Concerning Bill Schnoebelen

I'm guessing atleast 3/4 of all the people in this forum have run across Bill Schnoebelen at some point. You know, the ex-mason/illuminati/mormon/witch/satanic high priest/ voodoo high priest etc.
This guy: www.youtube.com...

Many people have gone out of their way to denounce him:
1. www.masonicinfo.com...
2. www.theworldsprophecy.com... (no possibility of telling the truth?)
3. Hell, even Mark Dice denounces him: www.markdice.com...:bill-schnoebelen-qformer-illuminati-memberq-is-a-fraud&catid=66:articles-by-m ark-dice&Itemid=89

Now, I have seen most of the Bill Schoebelen videos on the internet. There are atleast 5 you can find in their entirety. Let me tell you, they are fascinating, I'm captivated for 160 minutes while he just stands up there on stage. He presents himself very well. What stops people from believing him are the fantastic claims he makes, such as being a member of the Illuminati, being a vampire, and the supreme being of Freemasonry is Satan. Now, following C.S. Lewis logic, when someone presents a fantastic claim that person is either: crazy, lying, or telling the truth.

First off is Schnoebelen crazy? He makes claims that sound crazy, but he appears perfectly sane, he presents his claim very well, he even offers certificates and such. He is very calm and collected (hallelujahs aside) and has a number of degrees (collegiate) to his name. He doesn't appear crazy.

The next possibility is that he is lying. This is a very convincing argument whenever someone is selling something and Bill has a sizeable number of books. However, in his videos, which are very lengthy and offer full disclosure (in the link I provide, he divulges the supposed 'Royal Secret of Masonry') meaning he offers all of the secrets he divulges in his book for free. This is not behavior typical of a con-artist like this lady: www.youtube.com.../u/32/h7lCUhdOiCs The difference between the two is obvious, one provides full disclosure, the other provides snippets and you have to pay for the full message. Bill Schnoebelen has the resources necessary to pull all of the youtube videos of him divulging these secrets off the internet, which would force you to buy his books and DVDs. He hasn't; he's on the internet: www.withoneaccord.org... and I can assure you that he knows he's on youtube. Also, many of his claims have proven true: www.abovetopsecret.com... (Thread started by a mason by the way). We know he was a mason, druid, satanic priest, and a gnostic catholic priest. That only leaves the really fantastic claims (vampire, illuminati etc). Which brings us into the issue of the man's character. He comes off as a nice man who is very sincere in his Christianity; most won't argue against this. Someone who is that invested in the Bible, would not take lying lightly. You could argue that he has the Blatavsky, magpie like tendency to mix fact with fiction to sell a lie, but this would conflict with Christian morality. So either, he is a Christian or he is a liar; his zeal suggests the latter.

All of the links I've found denouncing him don't really address any falsehoods or inconsistencies (I've found him to be very consistent in his claims), but mostly go after the fantastic claims with the traditional: "You can't possibly believe this?" approach. May I remind all of you, that 90% of the things claimed on ATS would be met with the same response from the officials. Another tactic is connecting him to John Todd, who was so thoroughly discredited that even die-hard fundamentalist Christians denounced him. His records claimed him to be a compulsive liar and insane, but no one really thinks about how records can be altered and how all you have to do is label someone insane to discredit them. This is something that the government can do and has done before, such as with Christine Collins. Another tactic is to connect his information with the 'Taxil hoax'. Let me point out that you would need alot of guts to use information linked to the 'Taxil hoax' in your testemony, because it is so easily available. Everything concerning Anti-Masonry on Wikipedia will link you to the 'Taxil hoax'. Here is the end all be all proof that Taxil's info was a hoax: "On April 19, 1897 Taxil called a press conference at which he claimed he would introduce Diana Vaughan to the press. He instead announced that many of his revelations about the Freemasons were fictitious". This very well might be true, but you also have to recognize that Taxil was pointing fingers at alot of very very powerful people, among these the Roman Catholic Church, who have been known to get 'confessions' out of people (see Inquisition). People who have revealed Masonic secrets have disappeared such as William Morgan, but this isn't always the best approach to silence people, especially if people take note of the disappearance. Infact, William Morgan's disappearance after the publication of his book exposing their secrets, lead to the foundation of the Anti-Masonic party and a huge movement against the Masons who until then were relatively unquestioned. This debacle occurred in 1826, 71 years before Taxil's 'confession', so it is possible that the Masons learned their lesson about making people disappear and instead forced a 'confession' out of Taxil in exchange for his life.

If you've seen Bill Schnoebelen's video Masonry: Behind the Light. You will notice that he discusses less of the claims he did in Exposing the Illuminati From Within, and instead makes a very clear and concise argument showing that Masonry is not Christian and shows why Christians should avoid it. This shows an earnest desire to keep people from Freemasonry as opposed to trying to sell his fantastic claims. In every video, he covers all points and gets all warnings across, for free. Of course more will be expounded on in his books, but he doesn't keep anything from you as a con-artist would. He is a Christian and is morally bound to honesty. Finally, a ton of his info checks out. I believe it is a logical fallacy to denounce a claim, simply on the grounds that it is hard to believe or compromises your world view.

So, Bill Schnoebelen, believe him or don't, but don't discount him so quickly.

reply to post by kallisti36


I have conversed with Mr. Shnoebelen through e-mail. He was very cordial and even offered to send me a word document of a portion of one of his books that had the information I was looking for free of charge. I did some research and it is not finished yet. I contacted the secretary of the lodge closest to the one he claims to have been raised in. I have verified that the man who was the worshipful master is a real person and was in fact the master of that lodge during that time. I feel that verification from masonic sources is necessary to vet his masonic career. I feel that its very possible he was a mason but if he wasn't then his whole story is bunk. I know for a fact that the stuff he claims happens in masonry is false. But on that, a non mason would only be able to take my word for it. As for his exciting career as a seeker, I present this timeline which is from one of his sites.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0d1a5dd7abdc.jpg[/atsimg]

Please pay close attention to the 1975 to 1981 time frame. Quite a few conflicting issues there.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by kallisti36

 

I have conversed with Mr. Shnoebelen through e-mail. He was very cordial and even offered to send me a word document of a portion of one of his books that had the information I was looking for free of charge. I did some research and it is not finished yet. I contacted the secretary of the lodge closest to the one he claims to have been raised in. I have verified that the man who was the worshipful master is a real person and was in fact the master of that lodge during that time. I feel that verification from masonic sources is necessary to vet his masonic career. I feel that its very possible he was a mason but if he wasn't then his whole story is bunk. I know for a fact that the stuff he claims happens in masonry is false. But on that, a non mason would only be able to take my word for it. As for his exciting career as a seeker, I present this timeline which is from one of his sites.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0d1a5dd7abdc.jpg[/atsimg]

Please pay close attention to the 1975 to 1981 time frame. Quite a few conflicting issues there.

edit on 15-12-2010 by network dude because: (no reason given)

You mean when he is a Satanist and a Mormon at the same time? Not so hard to believe considering how checkered the LDS past is, it's connection to Freemasonry, and belief that its members become the god of a planet after death (sounds like a promise the serpent made to Eve).

You've probably addressed this in another thread, but what degree are you? If Schnoebelen is telling the truth then 90% of masons have no idea what he's talking about. According to him, he and select others who knew 'the secret' were put on a fast track to the top while perfectly well meaning, ignorant masons just served to feed money to the organization. You probably didn't join the Masons for power, glory, and to worship Satan and might have reconsidered had they told you that.

Despite what you and your brothers may claim, Freemasonry is a secret society. You are bound by oath to keep the secrets (even if they are benign) of the organization. Each degree reveals new information. Freemasonry may not be a satanic organization, but the degree system denotes a secret society as well as the references to 'the royal secret'. There are a couple of possibilities for this:
1. The supposed 'secret' is a load of bs and the degrees are a carrot to keep you going
2. The degrees contain clues to the 'secret' and you come to understand them once at the top, which puts you in an elite cabal of people who hold a secret of either benevolent or malevolent nature or intent
3. A bunch of stone masons with an interest in symbolism, double entendres, Biblical footnotes like Hiram Abiff, and Egypt formed an old-boys network and made it secretive and weird to make otherwise boring buisness meetings more interesting.

The problem with Freemasonry being a secret society is that it gives free reign to disinformation, misinformation, lies, and leaves any truth out in the open to be picked apart by skeptics. This means either of us could be being lied to and we would have no idea. What's nice about 'Freemasonry: Behind the Light' is that Schnoebelen shows what's wrong (especially if you're Christian or Jewish) with the rituals that your run of the mill mason performs.

Also, forgive me for saying this, but you could also be a misinformation agent. You see, this is what's wrong with secret societies, they breed an environment of skepticism and distrust in everything they touch. I would like to learn that Freemasonry isn't as wrong as others say, my great uncle was in the Scottish Rite, he was one of the first Jews they let in. But the facts of Freemasonry that I know are true make it Biblically wrong: swearing oaths, the inverted pentagram, saying Hiram Abiff was perhaps the greatest man who ever lived, etc. say alot.

Please share what you find out about Mr. Schnoebelen. See if you can talk on the phone with him. We might both learn something.

reply to post by kallisti36


no, my problem is being a roman catholic, a mason, a hard core satanist, and a vampire all at the same time. I just keep thinking conflict of interest.

I thought you were looking for a discussion so I will bow out as you have your mind made up.

reply to post by network dude


The way he explains it doesn't make it seem like a conflict of interest. I am willing to discuss. I'm sorry if I came off as though I made up my mind. I'm just saying that you can't discount Schnoebelen because his views are hard to believe. If you can offer evidence that he is a liar, go ahead. I stand against misinformation not Freemasonry (we are talking about conspiracy theories after all) and if you can show that Schnoebelen is lying, I'll support that. I would be very interested in your corespondence with the man.

reply to post by kallisti36


at this point I cannot confirm that his masonic career is fictitious. I am waiting for the secretary to contact me and my asking him to dig through another lodges records to find a mason hater might not be at the top is his list of things to do. But I will say the he was a very nice man.

But I will say that when I am told that I must be hiding the truth because I am a mason, I have to depart from the circular logic voyage. I can't win and the only way to prove anything is to have you spend the years that I have invested into that which I care about. So if you want to believe that we worship Satan Or Baal, or Lucifer, or Walt Disney, be my guest. On lodge night it will only make for a good story to bring humor to my friends. However, if you want to know specific things about masonry, ask. I won't lie, and if I can't say, I will tell you that. To believe me is completely up to you.


edit to add:

Here is a link to a thread I did when I first started to do my research.

reply to post by network dude

Agreed, the accusation was unfair, because you couldn't adequately defend yourself. That is the poisoning the well logical falacy. My apologies.
Ok, are Schnoebelen's description of oaths in Freemasonry: Beyond the Light accurate? I thought they sounded pretty credible, they weren't even obviously Satanic stuff just weird. Schnoebelen later reveals supposed Satanism hidden in the symbolism. Could you watch the video and tell me what you know to be false? Also, I have to ask, why were you able to skip nearly 30 degrees in the lodge? Is that common? Or is that a contemporary Masonic practice?

Originally posted by kallisti36
Also, I have to ask, why were you able to skip nearly 30 degrees in the lodge?

You can get the 4th to the 32nd Scottish Rite Degrees in one weekend (which is called a reunion). The candidate watches certain 'mandatory' plays and afterwards receives a passport which must be stamped when the other are eventually viewed.

reply to post by kallisti36


please don't make me sit through 10 minutes of him snowing people. For those who don't know the truth, it's very entertaining, but for someone who has been there, it's torture.
Please let me know what specific questions you have about the degrees and oaths. I would also mention that a book called Duncan's Ritual exists and can be read on the internet. As ritual work varies from area to area, that information will never get you into a lodge, but some have said, it's close.

The Scottish Rite is where a mason (3rd degree) gets his 4th through 32nd degree. It is done over a weekend, but has been done in one day. One very, very, very long day. I did that one. Between blackouts, I mean cat naps, I caught a tiny bit of information. I have since joined a degree team and go back to the reunions to confer a couple degrees to new brothers. I have picked up a bit that I missed over the years. It's not anything that will make you all powerful to become a 32nd degree. I feel that a past master has way more clout in that regard. And being part of the grand lodge is way up there. And to think that the Grandmaster only has to be a 3rd degree master mason in order to serve. Thanks for the honest questions and friendly tone.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by kallisti36
Also, I have to ask, why were you able to skip nearly 30 degrees in the lodge?

You can get the 4th to the 32nd Scottish Rite Degrees in one weekend (which is called a reunion). The candidate watches certain 'mandatory' plays and afterwards receives a passport which must be stamped when the other are eventually viewed.

But was that always the case? Most of these people claiming to be ex-Freemason/illumists were in the lodge atleast 30 years ago. You can't deny the checkered past, William Morgan, and dubious statements of Albert Pike. Perhaps Freemasonry was a front for the Illuminati, but isn't anymore because of all of the horrible press it's gotten. That's all these guys have ever claimed it to be in the first place, a well disguised front, not the source of the conspiracy (Illuminati). Infact, the poular conspiracy is that the Illuminati developed independently and infiltrated Freemasonry. I'm just speculating, but I would like to hear your thoughs on this.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by kallisti36

 

please don't make me sit through 10 minutes of him snowing people. For those who don't know the truth, it's very entertaining, but for someone who has been there, it's torture.
Please let me know what specific questions you have about the degrees and oaths. I would also mention that a book called Duncan's Ritual exists and can be read on the internet. As ritual work varies from area to area, that information will never get you into a lodge, but some have said, it's close.

The Scottish Rite is where a mason (3rd degree) gets his 4th through 32nd degree. It is done over a weekend, but has been done in one day. One very, very, very long day. I did that one. Between blackouts, I mean cat naps, I caught a tiny bit of information. I have since joined a degree team and go back to the reunions to confer a couple degrees to new brothers. I have picked up a bit that I missed over the years. It's not anything that will make you all powerful to become a 32nd degree. I feel that a past master has way more clout in that regard. And being part of the grand lodge is way up there. And to think that the Grandmaster only has to be a 3rd degree master mason in order to serve. Thanks for the honest questions and friendly tone.

Have you watched his videos all the way through? How can you know if he is lying 95% of the time if you can't watch his videos I can understand why you wouldn't want to sit through a movie that goes after your belief system. Watching 'Religulous' wasn't very fun, but after watching it I was able to show my friends how full of crap Bill Maher is (Buddha had twelve disciples pfffttt )

Originally posted by kallisti36
I'm just speculating, but I would like to hear your thoughs on this.

I realize you aren't replying to me, but I would be interested to hear what your thoughts are on what you just posted after you did some research on what the Illuminati truly was. I feel very sure that most of ATS would have been chomping at the bit to join if they had been around and knew what it was about then.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by kallisti36
I'm just speculating, but I would like to hear your thoughs on this.

I realize you aren't replying to me, but I would be interested to hear what your thoughts are on what you just posted after you did some research on what the Illuminati truly was. I feel very sure that most of ATS would have been chomping at the bit to join if they had been around and knew what it was about then.

I wouldn't say I know what the Illuminati truly is, or atleast what it may or may not be now. The illuminati most definately existed, but nobody except maybe Schnoebelen know if they do now. Do you really think most posters on ATS would have joined them given the chance? Distrust of authority and TPTB seems the norm here. I have seen "what choice do we have" appeasement threads, but most people who reply are mad at the OP.

reply to post by kallisti36


Here is a start. Keep in mind that at the time the Illuminati existed, the church had power beyond belief and they would imprison or kill anyone who questioned their teachings. A few crazed individuals tried to tell people that the earth was not the center of the universe and perhaps the church didn't know all about science. They were called witches and killed. Copernicus was one of them. many great minds were silenced during that time. The Illuminati tried to enact change in that system. They weren't exactly fragile in how they did it, and since they opposed the church they were slandered. As were masons since they fell on the side of truth rather than religious lies hell bent on control. It wasn't about anti God, just anti religion. that is the part I think ATS members would go for. that and the truth instead of being told what to think.

Originally posted by kallisti36
Have you watched his videos all the way through? How can you know if he is lying 95% of the time if you can't watch his videos

I was a conspiracy fan long before I was a mason. I have seen his videos in the past and read some of his "free" literature. His message was just as fantastic then as it is now. Not being a vampire, or a Mormon, or a satanist, I can't speak for those claims. But I was/am a catholic and a mason. Those I can say for sure he is nuts about. And when he claims he was at the top of masonry, no, as was discussed in other threads, the list of KCCH and 33rd degree masons gets published every year and his name never appeared on it. Not that being a 33rd degree makes you a high level mason, but anti-masons can't have it both ways so there is a bit of proof.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by kallisti36

 

Here is a start. Keep in mind that at the time the Illuminati existed, the church had power beyond belief and they would imprison or kill anyone who questioned their teachings. A few crazed individuals tried to tell people that the earth was not the center of the universe and perhaps the church didn't know all about science. They were called witches and killed. Copernicus was one of them. many great minds were silenced during that time. The Illuminati tried to enact change in that system. They weren't exactly fragile in how they did it, and since they opposed the church they were slandered. As were masons since they fell on the side of truth rather than religious lies hell bent on control. It wasn't about anti God, just anti religion. that is the part I think ATS members would go for. that and the truth instead of being told what to think.

Their involvement, or the involvement of that ideology lead to the French Revolution and one of the most insane police states known to man. Stalin was a methodical killer, Robbespierre was more like Pol Pot. There is more evidence that Freemasonry was involved in the French Revolution, but it was somewhat out of character for the masons at the time, which leads me to think that they were under Illuminist influence. That is a good argument why many ATS users would have joined though. Alot of iconoclasts here. I personally think that Weishaupt was a mad idealist and we've seen the works of mad idealists usually end in similar fashions.

Reading Morals and Dogma from cover to cover is also recommended, instead of taking a couple paragraphs out of context of the entire work.

The Light Bearer is a reference to a planet. Some modern Masons ( by modern I mean of this era, not Pike's) refer to this symbol as the Eastern Star... but most just know her as Venus.

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
Reading Morals and Dogma from cover to cover is also recommended, instead of taking a couple paragraphs out of context of the entire work.

The Light Bearer is a reference to a planet. Some modern Masons ( by modern I mean of this era, not Pike's) refer to this symbol as the Eastern Star... but most just know her as Venus.

edit on 15-12-2010 by W3RLIED2 because: just wanted to throw that one in there..... tip toes away.

Strangely enough, Lucifer is taken out of context in the Bible. Lucifer most likely refers to the King of Babylon, but the parallels between Satan and the King of Babylon are pretty obvious (possible past anti-christ?). Satan would probably enjoy the parallels to Promethius. The typical Christian understanding of Satan and the fallen angels actually comes from the Book of Enoch, which many of them don't believe is inspired *sigh*. Still, there is a passage that refers to Satan as "masquerading as an angel of light" in the NT so that kindof works with the Lucifer/Morning Star/Venus hypothesis.

Still, how can you get around the shape of the Eastern Star? It is an obvious inverted Pentagram. The Pentagram was common in pagan art but the modern day pentagram actually comes from Christian talismans that were supposed to ward off demons. The five points were supposed to be the five wounds of Christ and it pointed upwards to heaven. The sign was readopted by Pagans and later theistic Satanists who inverted it so that the top point pointed toward Tartarus instead of heaven and the purpose of it, in theory, would be reversed (it would invoke demons). The Eastern Star symbol is at best Pagan and at worst Satanist.

Originally posted by kallisti36
...and dubious statements of Albert Pike.

Please be specific.

Infact, the poular conspiracy is that the Illuminati developed independently and infiltrated Freemasonry.

This is partially true as the bavarian Illuminati did ifiltrate some of the European lodges. However, this was very short lived. Please read Terry Melanson's very well written history of the Illuminati for a peer reviewed and thoroughly researched viewpoint.

I too have come across this guy, watched the vids and such. Could be he's around the bend, but I would bet he is just really smart, really well read, and a gifted talker. In which case he could have "been" any number of things. I have often thought, with my knowledge of the Bible and other ancient texts and documents, I could easily become a televangelist, and a millionaire. But, that would be wrong.