative diplomatic and military alliance between Iran and Russia has formed and slowly expanded, ultimately leading to Russia's assistance in providing Iran with the necessary support to make the Bushehr nuclear power plant operational in 2010.

So when does the Bible tell us this alliance will form?

It definitely says, "in the last days":

"Get ready; be prepared! Keep all the armies around you mobilized, and take command of them. A long time from now you will be called into action. In the distant future you will swoop down on the land of Israel, which will be lying in peace after her recovery from war and after the return of her people from many lands. You and all your allies - a vast and awesome horde - will roll down on them like a storm and cover the land like a cloud."--Ezekiel 38:7-9

According to Strong's Concordance, "in the distant future" is better translated as "achariyth shaneh" which means "end years."

6) The Rise of Global Government

Another sign of the end times is the current trend toward globalization. According to the Book of Revelation, globalization involves more than just multinational corporations and global commerce. One day, a single man will rule all the people and nations on the earth:

"And he was given authority to rule over every tribe and people and language and nation."--Revelation 13:7

With each passing day more and more nations are ceding their sovereignty to larger institutions such as the European Union, the United Nations, the International Monetary Fund, and the World Court.

Given the current global financial crisis and the potential catastrophe of a global war, more and more diplomatic leaders and world politicians are calling for global government! They are calling for it TODAY--in fact, Obama just recently mentioned it again, and he has said it on numerous occasions. World leaders are calling for it, too, and this was predicted in the Bible to occur over 2,000 years ago!

As human technology continues to advance and mature, we're quickly reaching a point where global totalitarian rule will be possible. It's right at the cusp!

7) The Good News Preached Throughout the World

Jesus revealed the following sign of the end times to His disciples in response to their questions about the end of the age and the sign of His coming:

"And the Good News about the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, so that all nations will hear it; and then the end will come."--Matthew 24:14

According to Christ, His Coming is preceded by the preaching of the Gospel "throughout the whole world."

This idea is reiterated in the Book of Revelation.

"And I saw another angel flying through the sky, carrying the eternal Good News to proclaim to the people who belong to this world -- to every nation, tribe, language, and people. 'Fear God,' he shouted. 'Give glory to him. For the time has come when he will sit as judge. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and all the springs of water.'"--Revelation 14:6-7

In the time of Jesus, the Gospel was confined to a relatively small number of people in and around Israel. And much of the earth's land mass was completely unknown to the disciples of Jesus, so the odds of the disciples preaching the Gospel of Christ "throughout the whole world" in their own time was quite remote.

Yet, 2,000 years later, the Gospel is preached in every nation, the Bible is translated in hundreds of languages, and the Gospel of Christ is delivered through thousands of ministries via radio, cable TV, satellite, and the Internet.

Is this "the way it's always been?"

Nope!

The truth is our generation is closer to preaching the Gospel "throughout the whole world" than any preceding generation.

Those are just SEVEN signs of the end times, but they aren't the only signs! The Bible has much to say about the last days and the time of the end, and as followers of Christ, we are warned to recognize the signs of the times.

"Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near."--Matthew 24:28

Why?

Because if we acknowledge the signs of the end times as well as our Lord's command to stay awake and alert, we will be driven to live Godly lives. Paul emphasized this in his letter to the Romans:

"Another reason for right living is that you know how late it is; time is running out. Wake up, for the coming of our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed."--Romans 13:11

Remember, all prophecy exists to give a clear witness for Christ:

"For the essence of prophecy is to give a clear witness for Jesus."--Revelation 19:10

And prophecy is telling us that Christ is coming.

"In the same way, when you see all these things, you can know his return is very near, right at the door." --Matthew 24:33

The evidence and signs are before you, my friend. The only way is Christ! And believe me, like I said before, things are aligning PRECISELY as God stated that they would in the last days. Archeologists keep proving that the Bible is real on a daily basis, as well. The evidence is there for the taking

sorry its so long but theres so much to go through....what are your thoughts?




posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 09:38 PM
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I wasn't going to say this, but seeing as you said what are your thoughts. If they can convince people that a one world government is going to occur before the second coming, then automatically christians will see the notion of a one world government as a good thing because it means that the second coming is near. So they will vote for this, believeing that they have to. I think the bible is an amazing fabrication for TPTB to convince people that these events need to occur so they can be reunited with god. What happens if the vote for a one world government is passed, millions of people are killed and christ never does return. Good thread btw, this will get a lot of people thinking.



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 09:39 PM
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Hi ,you didn't mention that Zachariah 14 foretells of the Atomic Bomb or at least the unmistakable effects of the bomb . The events of today with the Mark of the Beast control system facilitated by this very internet system now being possible for the first time in history , the Global Gov. Movement, Satellite Television so that every eye will see the Two Witnesses dead in the streets of Jerusalem . The political positioning of Russia as well as Egypt . All of these things and much more are the manifestation of the plan of the bible .



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 09:43 PM
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reply to post by TheFallOfRa
 


I can see your point exactly but this was prophesised by god many many years before the rothchilds were on this planet and all these things must come to pass before the second coming.

yes i understand that it may look like its the perfect tool for the nwo to get its foothold over our world, but they will be taken care of when the second coming happens.

fear not what happens...if you have a heart full of love for the lord you will be spared at the time of redemption.



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 09:46 PM
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reply to post by NWOnoworldorder
 
NWOnoworldorder,

Well you are one of the few who have the picture rightly seen. The prophecy proves it, also proves God and His Redeemer are who they claim to be without any doubt. Most can't see it though. We are about to enter into the last phase of the last roundup too and it is going to be beyond belief. Will this happen? --

Da 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

It does have to have a finish.

Truthiron.



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 09:46 PM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 


lol well its long enough dont you think...but all other bible quotes and prophecies are welcome, if you do however quote, then please establish how it equates to our times, that way its easier for others to correlate the two, thanks for your input



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 09:50 PM
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reply to post by truthiron
 


yes every book has an end including the bible....and your right!

Like i said before those who carry love in their hearts for the lord wont have to worry, i just hope this opens some eyes and hearts, the end is truly upon us...everything has came to pass i just hope people relise this and repent their sins before his arrival



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 09:51 PM
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God has been coming up recently...not sure if it's because of these end time predictions but who really cares if people believe in god or not? Why is it so important to the debunkers to attempt to prove that their is no god? What really is to gain in stripping someone of their faith?



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by chrismarco
 


nothing has to be gained by stripping one of their faith however the point of this thread isnt really to have god debunked but to have people who perhaps have lost their way, or perhaps turned their back on god or who just dont believe...maybe if they read this thread it will light something in them....i believe in god...i love god and i hope that when the time comes i will be chosen to sit on his right hand, i hope that people will read and open their hearts to god....thats the point of this thread to make people think...to have non believers think...nothing more



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by NWOnoworldorder
 



I believe in a God, however you are beyond reason in your post. You always have the burden of proof, not the skeptics. Remember this, whether it be UFOs, Ghosts, Spirits, Monsters, Bigfoot, Shadow People, Aliens, Extra Dimensional Being, etc, YOU ALWAYS HAVE THE BURDEN OF PROOF.

ALWAYS


ALWAYS


ALWAYS

Wars will increase as lesser beings hit a technological awareness. Of course wars are on an increase in modern times, just as there will be a drastic decrease in wars 50 years from now. When beings have technology and survivability for long enough, they will advance beyond the simple wars and conflicts.

Give it time it will pass, however, when it comes to proving God, don't try. DOn't use quotes from old books written by old men seeking power.
edit on 15-12-2010 by TheOneElectric because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by TheOneElectric
 


thats a burden im prepared to carry if it means helping others to save their soul....jesus carried his burden...the crucifix for us ....im happy to carry my burden.
edit on 15-12-2010 by NWOnoworldorder because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 04:34 AM
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Does god exist.................................. ph

you are born, you take a step away from him by worship of science, and then you are looking for him on that road..

does god exist?.... don't you get burned from the inside out when you ask that hn? These are so full of trickery.

I give you some facts:

God created all.
God is love.
The cumcumber you struggle with is mine.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by NWOnoworldorder
 


*deep breath*


Originally posted by NWOnoworldorder
perhaps after reading my thoughts on the subject along with facts and data hopefully non-believers or poeple that say prove god exists may think twice.


After a skimming, I don't think I will.



It's always typical, and nearly cliche', for one to say, "People have been saying that we've been living in the last days since Christ died on the cross" or that "these things have always happened."


Actually, that's true. Jesus says it himself

Mark 13:30

"Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done."


This was in reference to the end times as Jesus describes in Mark 13.



Typically when a non-believer asks a believer to "point out certain verses for me"--this comes with a bit of sarcasm on their part (and I'm just saying this, in general), because most of the time the person could actually care less, even though they are asking the question, because they are merely asking it out of spite/sarcasm, because if one REALLY wants to know the truth, one can easily do the research themselves.


...the Bible is one hell of a long book, pun intended. And even if one does their own research, there's plenty that can be overlooked in such a long book. Now, I've read it myself three times, not found any passage that is particularly prophetic in it.



I'm going to prove to you that the Bible is real and that God is real.


Oh, I'm sure the Bible is real, I have a few in my house. It's an actual book that's full of actual false information. As for a deity, I'm not so sure.



I want you to at least hear me out here, whether you believe it or not, and read what I have to say at least out of respect, because I respect you, as well.


Well, thank you for the respect, but I'm already planning on replying to this monster of a post. Also, thank you for paragraphing. That is a serious, non-sarcastic thanks. Too many long posts on ATS lack paragraphing and are a bit difficult on the eyes.



First of all, Peter, in 2 Peter 3:3-4 forewarned that during the last days, people would come and say what you say ("they've been saying that for years" or scoffing at the reality of it all, etc., etc.):


To address the point...so the Bible preemptively goes: "People will disagree with you in the last days"...therefore it's true?

It's a religion, people will always disagree with it unless you're taking incredibly drastic steps to prevent this.



"Most importantly, I want to remind you that in the last days scoffers will come, mocking the truth and following their own desires. They will say, 'What happened to the promise that Jesus is coming again? From before the times of our ancestors, everything has remained the same since the world was first created.'"


Well....most atheists aren't actually saying that last bit. The world has changed drastically since the beginning of it. I mean, we've had 4.5 billion years and nobody would reasonably claim that it could have remained the same for such a long period of time.

Also, as I said before, this seems like preemptive damage control. Peter makes this claim just in case Jesus didn't come...now, again, Jesus claimed he would come before the death of the 12 apostles.

Now, I don't mock the truth. I don't even mock the Bible. Well, I mock a few parts of it, like the part about the two 'she-bears' killing the children. But the Bible isn't demonstrably true.



The particular version I hear most often is, "Sure, you think Jesus is coming, but so have previous generations."


Um...because they have. For a very long time.



The implication is that our generation will pass without the Second Coming just as those previous generations passed without His Coming.


Well, Jesus, by his own estimation, is off by 1970ish years.



Aside from being illogical,


How is it illogical? You can't make such a claim without backing it up. If you say something is illogical, you have to demonstrate it.



this assertion flies in the face of plain observation as well as mountains of irrefutable evidence.


Well, you think it's irrefutable...but let's see how it stands against scrutiny.



I always hear people say, "It's the same now as it's always been" or something along those lines.


...really? When?



But is it? Is it really the same? When non-believers tell me that there are no signs of the end times which are unique to our time, I am prepared to set the record straight.


Well, that's actually true.



Below are at least SEVEN clear signs of the end times, which highlight the nearness of Christ's return. In fact, He's so close He's knocking on the door. Read carefully:

1) The Holocaust and the Re-Emergence of Israel


I'm quite sure Jesus never mentions Germany, gas chambers, or the death of 6 million Jews...



One of the preeminent signs of the end times is the Jewish survival of the Holocaust and the re-emergence of the nation of Israel as a Jewish state.


Ok, how is this a sign of the end times?



Over 2,600 years ago, the prophet Ezekiel foretold these events:



"Then he said to me, 'Son of man, these bones represent the people of Israel. They are saying, 'We have become old, dry bones - all hope is gone.' Now give them this message from the Sovereign Lord: O my people, I will open your graves of exile and cause you to rise again. Then I will bring you back to the land of Israel. When this happens, O my people, you will know that I am the Lord." Ezekiel 37:11-13 (NLT)



What? I don't remember much of that happening.



As God says, the bones in Ezekiel 37 represent the people of Israel--otherwise known as the Jews. Following the first century Roman conquest of the Holy Land, the Jews were banished from the land of Israel. The Romans renamed the area Palestine, and exiled its people to farthest corners of the Roman Empire. Yet, in Ezekiel 37, God promised to bring the Jews out of exile. He promised to bring them back into the land of Israel. Not only did He promise to restore their nation, but God promised to do so by opening their "graves" at a time when the Jews feel that "all hope is gone."


Well, last time I checked nobody came out of any grave....but you're taking an awfully roundabout path to explaining how this says the world is going to end.



The aftermath of Hitler's Holocaust of the Jewish people created these very conditions, nearly destroying an entire race of people and draining the hope of countless survivors.


Actually...well, Jews aren't a race. They're a religious cultural group.
..anyway...that's a bit off topic.
They weren't nearly exterminated. Sure, their numbers were diminished severely and I'm not trying to deny the horror of the event, but there were still millions of Jews left. Honestly, there were still around 10 million Jews left.



But out of the Holocaust, God brought the Jewish people back into the land of Israel, just as He had promised. On May 14, 1948, the nation of Israel reappeared in fulfillment of not just Ezekiel 37:11-13, but countless Old Testament prophecies.


No, the international community did that, primarily Britain. Also, it happened about three years after WW2 and required a lot of internal struggle.

This is, at best, a self-fulfilling prophecy.



Of all the signs of the end times, the re-establishment of Israel as an independent nation is the clearest and most unmistakable sign that we are in the last of the last days.


It's not unmistakable, it's incredibly vague. If there were more specifics it would be a lot more convincing.



2) Jerusalem is a Burden to the World

Another visible sign of the end times is the world diplomatic struggle over Jerusalem.


No, this is simply a sign of how badly the British and the international community handled the recreation of an Iron Age kingdom.

The prophet Zechariah foresaw this event centuries ago:



"I will make Jerusalem and Judah like an intoxicating drink to all the nearby nations that send their armies to besiege Jerusalem. On that day I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone, a burden for the world. None of the nations who try to lift it will escape unscathed."--Zechariah 12:2-3

Since 1967 when the Israelis retook Jerusalem in the Six Day War, the division of Jerusalem and ownership of the Temple Mount in particular, have been a source of countless U.N. resolutions, diplomatic crises, and calls for war.


Ok, but how is that making it a 'burden to the world'? It's a burden to...the region.



The struggle over the "Peace Process" in the Middle East is the stated number one priority of world diplomats, and Jerusalem resides at the center of discussions about "land for peace."


I'm sorry, but that's incorrect. I'd like evidence that the diplomatic community's number 1 priority is Jersusalem.



With the threat of World War III casting a shadow over every decision to rebuild Jewish settlements or expand Israeli society, the City of Jerusalem is no doubt "a burden for the world."


...that's also not true. The threat of WW3 doesn't arise every time Israel builds more settlements.



Is this "the way it's always been"?

No!


Um...been like this since...1945.



Until this generation, Jerusalem was not "a burden for the world." In fact, prior to 1948, world diplomatic leaders rarely mentioned it.


Evidence. Prove it.



3) The Dramatic Increase in Travel and Knowledge

One of the signs of the end times that anyone can easily recognize is the recent explosive increase in travel and knowledge.

In a vision, God revealed to Daniel that in "the time of the end," travel and knowledge will increase:


...travel and knowledge have always increased.



"But you, Daniel, keep this prophecy a secret; seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rush here and there, and knowledge will increase."--Daniel 12:4

According to the book of Daniel, two things will increase in "the time of the end"--travel and knowledge.

Is this the case now?

Yes!


As it has always been. Though in that passage...how is that a reference to an increase in travel? It just says "Many will rush here and there"
That doesn't mean that people will travel more, it just means they're rushing "here and there"



At the time the Book of Daniel was written, horses were the world's the fastest mode of transportation.


No, boats were.



In fact, horses remained the world's fastest mode of transportation for over 2,000 years until the Industrial Revolution spawned such innovations as the steam boat, the locomotive, and the horseless carriage.


The non-steam boat was already faster than a horse. There was a reason people preferred to take trips by sea rather than overland.



Prior to the 20th Century, most people rarely traveled more than 30 miles from where they were born. Today, people routinely travel from one continent to another within the same day.


But that's not what is described in Daniel. Tell me how you derive 'world travel' from the phrase "rush here and there" Please, show me in the Hebrew where it says people will travel that much.




Today's world is definitely not "the way it's always been."

Frequency and speed of travel have markedly increased!


...well, it's been steadily increasing for several hundred years, as you pointed out already. But again, travel speeds are not mentioned nor is world travel or distance.

It just says "rush here and there"



What about knowledge?


Has been increasing steadily for hundreds of years....
And this suffers from another problem. Where in the passage does it say that worldwide knowledge will increase? It seems to me, contextually, that this is referring to knowledge of the aforementioned prophecy rather than world knowledge. Hence the command to hide this prophecy.



In Daniel's time, few people received a formal education. In fact, basic literacy was a foreign concept to all but an elite minority of the world until the past 100 to 150 years.


I'm sorry, but you're a bit off.

In France the literacy rate hit half at around 1775. That's a lot more than 100-150 years ago.



Yet, in the past century alone, human knowledge of science, biology, technology, and countless fields of endeavor has exploded. And the advent of the Internet has created a worldwide archive of human knowledge that far exceeds even the wildest dreams of the great ancient civilizations.

Is humanity's knowledge base today "the same as previous generations"?

Absolutely not. Human knowledge has also markedly increased.


And will continue to do so at an exponential rate. Of course it has always increased. Nobody is
arguing that it isn't more now, but it's always been increasing.



Given that all this can be ascertained from mere observation, how can anyone say with a straight face that "things today are the same as they've always been"?


They are the same, they've always been moving forward.





4) Exponential Growth Marks the Times


Modern medicine is going to come up a lot here.



If a marked increase in travel and knowledge constitute one of the most clearly observable signs of the end times, then the two are merely components of a much larger sign of the end times--exponential growth.


Thank modern medicine and industrialization. However, plenty of people have died since this exponential growth. We hit 5 billion, then 6 billion, next year we're hitting 7 billion. Exponential growth has been happening since the Industrial Revolution in the 1700s.



Jesus pointed to exponential growth as a sign of His Coming:

"Later, Jesus sat on the slopes of the Mount of Olives. His disciples came to him privately and asked, 'When will all this take place? And will there be any sign ahead of time to signal your return and the end of the world?' Jesus told them, 'Don't let anyone mislead you. For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Messiah.' They will lead many astray. And wars will break out near and far, but don't panic. Yes, these things must come, but the end won't follow immediately. The nations and kingdoms will proclaim war against each other, and there will be famines and earthquakes in many parts of the world. But all this will be only the beginning of the horrors to come.'"--Matthew 24:3-8


...where is exponential growth? Famines...earthquakes...wars...false prophets....but...I don't see any mention of population increase.



This translation fails to communicate an important revelation from Jesus--that the end times will be analogous to the birthing process.


Why yes, it does. The NIV would have been better, as it actually does call them "birth pains"



According to Strong's Concordance, the word "horrors" as translated above comes from the word "odin" which is best translated as "the pain of childbirth" or "birth pangs."


Hey, you got something right.

Oh, and ATS allows you to put in the original Greek: ὠδίν as well as the transliteration ōdin. Just copy/paste. Just a quick tip.



This means that, much like birth pangs, signs of the end times will appear with greater frequency and intensity as Christ's return draws near.


Ok, what does this have to do with population growth? Or did "exponential growth" refer to something else?

Ah, I get it now, you meant an acceleration of the events leading up to things, not "exponential growth with relation to population", my bad. I will not edit this misunderstanding out.



This is why Jesus mentioned this sign first when answering his disciples' questions "When will all this take place? And will there be any sign ahead of time to signal your return and the end of the world?"

According to Jesus, three things in particular will increase in frequency and intensity as the world draws closer to His return:

1) Wars

2) Famines

and

3) Earthquakes


All
of which
have happened
before.



Have we seen these three things increase in frequency and intensity in the recent past?

Yes!


Ohhhhkay... data please?



Take a brief look at wars, famines, and earthquakes over the past 500 years.

Wars: A Sign of the End Times


Where is your evidence that war has increased in the last 500 year?



According to a Wikipedia list of wars, the past 500 years have witnessed an increase in the frequency of wars:

15th Century -- 29 wars

16th Century -- 59 wars

17th Century -- 75 wars

18th Century -- 69 wars

19th Century -- 294 wars

20th Century -- 278 wars


(emphasis mine)

Well, your data set shows that warfare has started to decrease....

...there are currently 31 going armed conflicts.



The first decade of the 21st Century has already witnessed 55 wars, putting humanity on course for 550 wars over the next one hundred year period.


...um...no...that's not how it works. Also, where's your data source? And what's your definition of war?

I understand why you think that you can derive the number of wars by multiplying the number of wars in the first decade by 10...but that's not how mathematics works. Or how predicting the future works.

Now, by your logic there should have only been 70 wars in the 20th century.

Sociopolitical forces don't break down on simple multiplication.



Have these wars increased in intensity?

Yes!


No, they've increased in technological capability. Intensity is a relative term.



For most of human history, wars were fought through individual hand-to-hand combat. But the past few hundred years have witnessed the ascension of more accurate guns, machine guns, and aerial bombing. Today, a single weapon of mass destruction can kill hundreds of thousands of people.


Ok, but how does that show that it's more 'intense'. You didn't define 'intense' with regard to war. They're just more technologically sophisticated.

You also forgot to take into account population statistics and density with regard to those.



Famines: A Sign of the End Times

According to a Wikipedia list of famines, the past 500 years have also witnessed an increase in the frequency of famines:

15th Century -- 6 famines

16th Century -- 10 famines

17th Century -- 24 famines

18th Century -- 28 famines

19th Century -- 30 famines

20th Century -- 44 famines


You keep saying "according to wikipedia", would it kill you to provide a link? I mean, I found the source with some searching, but it's just polite.

Now, you haven't scaled these famines to population statistics, nor have you scaled them to economic indicators...hell, you've just listed them.

More people = more famines. Simple as that.



The first decade of the 21st Century alone has already witnessed 12 famines, putting humanity on course for 120 famines over the next one hundred year period.


...you cannot do that. It's simplistic mathematics that isn't supported by any statistical model.



Have these famines increased in intensity and severity?

Yes!


By what measure? I mean, are you scaling severity to population statistics?



As the population of the world has grown, famines have caused more and more death and destruction in their wake. In fact, while the Roman Empire's entire population at the time of Jesus is estimated to have been approximately 55 million people, the first half of the 20th Century alone witnessed these famines:


The 1921 famine in Russia (5 million+ dead)


Not scaled to population...therefore not as severe. Severity isn't based on something like raw outcome. A nation isn't more affluent based on its GDP, it's based on the per capita income. This isn't a per capita study, therefore you're not measuring severity.



The 1928-1929 famine in China (3 million+ dead)


Also not scaled...



The 1932-1933 famine in Ukraine (2.6 and 10 million+ dead)


Not scaled



The 1932-1933 famine in Kazakhstan (1.2 and 1.5 million+ dead)


Not scaled....



The 1936 famine in China (5 million+ dead)

The 1942-1943 famine in China (1 million+ dead)

The 1946-1947 famine in the Soviet Union (1 million+ dead)

That's an estimated 18.8 to 26.5 million who perished from famine just from these seven famines alone!

And from 1959 to 1961, the Great Chinese Famine is estimated to have killed more than 36 million people.


...not scaled.



Famines have dramatically increased in both frequency and intensity since Jesus first answered His disciples' questions.


And yet you've not scaled the frequency or intensity to the population statistics, therefore rendering your findings...pointless. Granted, your idea of statistical projection is basic multiplication.



Earthquakes: Another Sign of the End Times

According to a Wikipedia list of earthquakes, the past 500 years have witnessed the following number of earthquakes described as a magnitude 7.0 or greater:


Last time I checked, seismography wasn't very reliable until the last 100 years...so statistics from 500 years ago are going to be...worthless. You're simply working with a gap of information. For all I know the following statistics simply represent a greater increase in seismograph sensitivity.

And again, cite your sources!



The first decade of the 21st Century has already witnessed 144 earthquakes with a magnitude of 7.0 or greater, putting humanity on course for 1,440 such earthquakes over the next one hundred year period!


...and again you make the same mistake. You cannot do that, and by that I mean use simple multiplication for a statistical projection!

I just rolled a standard 6 sided die that I had running around on my desk 10 times. I got the following results: 4, 2, 6, 5, 3, 6, 6, 3, 1, 2. So if I follow your method, if I rolled it 100 times I'd get the following results

1: 10 times
2: 20 times
3: 20 times
4: 10 times
5: 10 times
6: 30 times

Now, of course this is false, it doesn't break down along the easily predicted statistics of rolling a 6 sided die. I should get each side approximately 16 times if I roll it 100 times.

Now, this is even more ridiculous when you're dealing with something like earthquakes.



The dramatic increase in devastating wars, famines, and earthquakes from the time of Jesus until today is one of clearest signs of the end times.


Again, not that clear. You used ridiculously simple mathematics and a lack of proper sampling without also taking into account population statistics for anything you just said.



5) Rise of the Gog / Magog Alliance

Yet another sign of the end times is the current rise of the Gog / Magog Alliance.


Ugh, not this again...


The details of this future military alliance against Israel are found in the Book of Ezekiel, Chapters 38 and 39:

"This is another message that came to me from the Lord: 'Son of man, prophesy against Gog of the land of Magog, the prince who rules over the nations of Meshech and Tubal. Give him this message from the Sovereign Lord: Gog, I am your enemy! I will turn you around and put hooks into your jaws to lead you out to your destruction. I will mobilize your troops and cavalry and make you a vast and mighty horde, all fully armed. Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya will join you, too, with all their weapons. Gomer and all its hordes will also join you, along with the armies of Beth-togarmah from the distant north and many others.'"--Ezekiel 38:1-6

The nations cited in the verses above are associated with their Old Testament predecessors, but they all represent nations that exist today.

Below is a list of those nations, each followed by its modern day equivalent:

Magog, Meshech, and Tubal = Russia
Persia = Iran
Cush = Ethiopia
Put = Libya
Gomer = Turkey
Beth-togarmah = Turkey, Armenia, and the Turkish-speaking people of Asia Minor


Again, cite your sources for the information above.



According to God, Russia will mobilize a coalition that includes these nations in the last days.


...ok, and none of the above nations are considering a move against Israel...even Iran.



Throughout human history, there's never been a cooperative military alliance between the nations of Russia and Iran -- at least until the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991.


Throughout most of human history Russia wasn't a nation.



Since then, a cooperative diplomatic and military alliance between Iran and Russia has formed and slowly expanded, ultimately leading to Russia's assistance in providing Iran with the necessary support to make the Bushehr nuclear power plant operational in 2010.


I'm sorry, but where's your evidence that their alliance is a 'military' one?
Also, where are all the other nations listed?



So when does the Bible tell us this alliance will form?

It definitely says, "in the last days":

"Get ready; be prepared! Keep all the armies around you mobilized, and take command of them. A long time from now you will be called into action. In the distant future you will swoop down on the land of Israel, which will be lying in peace after her recovery from war and after the return of her people from many lands. You and all your allies - a vast and awesome horde - will roll down on them like a storm and cover the land like a cloud."--Ezekiel 38:7-9

According to Strong's Concordance, "in the distant future" is better translated as "achariyth shaneh" which means "end years."


Only if you cherry pick Strong's Concordance:

Here's a link to it with the relevant word that I'm going to dispute.

According to Strong the word "achariyth" has several definitions...why are you choosing that one?


1) after part, end
a) end, issue, event
b) latter time (prophetic for future time)
c) posterity
d) last, hindermost




6) The Rise of Global Government


...le sigh....



Another sign of the end times is the current trend toward globalization. According to the Book of Revelation, globalization involves more than just multinational corporations and global commerce. One day, a single man will rule all the people and nations on the earth:


...no, that's never going to happen. Aside from the impossible logistics of it, the impossible power struggle between 6-7 billion people would never allow for a single individual to exert that much control.



"And he was given authority to rule over every tribe and people and language and nation."--Revelation 13:7


And that will never happen.



With each passing day more and more nations are ceding their sovereignty to larger institutions such as the European Union, the United Nations, the International Monetary Fund, and the World Court.


No, they really aren't. And I live in an EU member state, we really tend to ignore the EU on issues of sovereign law.

The UN on the other hand is...well, a joke. Nobody listens to its resolutions. Sure, it does great things, but it's definitely never going to become a global government.



Given the current global financial crisis and the potential catastrophe of a global war, more and more diplomatic leaders and world politicians are calling for global government!


No, they're calling for global cooperation



They are calling for it TODAY--in fact, Obama just recently mentioned it again, and he has said it on numerous occasions.


[citation needed]

...seriously, I'm running out of ways to ask you to cite your sources.



World leaders are calling for it, too, and this was predicted in the Bible to occur over 2,000 years ago!


Again, [citation needed]



As human technology continues to advance and mature, we're quickly reaching a point where global totalitarian rule will be possible. It's right at the cusp!


Again, citation needed



7) The Good News Preached Throughout the World

Jesus revealed the following sign of the end times to His disciples in response to their questions about the end of the age and the sign of His coming:

"And the Good News about the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, so that all nations will hear it; and then the end will come."--Matthew 24:14


Umm...and 20 verses later he says:


Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.




According to Christ, His Coming is preceded by the preaching of the Gospel "throughout the whole world."


Which has been done for a few hundred years now.

I'm just going to skip over the next bit because you just reiterate how much it's preached and I've had enough large block quoting.



Is this "the way it's always been?"

Nope!


Well, the Bible was preached all around the world...for a long time. Ever since we've had access to all the continents.



The truth is our generation is closer to preaching the Gospel "throughout the whole world" than any preceding generation.


...by what measure? You've not provided a single standard of measurement of anything



Those are just SEVEN signs of the end times, but they aren't the only signs! The Bible has much to say about the last days and the time of the end, and as followers of Christ, we are warned to recognize the signs of the times.


Of course it does...



"Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near."--Matthew 24:28



....again


Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


It's right there in the text that you've cited twice



Why?

Because if we acknowledge the signs of the end times as well as our Lord's command to stay awake and alert, we will be driven to live Godly lives. Paul emphasized this in his letter to the Romans:

"Another reason for right living is that you know how late it is; time is running out. Wake up, for the coming of our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed."--Romans 13:11


....he's saying that time is running out over a thousand years ago.



Remember, all prophecy exists to give a clear witness for Christ:

"For the essence of prophecy is to give a clear witness for Jesus."--Revelation 19:10


You've not provided any clear instance of prophecy being fulfilled. You're actually just working things around to fit with prophecy...



And prophecy is telling us that Christ is coming.

"In the same way, when you see all these things, you can know his return is very near, right at the door." --Matthew 24:33


Ok, now this is ridiculous, you're adjacent to the passage I've cited repeatedly!


Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.




The evidence and signs are before you, my friend. The only way is Christ! And believe me, like I said before, things are aligning PRECISELY as God stated that they would in the last days.


...the Bible isn't very precise in any of the passages you proposed. There isn't even an example of a specific time frame except for "This generation shall not pass"



Archeologists keep proving that the Bible is real on a daily basis, as well. The evidence is there for the taking


No, they really don't.

Also, archeologists, geologists, biologists, and cosmologists have disproved basically the whole book of Genesis...



sorry its so long but theres so much to go through....what are your thoughts?


Well, you're wrong. In fact, if you scale any of your numbers to population statistics (except for earthquakes, I'm throwing that one away because of the technological issues), the phenomenon decrease.

This post is full of holes and has proved nothing.
edit on 16/12/10 by madnessinmysoul because: fixed formatting mistake.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by madness mysoul
 


You say that you believe Ina God . That's very odd . The Devil knows God .The oldest account of the history of the world is given to you in a book that foretells what is happening right now . You fail to actually understand what you have read of the bible because of your mind set . When Jesus spoke of the Fig Tree putting forth it's leaves he was talking about when Israel became a nation again . Remember that He said Israel would be scattered . He was talking about the end times . The Mark of the Beast could not be inforced until the advent of the Internet . If you choose not to believe we can say nothing to change your mind but explain to me : How did life begin without DNA or RNA . They are not a random occurence in nature , nor is the cell that supports that DNA .Science shot it's self in the foot for sure . Also explain how you came up with the 5million years for the age of the earth . Carbon Dating is good for less than 60,000 years scientist say . And that range is speculation given the varying concentrations of Radio Carbon 14 in the atmosphere says scientist .
You might say earth was seeded but by whom? Your research and information given on this site would be impressive if it were correct and not taken out of context . May God Bless You and you seek the Truth .



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 



Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by madness mysoul
 


You say that you believe Ina God . That's very odd . The Devil knows God .


...no, I say I don't believe in any deity...



The oldest account of the history of the world is given to you in a book that foretells what is happening right now .


It's far from the oldest account. It's not even the oldest religious writing. The Sumerians have older mythic writings than the Bible.

And I handily demonstrated that it didn't foretell what's happening now. It just said a few very vague things about some future time.



You fail to actually understand what you have read of the bible because of your mind set .


...no, I read the Bible the first time as a very devout Christian. Now I'm an atheist. The only difference is that now I find reading the Bible to be slightly less tedious after the first time.



When Jesus spoke of the Fig Tree putting forth it's leaves he was talking about when Israel became a nation again .


Um...can you explain how that makes sense? He said a generation won't pass before all the things he'd talked about would pass. He didn't say a generation from the refounding of Israel, he said a generation.



Remember that He said Israel would be scattered .


That it would be scattered and reinstated in a generation...



He was talking about the end times .


Which he thought were imminent...or at least the author did.



The Mark of the Beast could not be inforced until the advent of the Internet .


Well, I disagree with you there. Forehead branding or tattooing would be pretty easy to enforce with some light patrolling at any time in the few hundred years after Jesus death.



If you choose not to believe we can say nothing to change your mind but explain to me :


...I don't choose not to believe, I lack the amount of necessary evidence. But now I'm going to have to explain stuff that's really supposed to be discussed in Origins and Creationism



How did life begin without DNA or RNA . They are not a random occurence in nature , nor is the cell that supports that DNA .


Current scientific thought on abiogenesis puts for RNA as the self-replicating molecule that was the foundation of proto-life. Now, the components of RNA do arise in the environment of the Earth as it was found about 3 billion years ago.



Science shot it's self in the foot for sure .


Nope, it really didn't.



Also explain how you came up with the 5million years for the age of the earth .


...I didn't. I would say 4.5 billion is a far more accurate number. That's billion, with a b.

And I didn't come up with it, qualified geologists came up with it, then submitted it for review in their academic community, then it was scrutinized and everyone has agreed up till now that the evidence was unassailable.

Here's a more detailed piece from the United States Geological Society




Carbon Dating is good for less than 60,000 years scientist say . And that range is speculation given the varying concentrations of Radio Carbon 14 in the atmosphere says scientist .


And Carbon Dating isn't the only radiometric technique we have.



You might say earth was seeded but by whom?


...I never said that. In fact, I find that idea to be a bit...pointless. It just creates a regression.



Your research and information given on this site would be impressive if it were correct and not taken out of context .


...well, I've never posted anything from an external source that was incorrect factually or taken out of context unless you can show me that I have.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 08:01 PM
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Well stated & organized, sister! Thanks & hugs. Occam & Sherlock would both have to agree methinks


Poor little angry madnessinhissoul. What do you think might happen for him if we were all to say a passionate & humble prayer for him today?


You have the gift of encouragement NWO, and my baby-steps have been blessed by many things you share around the boards here.

Yep, the darkest of days are upon the world, but glory be the Kingdom of God. O death, where is thy sting?



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by madness mysoul
 


Prove that RNA can assimilate it's self within a living cell how ever you can explain where the cell came from , replicate it's self ect. Prove that your favorite dating method is dependable at all . With less than 6000 years of somewhat reliable history you extrapolate 4.5 million years . You read someone else's theory and accepted it as fact just like Nanobot science .
If you have understanding you would find that Jesus was asked about the signs of the end times and of his 2nd coming in Matthew chapter 24 starting from the 1st verse leading up to verse 32 . Verse 2 tells of the destruction of the Temple and the results were that the Jews were driven out from Israel . The "Fig Tree" is in reference to the Jewish Nation once again taking their rightful place . That happened in 1948 officially . A generation lived 70 years per the 3 score and 10 .
The Bible 2500 years ago told of a plague that can only be the direct result of a nuclear bomb blast in Zachariah chapter 14 verse 12 . And as far as controlling buy sell and trade get real . The Verichip system can control completely you economic viability , and ownership of property . And the verse said everyone not written in the Book of Life . The Bible is pretty specific about events of the endtimes .
The New World Order fits right in the endtimes if you were to look at it . The Antichrist will rule it and impose his Mark on every one who doesn't reject him . His rule would be impossible without it . The next really big event shouls be the attack on Israel that will devestate Israel and they will use their nukes . Russia will be dragged down to stop it .The Antichrist will allow the Temple to be built .
Sit back and watch the show unfold . God help us all !



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 07:58 AM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


thankyou for your excellent and informative response, but the only real reply i have to it is this....im a catholic and how i and many others interprate the bible is what i originally posted..that is MY belief, you may interprate the bible in a completely different way, i dont know what faith you are but the fact that you have read the bible three times is something to be proud of, ive only read the bible from begining to end twice.

however i do like to read chapters of the bible especially revelations, as i feel this part is important .

im not trying to scare people and im not standing here with a placard reading the end is nigh..but for those who do believe in god and accept him into their hearts, what i have written and tried to break down as much as i can for those who perhaps arent as well versed in the bible....will be able to connect the dots so to speak.

we all come from different faiths and beliefs and worship "different gods" but really its all the same, the story changes but its all the same.

all i hope to gain from this thread is to make people think....if i can do that then im happy.

again thankyou for your reply

star for you



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by The GUT
 


thankyou very much for your lovely comment


as for madnessinhissoul well its completely up to him how he wants to interprate the bible....but ill say a prayer for him of course.

thanks again
god bless you and yours x



posted on Dec, 17 2010 @ 09:22 AM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 



Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by madness mysoul
 


Prove that RNA can assimilate it's self within a living cell how ever you can explain where the cell came from , replicate it's self ect.


That's ridiculously off-topic and has absolutely nothing to do with the post I made. It's really all a matter of chemistry. I can provide more, but this thread is about specifics. Instead of attacking science, please stick to the topic. I'm not avoiding the question, I just don't want to drag another person's thread off topic. Ask me in O&C and I'll be more than happy to answer any questions you have.



Prove that your favorite dating method is dependable at all .


...really? Um...radioactive decay is insanely constant. We use it as the basis for the most precise clocks in the world.
For more info, as to not drag this thread insanely off topic, please go to this incredibly detailed article, though it is clear you didn't read the last article I referred you to.




With less than 6000 years of somewhat reliable history you extrapolate 4.5 million years .


....history is just something about humans. We don't even factor in with regards to geologic time. And you're clearly not reading things well. I said 4.5 Billion years. I emphasized the b previously.

It's not an extrapolation, it's a result of testable, repeatable, provable scientific measurement.



You read someone else's theory and accepted it as fact just like Nanobot science .


It's a 'theory' because it's a widely accepted scientific view. A 'theory' is responsible for the computer you're using, it's called circuit 'theory'.

I accept it as fact because it's based upon solid evidence, solid reasoning, and has been scrutinized by hundreds and thousands of scientists.



If you have understanding you would find that Jesus was asked about the signs of the end times and of his 2nd coming in Matthew chapter 24 starting from the 1st verse leading up to verse 32 . Verse 2 tells of the destruction of the Temple and the results were that the Jews were driven out from Israel . The "Fig Tree" is in reference to the Jewish Nation once again taking their rightful place . That happened in 1948 officially . A generation lived 70 years per the 3 score and 10 .


...what? I'm sorry, but you're mistaken. Jesus isn't talking about a generation from the time. The Greek grammar (per Strong's Concordance) is quite clear that he's talking about the generation alive at the time he's making the claim

Oh, and since when was the average age 70 years in the first century? I'm quite sure it was reasonably shorter.



The Bible 2500 years ago told of a plague that can only be the direct result of a nuclear bomb blast in Zachariah chapter 14 verse 12 .


...plagues aren't a result of nuclear weapons...



And as far as controlling buy sell and trade get real . The Verichip system can control completely you economic viability , and ownership of property . And the verse said everyone not written in the Book of Life . The Bible is pretty specific about events of the endtimes .


No, it really isn't. Not a single amount of time is given for things to pass (except for Jesus saying that a generation isn't going to pass from the time he said it).

And Verichip is something that won't make it into the market. Aside from the obvious issues of tissue rejection (ask anyone who has received a piercing anywhere but their ears, it isn't fun) and the logistics of implanting several billion of them? I mean, a double-digit percentage would probably have rejection or migration issues with the implant.

It also cannot be enforced by law in pretty much any country with a relative level of democracy.



The New World Order fits right in the endtimes if you were to look at it . The Antichrist will rule it and impose his Mark on every one who doesn't reject him . His rule would be impossible without it .


Again, an impossible thing logistically. A global government? Hell, at the very least it would require several drawn out armed conflicts to achieve. Nations like North Korea, Iran, Russia, China, the USA, Canada, Britain, France...you know what, every single damn country in the world since I'm not going to bother listing them. How would they all fall in line?



The next really big event shouls be the attack on Israel that will devestate Israel and they will use their nukes . Russia will be dragged down to stop it .The Antichrist will allow the Temple to be built .
Sit back and watch the show unfold . God help us all !


Again, no proper evidence provided.




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