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Why the Indians don't own where we sit.

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posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 01:13 AM
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I'm a newbie to this board but, I love hearing all aspects of peoples point of veiw. That being said, I was at a bar the other night and a man told me somthing I've never thoght about, I'm very pro indian rights and was involved in a heated debate about what happend to the indians. He said that the only reason the indians met their demise was because thay did'nt stand together and reflecting back I would have to say I agree with the man, I have blood in native americans so I don't always see eye to eye about the situation but I'm also a heinz 57 german, pollish, you name it it's in my familly but what I walked away with humbled me, the fact that the same thing is happening to america today. If we don't stand together (everybody from all "tribes" we will meet our demise) just my two cents, not any conspiracy but just somthing that I wanted to convey to people in america. Give me your input good or bad, but who am I to decide what is bad.

A man can make a million over night and he is on every page in the morning. But, it never tells who gave up the million he got. You can't get money without taking it from somebody..... Will rogers




posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 01:23 AM
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Well, the main reason the Indians don't own where we live was because of the concerted effort to take it by the white man. BUT, the man you spoke with is correct in as much as the decentralized nature of the North American aboriginal tribes did not lend itself to concerted effort againts the invaders. And once the tribes did start coming together, I'm afraid too much evil had already been done and their numbers and resources had been depleted to a position they could no longer defend themselves with.

I am part Cherokee from both sides of my family and live in the great Indian Territory of the Redman's Land - Oklahoma.



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 01:27 AM
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Cherokee as well, and have been to the nation in OK. and I appriciate you point of veiw. I come from a little place by the name of bentonville AR. home of Wall-mart and I really don't want to get started on those bastards. thanks for your time.



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 01:34 AM
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The indians don't own where we sit because the indians did not believe in the concept of land ownership. That was an imported belief by the white man. I too am part indian. Both of my great grand fathers were 100% indian.

The indians were only vaguely aware of the presence of other tribes. They did not have a global, or even continental communications network. Smoke symbols only went so far, and differed from tribe to tribe.

We the indians did not realize until it was too late that white man wanted to posses the land. We didn't try to fight back against their agression until it was almost to late. We were out gunned at that point, and without a concerted, connnected effort to eject them we had no chance.

The land doesn't belong to us, and it doesn't belong to the European invaders. It belongs to no one. We should be able to live together and share it, the way it wsa done for 1000's of years before their arrival.

P.S. 50% mohawk
50% Algonquin



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 01:40 AM
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A-men, There will come a time when a deed of land is irelevant, I don't look forward to it but thats the way it should be, also I'm not defending what happend just pointing out what some people don't consider. My youngest brother does well in school but still can't tell me who crazy horse was, go figure?



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 02:03 AM
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That's because they teach the "white man's" history.

Listen to me... I am almost white as snow if you look at me. But me dad is pure red.

What schools should teach is North American history. Growing up in Northern NY, we learned NY history as well as regional, Canadian, native American history.

I am proud of my roots, because I AM a true American.

An American is a product of the melting pot. A little Western European, a little native American, and a smattering of whatever is left.

We can't change history, but we can remember it



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 02:10 AM
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phreak

You are absolutely correct. I do not put myself up as representative of anyone but an American. I am more caucasian than Indian. The history of what happened here is heart-breaking as the the "End of the Traill" statue so justly depicts. Just as the world should never forget the atrocities of the Holocaust, we should never forget the atrocities committed t the Native Americans. Just as we should never forget the atrocities of the Crusades and the Inquisitions.

There is so much suffering that has past behind us
My fear is that it is only to continue.



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 02:29 AM
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Hey, don't get me wrong we are all americans if we live here and care about each other. I by no means think the genocide was right from any stand point. Further more the point about smoke signals is vary true they only go so far, also the poor red guys met the mayflower with open arms, hence thanksgiving and every time I sit down to eat a turkey I think about why I'm eating it. The indians and the "setlers" suposedly sit and made peace over a fine meal, from what I was taught at a young age in school. It's too bad the "settlers" wich are also in my blood didn't have such peace-full values. There's alot to be learned from what happend and I see "settlers" in the government that put forth the same threat but this time it's not to the red man but to every man, every man should help eachother as americans not a group, not a race, not a color, just plain americans.



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 02:46 AM
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Originally posted by double down
every man should help eachother as americans not a group, not a race, not a color, just plain americans.


Agreed , it is a shame that the great American "melting pot" has become fouled with so much bigotry . Our ancestors came here to escape oppression , and now it seems we all oppress each other in one way or another .

Segregation like the native Americans imposed on their tribes will be our modern day downfall IMO .

We don't own anything , it is just our duty to take care of the land while we are here .

Native Americans taught the early settlers how to make maple syrup .

Yummy , thank you !



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 02:48 AM
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Some really great insights... I am also half American Indian, but if you looked at me you would not know it. 1/2 blackfoot and half Heinz57. ha ha

Not much more to add to this as it is covered quite well. The founding of the Democracy in America was the result of the destruction and demoralization of the Indians. Basically brought on my greed, money, and who owns what.
Wow, the world has not changed much since then eh?



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 03:18 AM
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Originally posted by oddtodd
Segregation like the native Americans imposed on their tribes will be our modern day downfall IMO .


I don't believe the Indians impossed segregation on themselves. They lived in differnt territories, and developed different rituals, and lifestyles.They did not intentionaly seperate thenselves.


Originally posted by double down
...also the poor red guys met the mayflower with open arms, hence thanksgiving


We didn't see them as a threat as we didn't own the land. Indians welcomed those of other tribes when they encountered them. It was the natural thing to do. And when the indians noticed the pilgrims struggling, they did the natural thing, and shared their harvest with them.

Unfortuntley, the Europeans saw this as a weakness. Along with the Indians communal spirit with nature. They figured that we were savages, and simple people who could be conquered. They figured we were simple and could be controlled.



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 03:23 AM
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"I don't believe the Indians impossed segregation on themselves. They lived in differnt territories, and developed different rituals, and lifestyles.They did not intentionaly seperate thenselves. "


I think they may have , I will ask my Indian buddy Ted in the morning. I think the results were the same however . Just my oppinion til I find out more .

[edit on 5-7-2004 by oddtodd]



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 03:25 AM
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Sorry, Double Down, but whether they stood and fought or turned and fled, the outcome would have been exactly the same. Eventually pressure from Europe would have over come any initial defeats in America.

Certianly they may have DELAYED the settling of America by the Europeans, but they never would have stopped it. No matter how many bows and arrows you have, a determined army with muskets, canon etc would have eventually established a beach head, and then moved on in.

When the Indians eventually DID stand and fight it only hastened their demise.

Nice thought, but thats as far as it goes...

[edit on 5-7-2004 by Netchicken]



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 03:35 AM
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Its the same as happened in 50AD when Claudius' legions conquired Britannia. The British tribes didn't stand together against the Romans, resulting in the Romanisation of Britain for 500 years.
Only the Picts were able to stand against the legions, forcing them to build firstly Hadrian's wall and then the Anontine wall in order to stop the Pictish incursions into Roman occupied territory.



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 05:10 AM
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Originally posted by Pisky
Its the same as happened in 50AD when Claudius' legions conquired Britannia. The British tribes didn't stand together against the Romans, resulting in the Romanisation of Britain for 500 years.
Only the Picts were able to stand against the legions, forcing them to build firstly Hadrian's wall and then the Anontine wall in order to stop the Pictish incursions into Roman occupied territory.

And then after the fall of Rome, weren't the Saxons invited (hired) over from German lands to fight the picts?

Meaning Brits are pretty much Roman/German in heritage now? At least not exactly pure Druid lines.

When I saw on the History Channel King Arthur was either Roman or a Rome inspired legend it blew me away. We're all Roman!

But people still manage to identify with some national pride, or assumed origins I suppose. "Americans" sure seem proud of their geographic location no matter where they really came from.

And though it pains the victors of the spoils to no end, I have no problem recognizing Native Americans as such
(since being American wasn't exactly their choice) and African Americans in similar fashion for the same reason.



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 02:34 PM
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If it wasn't the Europeans that settled the New World, it would have been someone else. The Russians, the Chinese, SOMEONE would have eventually came to the Americas and done the same thing that the europeans did. You can't stop progress guys. The world is an ugly place, filled with ugly people.
You think the Japanese are the original inhabitants of Japan? Mexicans the original inhabitants of mexico?

Russia did it. so did the English, the Chinese, the Japanese too, and so did everybody else. This is the way humans spread. Right and wrong doesn't matter when it comes to this.


LL1

posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 02:46 PM
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Here's an interesting read on early germ warfare:



www.nativeweb.org...



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