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Aliens Are Here To Stay, "Get Use To It"

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posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by FlyInTheOintment
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


In the post I'm replying to you ask to be convinced as to the reasons people believe in UFOs and extraterrestrial intelligence. I'm not convinced you want to be convinced.

When someone says "I don't care whether you believe what I believe", you promptly dismiss them for taking that line. Newsflash - they just can't be bothered banging their heads against the inevitable brick wall. :bnghd:

Elsewhere (when someone tries to explain) you dismiss all attempts as unscientific, unreliable, unverifiable (etc).


I detect a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation on my c********o radar.
It seems that you will never be satisfied with any answer you are given when the subject is UFOlogy, unless mainstream academia throws down thirty years worth of peer-reviewed evidence beforehand (which we all know won't happen any time soon).

So go and find something else to talk about! As per my previous post? I just don't understand why you're still here..?? Unless it's to frustrate and detract, to dissuade the interest of unbiased observers/ lurkers who are curious about the subject of UFO sightings and so forth...

If people aren't allowed to be interested, then nobody will ever learn (or prove) anything...

You are now spamming this thread, on some sort of crusade to prove UFOlogy enthusiasts to be unintelligent, unreliable, poor judges of evidence and so on. We don't deserve to be treated in this way, particularly on a conspiracy site, where the guidelines of this particular forum state that the bulk of opinion will lean in favour of the acceptability of theories relating to UFO/ alien existence.

Ever heard the phrase 'agree to disagree'? I think it most definitely applies here. Anyone who is interested in UFOlogy should (and probably would) steer clear of your style of reasoning, at least while the field of study is at this stage in its development. It (hyper-skepticism) literally gets us nowhere.



I have stated multiple times what constitutes evidence that would be convincing and that I'm open to the evidence. You make the false assumptions that I am unwilling to be convinced and that I must simply be trolling by holding others accountable for their assertion they insist are fact. And I should simply go elsewhere so that the credulous can safely maintain their delusions in the absence of due skepticism? Please, sir, if we are to "deny ignorance" we cannot do so by dismissing and therefore ignoring those detractors of controversial topics. I simply hold claimants to proper standards of evidence. Don't confuse this with "trolling". I am here to help everyone arrive at the truth.




posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by amc621
What documents from the airforce? All those docs are not official.


For those like you...doesn't really matter what documents one shows, because you won't look at em anyway.

To make a statement like "All those docs are not official" is basically just plain ignorant and shows you never even looked

:shk:

In my opinion, the burden of proof does not lie with the believer, but with the seeker... because when stuff is laid out for you and you refuse to see it, who is the fool?

Disclosure NSA Style
www.abovetopsecret.com...

When you finish that thread, come back and tell me again how these documents are not official, that is if your not afraid to go to NSA, .gov and .mil sites to see it for yourself

Deny Ignorance, yours



Ok "Zorgon" tell me, do you believe EVERYTHING the government comes out and says? IF (big if) ANY of these docs are for real, then why not just show the objects in question??? Why just let some of these docs out??? How about coming out and showing everyone the bodies or the ships that are here?

I'll say it again, a documented UFO does not mean it's a Alien Spacecraft



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 01:17 PM
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reply to post by amc621
 


I'm not dismissing skepticism - only the hyperskepticism and thread spamming which puts people off from looking further into the topic. Yes, skepticism is required, or we'd be even more overrun with charlatans than we currently are.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by FlyInTheOintment
reply to post by amc621
 


Your insinuations of childishness do nothing but prove your own.

2nd.

Edit - AlienGenes... I commend you on your resolve and tenacity. As per a couple of supporters on the thread, there are plenty of sources which indicate a coverup, and that, I believe, is adequate to support my suggestion that we cannot profit from hyperskepticism (eg demand for full academic rigor when the evidence is literally being swept under the carpet). Good luck - I won't be back her for a while as I've other things to do. Arguing resolves little when the field is as ambiguous as UFOlogy. Any reasonable person can see the scales are weighted against us.

edit on 16-12-2010 by FlyInTheOintment because: (no reason given)


Interesting, how in the world does my insinuation of someone being childish prove me being childish???? Do you have an anwer, doubt it. By just saying "I have proof, but I'm not showing it to you" is childish.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by amc621
 


i know what illusion means, but thanks for the sarcasm, i know what that is too...

the problem is most of the time people witness these things, you weren't there... and unfortunately for you and your lack of faith in others, the people that were crapping their pants when something flew by them at miscellaneous m.p.h., well they probably didn't have time to whip out their camera and make sure to get a snapshot for you... and even those that did, well, they are all discredited by the people who weren't even there, like yourself, but you know, you can't trust anyone except you, so keep looking up to the sky and maybe one day you will accept what your eyes discern, which you also can't trust



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


Okay, I see that you are willing to be a bit flexible. However, you must appreciate my point of view - that by hammering the thread with what does appear to be an over-rigorous, hyper-skeptical viewpoint, you are in fact running the risk of dissuading people from researching further.

Surely you can agree that there is more than a shred of evidence that something relating to the UFO/ alien question is being covered up by those in the most secretive and powerful positions?

If that is the case, then surely the scales are weighted against those who would seek the truth, and therefore it would be better to factor that in to your demands for proof? We would need a miracle and a lot of manpower if we were to gain full access to the hidden records... It's going to be a long haul, getting to the truth, and it mightn't happen in our lifetimes. ((though I suspect it will))



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by FlyInTheOintment
 


sometimes i get the feeling the government misinformers are running rampant on ast to keep people from focusing on the truth. divide and conquer is what i believe thats called?



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by schitzoandro
 


Your missing my point ENTIRELY. I believe someone sees something if they said they do, but that does NOT MEAN IT"S ALIEN!!!!!!

Maybe it's a hoax
Maybe it's some terrestrial craft the public doesn't know about.
Maybe the person is on drugs

Who knows, but it's not proof that it's ALIEN!!!!



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by amc621
 


Sorry, I missed the context of 'proof but not showing it'. I can understand your comment in a better light now. I'm tapping away at light speed here and I didn't read the full exchange.

However, maybe we can all shake hands and start anew? What do you reckon to the suggestions re: cover up, need to relax the hardline approach to satisfying the empirical proof question, or to simply accept that it might take a long time to get to that stage? By being overly skeptical, a skeptic can deter people who might hold the keys to accessing that elusive proof at some future time...



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by FlyInTheOintment
Surely you can agree that there is more than a shred of evidence that something relating to the UFO/ alien question is being covered up by those in the most secretive and powerful positions?


Well, let's consider what is purported to be evidence of such a thing. Could you please provide an example of at least something that points towards a suspected cover up? Perhaps we can take a rational look at exactly what we're dealing with.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


so what you are saying.. is that your own personal accounts are untestable, correct? then why do you persist? you are so sure in the fact that no one can provide HARD evidence to your face, although your eyes wouldn't believe it if you saw it, you would only ask "did spielberg make that for you?" i mean really? why are you here if you so don't believe? yeah i get it? you want proof so bad you just can't stop, and i see you have a follower here, good luck to you both. the FACT remains the same, you wouldn't believe it if you saw it, you'd surely just look for the seam



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by aliengenes
 


I do wonder about that, but think that possibly the skeptics here are willing to consider the special circumstances that those who seek the truth are up against.

NB - Zorgon; great input dude!



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by amc621
 


it's not proof to you, that's obvious, but if you saw it and you couldn't grab your camera in time, you'd be on the other side of the ant hill right now, am i right? i'm not missing the point, i think you may have missed where tdrummer and me started arguing near the beginning of this thread... catch up!!



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


I think someone already did, but it got ignored amidst the melee...

I'll have a look-see at a few different things and get back to you (might be a while though, have a few other non-ATS things to sort out). In the meantime, there were a few links further back that you could look at.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 01:28 PM
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What we don't get is that sometimes you have to listen to what people say, you can't have access to the underground military documents which have been sealed away for eons, nor have an alien walk out of a spaceship waving to greet you as the 1994 childrens school sighting in Ruwa Zimbabwe. Some people do not have any reason to lie, and they have said that they have been abducted. I am beginning to believe them, and if it is true, what we have on our hands here was an active secret underground alien base which operated by the 4 corners area. When digging deeper into the UFO phenomena I was startled to see reports of them flying into mountains, abducting people from within their car, and making planes disappear. When you here about the reports that were close to the researchers back then it was like utter magic. If you piece all of the pieces together, it is logical they were here doing experiments, as it is not logical they were here doing the majority of what they did while flying back and forth to the moon or space.

Here are some pics of what the kids drew of the Zimbabwe sighting, all the way in Africa we have the Greys!





edit on 16-12-2010 by HRegressor because: grammar error



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by schitzoandro
you are so sure in the fact that no one can provide HARD evidence to your face, although your eyes wouldn't believe it if you saw it, you would only ask "did spielberg make that for you?"


Hard evidence doesn't rely solely on visual confirmation. We can apply scientific method to tangible ("hard") evidence. We cannot do so with personal claims.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by HRegressor
 


Precisement! Our legal system would be a shambles if we simply couldn't trust testimony.

2nd - back soon!



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 

sorry dude you're out of your league here. you've well established your opinion and it all seems overlapping and boring...move on unless you have something of value to contribute other than silly skepticismnzzzzzZZZZ .___.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by schitzoandro
 


In 1987 in south florida I saw a documented UFO. I was walking with my girlfriend at 10pm. The sky lit up like the sun just came up. Looking up we saw a round object with what looked like a tail. We got in a car and followed the path of the object for a while, Never saw anything else. The next day it was in the newspaper that many people saw this object, but NO ONE claimed to know what it was.

I still don't know what it was, but I certainly don't say it was ALIEN. I believe if a species is intelligent enough to get to our world they are going to openly communicate with us.



posted on Dec, 16 2010 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


you are looking for the beginning of a cover up? or am i again just missing the point? well if so, here's an enjoyable read all the same

www.angelfire.com...

this one is better

www.news.com.au...

but again, you can't believe them, i mean they weren't there, and they are only a dozen people who witnessed something but didn't have a camera, and besides, none of this is credible... and the reason is, you weren't there, so how could anyone else be telling the truth if they didn't get a pic for you?



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