Concerning Bill Schnoebelen

I find myself in the odd position of defending a 60 year old evangelical who claims to have been a vampire and a member of the Illuminati. The point of this thread is that I can't find a professional debunking of this guy. People just go after the stuff that is really out there and say, "Come on! You can't really believe this guy, can you?" I'm just pointing out that this isn't satisfactory. I have never seen a point by point debunking of him, and likely never will, because Masons would have to divulge much of their secrets to prove they were innocent and he is a liar. The only thing he's said that I know to be false is his assertion that H.P. Lovecraft never married (perhaps this was an oversight). This is a really awful mistake because his wife Sonia Green is the classic connection between Lovecraft and Crowley. He did point out interesting comparisons between the Great Old Ones and pantheon of hideous old gods that Crowley claimed to have associated with, but the claim that Lovecraft never married is a glaring mistake.

reply to post by kallisti36


While all of what you said is accurate, you are limiting the symbol of the 5 pointed star to modern interpretations.

To find in the BLAZING STAR of five points an allusion to the Divine Providence, is also fanciful; and to make it commemorative of the Star that is said to have guided the Magi, is to give it a meaning comparatively modern. Originally it represented SIRIUS, or the Dog-star, the forerunner of the inundation of the Nile; the God ANUBIS, companion of ISIS in her search for the body of OSIRIS, her brother and husband. Then it became the image of HORUS, the son of OSIRIS, himself symbolized also by the Sun, the author of the Seasons, and the God of Time; Son of ISIS, who was the universal nature, himself the primitive matter, inexhaustible source of Life, spark of uncreated fire, universal seed of all beings. It was HERMES, also, the Master of Learning, whose name in Greek is that of the God Mercury.

Albert Pike begins to elaborate on the origins of the 5 pointed star in the very first chapter of Morals and Dogma.

Of vital importance, IMO, is this piece here:

It became the sacred and potent sign or character of the Magi, the PENTALPHA, and is the significant emblem of Liberty and Freedom, blazing with a steady radiance amid the weltering elements of good and evil of Revolutions, and promising serene skies and fertile seasons to the nations, after the storms of change and tumult

In all Ancient time keeping civilizations the Eastern Star has been used as a point of reference, in conjunction with the Sun and Moon, for seasons of agriculture, periods of broad distress, and a symbol of Diety, representing the various gods listed above. Long before it was a pagan or satanic symbol it was revered by ancient man for much more practical, spiritual, and beneficial purposes. The Ancients, being far more synchronous with Nature and the Universe as a whole, had a much broader understanding of the cycles of all the planets (at that time they counted 7; the Moon, Mercury, Venus, the Sun, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn), the most important of these was Venus, the Bright Morning Star.

reply to post by W3RLIED2


Still Pagan. Also the Star of Sirius is often associated with Set (who is often associated with Satan) and was a very hated star, because at its height were the dog days of summer. During the Dog Days of Summer, the heat in egypt was awful, the nile receded and the crops died.

reply to post by kallisti36

While all of what you said is accurate,

Once again, I agree, it is Pagan. I was just trying to show you that there is much more history to it than just being Pagan and Satanic. Any way, I wasn't intending on derailing this into another Pike discussion. I have no expertise on Bill Schnoebelen so I'll leave you to it.

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by kallisti36

 

While all of what you said is accurate,

Once again, I agree, it is Pagan. I was just trying to show you that there is much more history to it than just being Pagan and Satanic. Any way, I wasn't intending on derailing this into another Pike discussion. I have no expertise on Bill Schnoebelen so I'll leave you to it.

So Bill, from a Christian perspective is right in that Christians should not be masons. Perhaps he lied about the rest because he thought it would be justified if he could get Masons to leave the craft and become Christians. Again, I'm speculating.

We're talking about Pike at the moment and Pike doesn't represent all of Freemasonry because he was only Scottish Rite. I take it that the masons in this thread are mostly Scottish or York Rite Masons, being the most popular. Tell me, are there certain Rites that your average mason would view as 'creepy' or 'fringe'? Schnoebelen puts alot of emphasis on Memphiz and Mitzraim and gives the impression that this Rite is worse and has more people in it that 'know the truth'.

Wow an ex- mason, satanist, mormon, reptile, illuminati member. This is to good to be true

Originally posted by Schrödinger
Wow an ex- mason, satanist, mormon, reptile, illuminati member. This is to good to be true

You see, this is the problem. Whenever, Schnoebelen gets brought up everyone takes the appeal to ridicule path instead of actually addressing his claims. Like in this thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...

What an absolute slaughter. I didn't learn a damn thing from the nay-sayers. I got "what a dufus" "what a fruitcake" etc. Put up or shut up. We've already begun addressing his claims and for the most part he's right about much of the symbolism. Freemasonry has alot of issues that need to be addressed if they are to be exhonerated of the terrible things they are accused of. William Morgan was almost definately killed by Masons, there is Pagan (if not Satanic) symbolism being used, there is substantial evidence that Jack the Ripper was a Mason ("The Juwes will not be blamed for nothing") and evaded capture because so many officials involved were masons, known connection (atleast in the beginning) to the Bavarian Illuminati, connection to the French Revolution and subsequent Reign of Terror, and then there are the alleged ritual abuse scandals (which may or may not be the acts of individuals). This is really bad press and not all of it is without credibility, Freemasons need to address these things by either proving them false or showing that the mistakes of the past haven't been carried into the present. I'm not even listing the really esoteric stuff that can't be proven or effectively debunked, like degrees higher than 33 or a Satanic conspiracy.

Still all of this aside, my personal view is that the Illuminati doesn't need to recruit anymore. They've had 200+ years to recruit mad idealists on power trips (Schnoebelen fit that bill according to the Witches he associated with) and most ATSers agree they continue now by bloodlines. If there ever was a way into the Elite Cabals via Masonry, it has been closed for a long time. Masonry has a terrible PR history making them a very poor secret society front seeing how they are under constant scrutiny. I guarantee that thousands of people have joined hoping to expose a Satanic conspiracy (as if a vast Satanic conspiracy wouldn't see right through that) and have been dissapointed.

But it does matter, just like David Ickes claims of reptiles controlling us.
He is a liar. 90th degree? that makes absolutely no sense. I believe there are higher degrees, but 90 as a number just makes no sense. It is not even a master number.
I also do not believe that the illuminati is a society you can join. I do not believe it to be connected except at the highest peak, and then again that connection is not direct.
Satanism has nothing to do with mysticism, ancient geometry, alchemy, gnosticism, esoteric knowledge. The inverted pentagram is not a satanic symbol, it predates satanism with many thousand of years, just like the swastika predates Nazism with several thousand years.

And why does this matter, because it demeanor the rest of the case he presents. He does not have his facts straight, he clearly have no understanding of master numbers and sacred geometry! Which is a must for anyone involved in this. And he lies. 3 different problems that all make a gigantic problem, and causes any truth he might have in his statement to be lost forever.

reply to post by kallisti36


Here is some more info. The Illuminati disbanded over 200 years ago. They no longer exist. Any group claiming that name is not the original and nobody of significance has claimed that name. William Morgan may have been killed by some men who happened to be masons. He also may have disappeared and changed his name in order to sell a but load of books. His publisher had the most to gain by the good captain's disappearance. The claims of ritualistic abuse are made by the church who had a very obvious agenda against freemasonry, since it was an ambiguous claim nothing can be proven or dis proven. No names were given and no references to location. Plus, we don't do crap like that. But on that you will have to take my word or join.

Bill Schnoebelen has made his fantasitc claims in such a way that we as masons can't come right out and prove him a liar, unless of course I can get verification that he wasn't ever raised to the 3rd degree. If that is the case, then close to half of his whole empire is a lie and we can all speculate on the other half. Until then, we can assume he is at least a little factual. The Memphis Mizeram rites that he took are a clandestine lodge and not recognized by UGLE masonry. If he did recieve those degrees, which is entirely possible, then he would have severed his ties to regular masonry and that might explain his bitterness. Being told he can't come back and all.


Do tell, why you would be defending an admitted vampire, warlock, Hard Core Satanist, Catholic Priest, Mormon, Freemason who may have willingly killed and ate people?

Originally posted by network dude
Do tell, why you would be defending an admitted vampire, warlock, Hard Core Satanist, Catholic Priest, Mormon, Freemason who may have willingly killed and ate people?

Well, he's "born again" now, so all that's forgiven. Right? I mean, he could have slaughtered a hundred children and then turned around and said "Jesus, forgive me for my sins", and all would be puppies and rainbows, right?

reply to post by JoshNorton


I was thinking about that in the shower this morning. Weird place for a minor epiphany, but whatever. For him to be at the top of Satanism, and the top of Vampirism, and the top of (black masonry where they sacrifice kids) he would have had to take part in multitudes of murders. I think that Mr. Schnoebelen should be investigated by the police for all these terrible crimes he has admittedly taken part of. Jesus will forgive, but the law won't. It would be funny to see him franticly scrambling for proof that he had nothing to do with those groups. Or trying to explain that he made all that up to sell some books.

Originally posted by network dude
I was thinking about that in the shower this morning. Weird place for a minor epiphany, but whatever.

A minor epiphany in the shower... is that what the kids are calling it now days? I feel sorry for Mrs. Network Dude.

(then again, Archimedes did shout "Eureka!!!" (translated as "I found it!!!") when he was in the bathtub... so even the ancient Greeks could have benefited from little blue pills...)

But you're right, if:

1. the groups he claims membership in are as nefarious as he espouses, and
   
2. his role in their ranks was as great as he claims, then
   
3. he should face legal charges for his crimes against humanity.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by network dude
I was thinking about that in the shower this morning. Weird place for a minor epiphany, but whatever.

A minor epiphany in the shower... is that what the kids are calling it now days? I feel sorry for Mrs. Network Dude.

sometimes I wonder why I keep giving you people all this ammo.

nice one.

Originally posted by network dude
sometimes I wonder why I keep giving you people all this ammo.

nice one.

Thank you. My handlers tell me I'll be here all week. Tip your moderators, and try the veal!

reply to post by kallisti36


return to table of contents

Chronology of William Schnoebelen

09/22/68 1st Degree (Gardnerian Tradition) Witch

05/01/70 2nd Degree

05/15/71 Bachelor’ Degree, Loras College (Roman Catholic), Dubuque, Iowa.

12/02/72 Spiritualist Minister, ADL

02/02/73 1st Degree (Alexandrian Tradition) Witch

03/21/73 1st Degree- "Member" (Druidic Rite) Witch

06/22/73 2nd Degree- "Priesthood of Melchizedek" (Druidic)

07/22/73 3rd Degree- "High Priesthood of Melchizedek" (Druidic)

07/29/73 Sealed "For Time and Eternity"- (Druidic marriage ceremony or "handfasting")

09/22/73 2nd and 3rd Degrees- "High Priest and Magus"-

05/01/74 "Wizard"- (Druidic Rite)

05/31/74 Legally Married

12/22/74 4th Degree- "Practicus" (Alexandrian)

04/30/75 1st Degree- "Member" (Church of Satan)

12/14/75 Ordained to Catholic Diaconate, American National Catholic Church (Old Catholic Rite)

01/15/76 Ordained to Catholic Priesthood, American National Catholic Church

02/02/76 5th Degree- "Adeptus Minor" (Alexandrian)

05/20/76 1st Degree- "Entered Apprentice" (Masonry)

09/20/76 2nd Degree- "Fellowcraft" (Masonry)

11/24/76 3rd Degree- "Master Mason" (Masonry)

03/26/77 4th-7th- Degrees — "Royal Arch" (York Rite Masonry)

03/26/77 8th Degree- "Super Excellent Master (York Rite Masonry)

04/02/77 9-10th Degree- "Knight Order of Temple" (York Rite Masonry)

04/30/77 2nd Degree- "Warlock" (Church of Satan- same as 6th Degree Alexandrian- "Adeptus Major"

07/23/77 7th Degree Gnostic Bishop (Grand Master of the Temple Oto)

09/15/77 90th Degree (Memphis Mizraim)

10/31/78 "Priest" (Church of Satan)

06/01/79 First Degree- "Lava Tete" (Voodoo)

10/31/79 Fourth Degree- "Pontiff Cardinal" (Church of Satan-Italian Jurisdiction)

12/15/79 2nd Degree- "Houngan" (Voodoo)

08/08/80 Mormon Baptism

09/20/80 Shrine- "Noble" (Masonry)

10/31/80 5th Degree- "Pontiff Hierophant" (Church of Satan —same as 8th Degree Alexandrian)

10/31/80 14th Degree- "Lodge of Perfection" (Scottish Rite Masonry)

11/01/80 16th Degree- "Prince of Jerusalem" (Scottish Rite Masonry)

11/01/80 18th Degree- "Rose Croix of Herdon" (Scottish Rite Masonry)

11/08/80 32nd Degree- "Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret" (Scottish Rite Masonry

12/19/80 Masters of Theology, St. Francis School of Pastoral Ministry (Roman Catholic), Milwaukee

12/22/80 33rd Degree- "Grand Sovereign Inspector General" (European or Continental Masonry)

01/01/81 34th Degree- "Paladin" (Palladium Masonry)

05/17/81 Melchizedek Priesthood- "Elder" (Mormon Church)

08/31/81 Sealed and Endowed LDS Temple (Mormon)

10/15/82 Elder’s Quorum President (Mormon)

09/14/83 Institute Teacher (Mormon)

06/22/84 SAVED!!!

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www.mazeministry.com...

This is another list with exact dates that I had found a while back. I just sent Bill another message requesting the exact dates of his raising to verify with the secretary of the lodge that absorbed his original. The secretary searched for a petition of Mr. Schnoebelen with no luck. That's not a confirmation that he lied, it just does not prove that he was there. Once he looks through the minutes of the lodge for that month, there will be no doubt as to his legitimacy.

Let's look at a few of those that are most familiar to us...

Originally posted by network dude
05/20/76 1st Degree- "Entered Apprentice" (Masonry)
09/20/76 2nd Degree- "Fellowcraft" (Masonry)
11/24/76 3rd Degree- "Master Mason" (Masonry)

May 20, 1976 was a Thursday; September 20, 1976 was a Monday; November 24, 1976 was a Wednesday. Where I come from it would be highly unlikely for a lodge to perform degree work on such different nights of the week. And it would be totally unheard of to confer a Masters degree the night before Thanksgiving.

03/26/77 4th-7th- Degrees — "Royal Arch" (York Rite Masonry)
03/26/77 8th Degree- "Super Excellent Master (York Rite Masonry)
04/02/77 9-10th Degree- "Knight Order of Temple" (York Rite Masonry)

Both of these dates are Saturdays, one week apart. That is at least credible.

09/20/80 Shrine- "Noble" (Masonry)

Also a Saturday. No problems here.

10/31/80 14th Degree- "Lodge of Perfection" (Scottish Rite Masonry)
11/01/80 16th Degree- "Prince of Jerusalem" (Scottish Rite Masonry)
11/01/80 18th Degree- "Rose Croix of Herdon" (Scottish Rite Masonry)
11/08/80 32nd Degree- "Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret" (Scottish Rite Masonry

Friday/Saturday reunion with the 32nd degree the following Saturday? Yeah, I could buy that... 14,16,18 and 32 are capitular degrees in the Scottish Rite Northern Jurisdiction. (In the Southern Jurisdiction, they'd be 14, 18, 30 and 32...)

12/22/80 33rd Degree- "Grand Sovereign Inspector General" (European or Continental Masonry)

Here's a bit that gets REAL confusing. Why would a European or Continental group confer the 33 on an American Scottish Rite Mason who'd only been a 32° for less than 6 weeks? And what European or Continental Scottish Rite groups meet so close to Christmas?

So other than possibly being given the 33° by a rogue group, and the fact that his three Blue Lodge degrees are all over the place as far as when in the week they happened, the other dates listed for regular Masonry are at least possible.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by kallisti36

 

Here is some more info. The Illuminati disbanded over 200 years ago. They no longer exist. Any group claiming that name is not the original and nobody of significance has claimed that name. William Morgan may have been killed by some men who happened to be masons. He also may have disappeared and changed his name in order to sell a but load of books. His publisher had the most to gain by the good captain's disappearance. The claims of ritualistic abuse are made by the church who had a very obvious agenda against freemasonry, since it was an ambiguous claim nothing can be proven or dis proven. No names were given and no references to location. Plus, we don't do crap like that. But on that you will have to take my word or join.

Bill Schnoebelen has made his fantasitc claims in such a way that we as masons can't come right out and prove him a liar, unless of course I can get verification that he wasn't ever raised to the 3rd degree. If that is the case, then close to half of his whole empire is a lie and we can all speculate on the other half. Until then, we can assume he is at least a little factual. The Memphis Mizeram rites that he took are a clandestine lodge and not recognized by UGLE masonry. If he did recieve those degrees, which is entirely possible, then he would have severed his ties to regular masonry and that might explain his bitterness. Being told he can't come back and all.


Do tell, why you would be defending an admitted vampire, warlock, Hard Core Satanist, Catholic Priest, Mormon, Freemason who may have willingly killed and ate people?

I'm defending him, because he is innocent until proven guilty. I do have to admit that if he really got as far in as he says he did, I'm betting he sacrificed or killed people and won't fess up to it. That's assuming he's telling the truth.

So when you say the Church brought ritual abuse charges against the Masons are you talking about the Roman Catholic Church?

So Memphis and Mitzraim are not part of your mainstream Masonry? Could that lend credibility to the story, considering you don't know what goes on in this very Egyptian oriented Rite?

Also, I don't agree with David Icke either, if he is who I'm thinking of. Isn't he the guy that goes in the other direction of Schnoebelen with his Angel/UFO theory to the theory that all of humanities gods were ETs that took advantage of us? But do you have good evidence that he is a liar?

Now this question is open to you and SHRODINGER: why does a 90 degree make no sense, if you believe there may be higher degrees than 33? At any rate he defiately became a 180 degree Mason when he left

Originally posted by kallisti36
I'm defending him, because he is innocent until proven guilty. I do have to admit that if he really got as far in as he says he did, I'm betting he sacrificed or killed people and won't fess up to it. That's assuming he's telling the truth.

Since those are the claims he is making about the groups he was part of, I can't see how he could avoid being guilty of such crimes unless..........he made all that up.

So when you say the Church brought ritual abuse charges against the Masons are you talking about the Roman Catholic Church?

The Vatican was in charge. I am not sure where to poke around to find the documents, but I have seen papers linked here that explain the stories that were fabricated and why. Masonry and the Illuminati were targeted and slandered. Much of those same rumors are spread even today by over zealous religious fanatics. Just look around.

So Memphis and Mitzraim are not part of your mainstream Masonry? Could that lend credibility to the story, considering you don't know what goes on in this very Egyptian oriented Rite?

as I said, it's very possible that he did in fact join the Memphis Mizeram Rite. They were removed form recognition because they were in effect selling degrees from what I know. But since I know nothing of what they teach, for me to say anything bad about them would be disingenuous at best.

Also, I don't agree with David Icke either, if he is who I'm thinking of. Isn't he the guy that goes in the other direction of Schnoebelen with his Angel/UFO theory to the theory that all of humanities gods were ETs that took advantage of us? But do you have good evidence that he is a liar?

Who Icke? nope and I don't have to. Anyone who would buy into his theories deserves to have every bit of his knowledge to spread around so people know what kind of mind they are dealing with. Ce' lave.

Now this question is open to you and SHRODINGER: why does a 90 degree make no sense, if you believe there may be higher degrees than 33? At any rate he defiately became a 180 degree Mason when he left

There are apparently 90 degrees in that rite. being that I know nothing about it and it's not a part of the masonry that I belong to, I can't have an informed opinion on it. When I first came to ATS, I had no idea such a thing existed and would argue against any degree higher than 33. I learned that I was wrong. it happens from time to time, then I lean something new. Cool huh.

Mr. Schnoebelen can claim anything he wants to, but people who have been involved in the groups he claims to have lead, know the truth and I suppose in the end, that's all that really matters.

reply to post by network dude


Oh man, I just remembered something he said about Ordo Templi Orientis and the Royal Secret... ummm... he probably anally raped children in ritual magick. The way he explained what that is supposed to do was so reminiscent of the Super Adventure Club episiode of South Park it was spooky. South Park could have gotten the idea from him since 'Exposing the Illuminati From Within' is a few years older than that episode, but still, The Super Adventure Club was supposed to be a parody of a parody of Scientology. Conspiracy!

reply to post by kallisti36


that was a freaky ephisode. Poor chef. It's a shame he couldn't play nice. I think we all miss him.
I know for a fact that one member here is also a member of OTO and he assures me that it's much like other occult groups. No bad stuff, just spiritual learning. I trust him to tell the truth. Much more than I would trust a guy who I know lies about other things. Did you see what things he claimed about he Catholic Church? He was an ordained priest and all, according to his site. Amazing things. He must be one special guy to be able to climb to the top of the pile in every aspect of life. But as you said, innocent until proven guilty.