What does a 33 degree freemason know?, page 3

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reply posted on 15-12-2010 @ 01:35 PM by yeahright

reply to post by W3RLIED2

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Some of it is ignorance (don't get me wrong - we're all ignorant about some things), some of it is willful poking just to be irritating, some of it is honest inquiry. I think the best thing any Mason could do is answer honestly and civilly (which is almost always the case) and let the reader decide. Over the years, I've seen some people come in to bash and end up joining, so you never know what can happen.

Of course, you have a contingent who will not believe Masonry is anything other than an institution hellbent on evil and domination, but you can't worry about what you can't change.

I think there's most definitely some evil out there. I think some Masons may be evil, and in fact, given the membership requirements (lax) and population diversity, I can almost guarantee it. What I don't believe is Masons as a group or Masonry in general is evil, or satanic, or out to control anything. It's a boogeyman bedtime story for those with vivid imaginations and a need to find a reason for why things are the way they are.

You want to find a conspiratorial group up to no good, you don't have to much further than the strongarm extortion tactics of the Better Business Bureau.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

edit on 12/15/2010 by yeahright because: Typo

reply posted on 15-12-2010 @ 01:41 PM by digitalf

just interested - what qualities are expected of a freemason ?
is financial wealth more essential than say, wisdom ?

[edit] in the context of the topic ofc, so when evaluating what a freemason knows, how much would be brought by an individual as experience compared to shared.

edit on 15-12-2010 by digitalf because: edit

reply posted on 15-12-2010 @ 01:49 PM by yeahright

reply to post by digitalf

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I've sure never heard of there being any requirement to have a particular financial level. To be a Mason, you have to want to be, be of good moral character, be over 18, and believe in a supreme being. What you get out of it is what you put into it. As I understand it, it's designed to make you a better person, morally and spiritually. I think there may be some people who join thinking they'll be able to network their way into financial or professional gain, but from my observation they don't last long.

I've known some guys who joined because their boss was a Mason or somesuch, and they got bored and bailed out within a year. Someone who goes into it for the "wrong" reasons is most likely to be sorely disappointed.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

reply posted on 15-12-2010 @ 02:03 PM by W3RLIED2

reply to post by yeahright

Or even your local Union hall.

I would say the secret society that actually scares me a bit, well two of them: CFR
and The Bilderberg Group

Any way, people will be people. In the end I know who I am. Sure as hell isn't a Satanist. You'd think after the 1 millionth time they could find some different ammunition to throw our way

reply posted on 15-12-2010 @ 02:14 PM by W3RLIED2

reply to post by digitalf

Brotherly Love, Relief, and Truth are the core values of the Order. But for many Freemasons it goes much deeper than that. It's about becoming a better man, about journeying through life, and learning as we go along. Our time on this planet is so short in the grand scheme of the Universe. Because of our short duration in this plane of existence Masonry teaches us to live a Charitable and Benevolent life style, the better to prepare us for the next step of the journey.

To become a Mason you must believe in Supreme Being, have no felonies, and come of a tongue of good report. No one is asked to join, there are no invites.

"And no abideth Faith, Hope, and Charity, but the greatest of these is Charity" is small piece of ritual that I always remember when I go through my daily life. You may recognize it from another Book as well.

I hope that helps.

reply posted on 15-12-2010 @ 02:16 PM by network dude

reply to post by W3RLIED2

I have noticed quite a few of us just passing by the obvious trolls. There are a few old ones who always get a little attention. I have had a few recent encounters that gave me a large boost in knowledge. Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things. Everything else is just fluff. Save the good one line slams for the silly trolls and only use them on occasion then it's more like a game than a job. BTW, speaking of job, did you hear that the Reptilian supreme is giving a 2.2% raise next year? All of the internet disinformation staff should be included. Woot Woot!

OOPs, that wasn't a U2U was it.

reply posted on 15-12-2010 @ 02:19 PM by network dude

reply to post by digitalf

BTW, the financial thing, you must be able to pay the yearly dues. Mine are $65. If you are in good enough financial shape to afford that, then you should be wealthy enough. (we regard a man for his internal qualities and not the external)

reply posted on 15-12-2010 @ 02:23 PM by Yissachar1

Do they get Grandma Masons secret Gumbo recipie?

And some seriously messed up hand shakes?

reply posted on 15-12-2010 @ 02:27 PM by W3RLIED2

reply to post by network dude

Thanks for the laugh Brother.

I try not to pet sweaty things if at all possible. But sometimes stuff happens

reply posted on 15-12-2010 @ 03:05 PM by The GUT

I'm not a Masonry basher, but all the speculation on ATS has caught my interest somewhat. The following excerpt is from a book by former 33rd Jim Shaw. Reading the entire article was fascinating and had a ring of truth to me, but to be fair--following that excerpt--I've linked a to an official(?) rebuttal of his claims.

One of the Conductors then handed the "candidate" a human skull, upside down, with wine in it. "May this wine I now drink become a deadly poison to me, as the Hemlock juice drunk by Socrates, should I ever knowingly or willfully violate the same" (the oath)...

…Dressed in long, black, hooded robes, we marched in, single file, with only our faces partly showing, and took our seats…

…There was something very tomb-like about the setting…

…The one word that would describe the entire event would be "black." It was, indeed, a Black Communion - a strange Black Mass…

www.conspiracyarchive.com...

Here's a counter-claim to Jim Shaw's account. Interesting to note, however, that this article only refutes some of Shaw's claims.

edit on 15-12-2010 by The GUT because: link fix

reply posted on 15-12-2010 @ 03:31 PM by network dude

reply to post by The GUT

whatever Jim Shaw was telling about in that passage is nothing that I have ever seen or heard of. Granted I am a low level mason and all, but in the 32 of the Scottish Rite that I have seen, no degree has that involved. NO skulls, and sadly, no wine. It may have been raspberry tea.

reply posted on 15-12-2010 @ 03:38 PM by LUXUS

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
It is revealed to them who Lucifer is and why they worship him as god of this world instead of God and His Son, Jesus. To them, Lucifer, is the "light bearer", the "illuminated one" who brought mankind forbidden knowledge.

Hmm...not really, firstly Christians have been brainwashed that there is such thing as a devil in reality there is not. Oh there are good spirits and evil ones that is true however Lucifer was a good guy!

Yep I said guy, not spirit and not even angel, he was flesh and blood! And this is the part your really not going to like, you carry some of his DNA in your blood

reply posted on 15-12-2010 @ 03:49 PM by The GUT

Originally posted by LUXUS

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
It is revealed to them who Lucifer is and why they worship him as god of this world instead of God and His Son, Jesus. To them, Lucifer, is the "light bearer", the "illuminated one" who brought mankind forbidden knowledge.

Yep I said guy, not spirit and not even angel, he was flesh and blood! And this is the part your really not going to like, you carry some of his DNA in your blood

Do tell!

reply posted on 15-12-2010 @ 03:55 PM by digitalf

thanks for the responses yeahright, W3RLIED2 & network dude
i guess my question was a little off topic so appreciate the responses.
like you infer, a little kindness goes a long way and charity can be a rewarding aspect of our humanity.

reply posted on 15-12-2010 @ 05:17 PM by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by The GUT
I'm not a Masonry basher, but all the speculation on ATS has caught my interest somewhat. The following excerpt is from a book by former 33rd Jim Shaw.

The list of 33rds is published every year and is available for review. Jim Shaw was never nominated for this honor.

reply posted on 15-12-2010 @ 05:19 PM by JoshNorton

Originally posted by The GUT

One of the Conductors then handed the "candidate" a human skull, upside down, with wine in it. "May this wine I now drink become a deadly poison to me, as the Hemlock juice drunk by Socrates, should I ever knowingly or willfully violate the same" (the oath)...

This, as de Hoyos notes, is Cerneau ritual, and not something Shaw would have ever experienced in the 1960's in the Scottish Rite Southern Jurisdiction. (and, as de Hoyos also points out, Shaw never actually received the 33°...)

…Dressed in long, black, hooded robes, we marched in, single file, with only our faces partly showing, and took our seats…

…There was something very tomb-like about the setting…

…The one word that would describe the entire event would be "black." It was, indeed, a Black Communion - a strange Black Mass…

All this bit was from Shaw's description of Maundy Thursday, the last day of Lent, the night of the Last Supper. It is a solemn ceremony. Shaw left out that the candles are relit after they're extinguished, thus giving hope to the future. It's also the day that we read the names of all the Scottish Rite members who have died in the last year... it's a feast of remembrance and renewal, hence all the black.

edit on 2010.12.15 by JoshNorton because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 15-12-2010 @ 05:50 PM by The GUT

reply to post by JoshNorton

Thanks Josh & Augustus. I hope it was apparent that I don't take things at face value. I always look for dissenting opinions on any debatable issue.

It does seem, however, that the 'light-bearer' and the 'mystery schools' have an importance to Masonry. Is that true and if so could you elaborate a little or point me towards the Mason's perspective?

And: Was Jim Shaw, in your opinion, lying or was the issue just not clear in that article?

Peace.

reply posted on 15-12-2010 @ 06:07 PM by network dude

reply to post by The GUT

I think your rebuttal article spelled it out very well. While not slamming Rev. Shaw, his very obvious lies were pointed out. I wanted to add that if in some degree of masonry that I have not been privy to yet, there is drinking wine from a skull, it is very possible that there is a symbolic reason for such a thing. Almost like if I took a complete stranger and told him we were going to this ritualistic ceremony where we symbolically eat the flesh and drink the blood of a man who is worshiped as a God. Without telling you we were going to Catholic mass, you might think I was a nut job. I have understood the reasoning behind our rituals and nothing has been evil in the slightest. Thought provoking indeed, but evil, no.

reply posted on 15-12-2010 @ 06:28 PM by JoshNorton

Start not — nor deem my spirit ﬂed
In me behold the only skull,
From which unlike a living head,
Whatever ﬂows is never dull.

I lived, I loved, I quaffed like thee
I died; let earth my bones resign
Fill up — thou canst not injure me;
The worm has fouler lips than thine.

Better to hold the sparkling grape,
Than nurse the earthworm’s slimy brood
And circle in the goblet’s shape
The drink of Gods, than reptile’s food.

Where once my wit, perchance, hath shone,
In aid of others let me shine;
And when, alas! our brains are gone,
What nobler substitute than wine?

Lord Byron, ~1808

edit on 2010.12.15 by JoshNorton because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 15-12-2010 @ 06:29 PM by The GUT

reply to post by network dude

Thanks for your reply. Are the "thought provoking" philosophies considered secret too because I'm curious as to what some of them they might be?

I'm asking you guys because I want your opinions rather than wading through what outsiders might say and because I "know" y'all from posts here and have enjoyed your comments on threads not related to this issue.