Just as there are problems in determining the age of the universe (way under estimated by the present thinking), there is a problem with determining distances and motion. I agree the red shift is an indicator to provide velocity and distance, but in my opinion science is not grasping the reason for the red shift inaccuracies.

Why has not someone come up with an explanation as to why? Could it not be that the galaxies observed are actually in two different layers of space each having a motion away from each other? Because the red shift is measured from earth, the distant objects may each be receding from earth, but in actual fact one is approaching earth and the other is going away, but they both appear with a red shift due to the motions of our own universe level.

I do not understand all of the complexities of the multiple motions we are subject to in space, but how in the world does science account for earth's location and motion, the solar system's rotation and motion about its center, and our own galactic motion when trying to weed out what is a genuine red shift and what is produced by the various astronomic motions we are part of?

Furthermore, suppose space is actually made up of one disk with different orbital directions embedded within the main disk? Picture space like a record that rotates around a spindle but some bands run clockwise and some run counter clockwise with even a few tracks not moving at all. This would really throw red shift measurements off since science assumes there is no such interference of these kinds of motions acting on what they perceive to be genuine blue and red shifts.

Very interesting indeed....

Interesting stuff.

Originally posted by Thill

Originally posted by letmeDANz
Absolutely humbling.
And beautiful.

I firmly believe one human life span is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too small for us to know even a small bit about the 'universe' we live in.

Thank you for sharing

Among other things that is why I believe that one human lifespan is not all we get Just to make it clear that is my opinion and please do not flame me based on your (generally speaking) belief

I believe this to so don't worry you are not alone =)
and i do believe we will one day be able to know the vastness of the universe but just not in our human brains
because we can not comprehend that
its like trying to fit the ocean into a gallon of milk

thought it was obvious, how can anyone say how old we and other galexys are?

From a Doctor Who novel i finished last night:



The Doctor took back the mug and stood it on the tables
beside one of the laptops. ‘Ever heard of o-regions?’
Nesbitt shook his head. ‘You?’ he asked Lansing and Phillipps. Neither
of them had.
‘Pity.’ The Doctor dipped his finger tentatively into the mug, snatching
it away almost immediately. ‘An o-region is a part of space that
is so far out, so isolated from everywhere else that its light hasn’t yet
reached the rest of the universe. They’re big,’ he went on. ‘And being
isolated, they are in effect mini-universes in their own right. If you
can conceive of a mini-universe.’
...‘There is an infinite number of o-regions, each developing
Iike a mini-universe in its own way. And since you could, in theory –
though I wouldn’t recommend that you try – work out every possible
collision point and potential change in our own universe to date, that
means that there’s only a finite number of possible histories. Huge,
but finite.’
‘And what does that mean?’ Nesbitt said.
‘It means that every possible version of history that you can imagine
will occur.’ The Doctor grinned. ‘In fact, given the rather strange way
that maths with infinity works, it means that every possible version of
history will actually occur an infinite number of times.’
‘Er,’ Nesbitt hesitated, ‘is this strictly relevant?’
The Doctor shook his head. He was still smiling, but his smile faded
as he spoke. ‘Not strictly, no. But I’m trying to gain your confidence
and respect, remember. Trying to convince you that I know what I’m
talking about and that you should act. It’s not strictly relevant, more
sort of tangential. And fascinating. And frightening too, don’t you
think? Consider how fragile and thin our own reality must be.’

Doctor Who BBC860 - Time Zero
Justin Richards
2002



maybe the Kosmos is a lot bigger than we "think"={beleive}
maybe a lot different too.
long time lurker: signed up cause of the synchronicity. the above was the first thing i thought
might also explain the evidence of other universes

HNY 2011

REPLY TO: DerepentLEstranger

You write after quoting Dr. Who:
-Maybe the Kosmos is a lot bigger than we "think"={beleive}
-Maybe a lot different too.
-Long time lurker: signed up cause of the synchronicity. the above was the first thing i thought
might also explain the evidence of other universes
-HNY 2011


Both you and Dr. Who have a view of the universe which is more life-like than current thinking. Did you know there is a book which describes the actual universe design and mechanisms? In it, it describes space as surrounding a central core with space itself as a three dimensional disk extending out perpendicular to the gravity body in the center of the core.

This space disk rotates around the gravity body (i.e. space motions around the core) in a counter-clockwise direction. However, like Dr. Who tried to explain, once out of the space that we reckon the use of time within it, there are other space zones that run in a clockwise direction.

Galaxies in our own space zone (counterclockwise motion around the core) when viewed from the clockwise zones, appear to be going many times faster than they are moving. Therefore, such observers can not properly measure red or blue shifts. Somehow equations must be created to account for these [presently] unknown motions of space around a central gravity body of space.

But even more fascinating is the revealed fact that the space disk has a different kind of space above it and below it. Our space is called pervaded space - it contains matter and life. The space which is above and below the pervaded space disk is unpervaded space - dead zones which have no matter and no life. The book explains they believe unpervaded space serves the purpose of encapsulating the universe to act as a buffer and prevent unwanted space expansion. As living beings, you and I will never be able to experience unpervaded space as life support systems exist only in pervaded space.

So Dr. Who is reaching for a time when it becomes obvious that space itself is a moving and plastic organism with motions of space undreamed of as yet by our somewhat primitive sciences.

Thank you for your post and a HNY 2011 to you and all reading.

January 02, 2011
REPLY TO: DerepentLEstranger

DLE, breathing heavily, wrote:
“being a incurable bibliophile you’ve triggered a Pavlovian reflex
“[drools] "book what book?"

Only the best kept secret for half a century and more. It has been maligned and misunderstood to the point it is criticized even before it is read. Give it a chance: read it! Let me quote from the Paper on space in the Urantia Book to give you a taste of how it is written:

“Space is, from the human viewpoint, nothing—negative; it exists only as related to something positive and nonspatial. Space is, however, real. It contains and conditions motion. It even moves. Space motions may be roughly classified as follows:

[1]Primary motion—space respiration, the motion of space itself.
[2]Secondary motion—the alternate directional swings of the successive space levels.
[3]Relative motions—relative in the sense that they are not evaluated with Paradise [the central core] as a base point.
[4]Primary and secondary motions are absolute, motion in relation to unmoving Paradise [central core].
[5]Compensatory or correlating movement designed to co-ordinate all other motions.

“The present relationship of your sun and its associated planets, while disclosing many relative and absolute motions in space, tends to convey the impression to astronomic observers that you are comparatively stationary in space, and that the surrounding starry clusters and streams are engaged in outward flight at ever-increasing velocities as your calculations proceed outward in space. But such is not the case. You fail to recognize the present outward and uniform expansion of the physical creations of all pervaded space. Your own local creation (Nebadon) participates in this movement of universal outward expansion. The entire seven superuniverses participate in the two-billion-year cycles of space respiration along with the outer regions of the master universe.”
[Paper 12 Section 4 of the Urantia Book]

It speaks for itself, so I will let it do that for you.

Thanks for your response.

Originally posted by Aronolac
January 02, 2011
REPLY TO: DerepentLEstranger

DLE, breathing heavily, wrote:
“being a incurable bibliophile you’ve triggered a Pavlovian reflex
“[drools] "book what book?"

Only the best kept secret for half a century and more. It has been maligned and misunderstood to the point it is criticized even before it is read. Give it a chance: read it! Let me quote from the Paper on space in the Urantia Book to give you a taste of how it is written:

“Space is, from the human viewpoint, nothing—negative; it exists only as related to something positive and nonspatial. Space is, however, real. It contains and conditions motion. It even moves. Space motions may be roughly classified as follows:

[1]Primary motion—space respiration, the motion of space itself.
[2]Secondary motion—the alternate directional swings of the successive space levels.
[3]Relative motions—relative in the sense that they are not evaluated with Paradise [the central core] as a base point.
[4]Primary and secondary motions are absolute, motion in relation to unmoving Paradise [central core].
[5]Compensatory or correlating movement designed to co-ordinate all other motions.

“The present relationship of your sun and its associated planets, while disclosing many relative and absolute motions in space, tends to convey the impression to astronomic observers that you are comparatively stationary in space, and that the surrounding starry clusters and streams are engaged in outward flight at ever-increasing velocities as your calculations proceed outward in space. But such is not the case. You fail to recognize the present outward and uniform expansion of the physical creations of all pervaded space. Your own local creation (Nebadon) participates in this movement of universal outward expansion. The entire seven superuniverses participate in the two-billion-year cycles of space respiration along with the outer regions of the master universe.”
[Paper 12 Section 4 of the Urantia Book]

It speaks for itself, so I will let it do that for you.

Thanks for your response.

I'll go out on a limb again and add the Universe doesn't move... It assembles. Use your flat screen for example and boost it up to... Let's go with 432,000hz. What you experience as mass is intervals of spun density/ discharge.