What does a 33 degree freemason know?

reply to post by JoshNorton
Thanks. I know you never shy away from discussion, but those aren't it. My memory may be faulty, however. When I have a little more time, I'll try to hunt it.

Out-of-context Pike quotes! That is funny, but it looks like we could discuss him in context and still never figure out what in hell he exactly is tawkin' 'bout!

network dude: Thanks. I love ya. But you are like the most occult lightweight in existence. I hope you feel the love, because it was definitely inherent in that.

reply to post by The GUT

Josh is a knowledgeable Brother on many aspects of Freemasonry.

Even Christianity has dualism all over it. Life is about balance. Moral dualism does not imply the absence of monotheistic principles. Just look at soul-body distinction or the battle over

So, Freemasonry, at least for those who pursue it's teachings to their ultimate depth, is inherently anti-Christian in thought.

I must strongly disagree, but I also disagree with what many consider modern Christianity is not what I think it was meant to be when it started out.

Rain Makes For A Healthy Garden... Sun Makes For A Healthy Garden...
Earth Makes For A Healthy Garden... BUT! A Gardner Makes For A Safe Garden...

33 Degrees... Of What?

At some point it's revealed that Lucifer runs the world, at least until God decides that the show is over.

Originally posted by KSigMason
Josh is a knowledgeable Brother on many aspects of Freemasonry.

Indubitably.

Even Christianity has dualism all over it. Life is about balance. Moral dualism does not imply the absence of monotheistic principles. Just look at soul-body distinction or the battle over

I think your thought got clipped, but here is where I disagree. Certainly moral dualism is construed in various ways, but here I'm talking about the form that sees God as a "checkerboard" of both good and evil itself, and as I elucidated on, the type that I personally believe leads to moral relativism.

Perfection is certainly out of the question, but my readings, and experience, tell me that we're not trying to balance that which we perceive as sin. We're to cut it out to the best of our ability not rationalize it. I'm pretty sucky at it, I wholeheartedly admit.

I must strongly disagree, but I also disagree with what many consider modern Christianity is not what I think it was meant to be when it started out.

You certainly won't be dissuaded from your own interpretation by Freemasonry that's for sure.

Originally posted by The GUT
Possibly, but, and no offense, Masonic Light already had to clarify your earlier statement and it seems the deeper one goes into the mystic elements the foggier it gets.

I was under the impression you knew that was a Levi quote as I mentioned earlier that Pike used Lucifer from quoted material in Morals and Dogma. Masonic Light reiterated my point on Pike and his dis-belief in Satan/Lucifer.

Further, I do not see how that discounts my statement in anyway, descriptions of the afterlife do not appear in the Blue Lodge degrees.

rate, it does bring to mind the question of how the Freemason can be so sure of the qualities of the Grand Architect and the mystical tradition and yet remain unclear about where it all leads.

Because it then crosses into telling an individual Mason what to believe in regards the afterlife. If you think it is a fun place where you get to eat ice cream all day and hang out with Elvis who am I to tell you otherwise?

ignificantly different from what is taught in the various mystery traditions? I admit the philosophy seems more developed than some traditions and yet definitive explanations are hard to find.

There is no definitive explanation of the afterlife because one is never given. The path each person takes is there own.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Because it then crosses into telling an individual Mason what to believe in regards the afterlife. If you think it is a fun place where you get to eat ice cream all day and hang out with Elvis who am I to tell you otherwise?

Who's talking about ice cream? But now that you mention it, it's possible that the thought of ice cream will one day haunt you like an incomplete philosophy that professes wonderful ancient "secrets" then leaves you hangin' on what it could all possibly mean.

I guess leaving it up to the individual aspirant is a good thing, but leading one to occult concepts and then backing silently away might not be a good idea. Any honest adept will tell you that there are dangers involved in that path that aren't of the garden variety sort so to speak

Could happen to me, too, the ice cream thing I mean, I'm jus' sayin'...

Originally posted by The GUT
network dude: Thanks. I love ya. But you are like the most occult lightweight in existence.

I hope you feel the love, because it was definitely inherent in that.

I know. It's the lack of beer. Hell, I don't even know I am supposed to forget Christ and start worshiping Lucifer and Balphomet yet.

I sure am glad these nice Christians are here to set me straight.

Originally posted by The GUT
I think your thought got clipped, but here is where I disagree. Certainly moral dualism is construed in various ways, but here I'm talking about the form that sees God as a "checkerboard" of both good and evil itself, and as I elucidated on, the type that I personally believe leads to moral relativism.

I still think the checkerboard analogy is being over-thought. Man sees good and evil in the world, but that doesn't inherently mean that God IS both good and evil. I don't see God as a checkerboard, and though whatever evil I encounter may be God's Will, who am I as a mere mortal to question his Infinite Wisdom?

Are you talking about moral relativism of man? Or moral relativism of God? I would say God's plan, being inscrutable by man, shouldn't be judged as good OR evil. It is that it is, and that's really the most we can say on the matter.

Originally posted by network dude
I sure am glad these nice Christians are here to set me straight.

Aww, heck, man, it's an honor, a literal honor. Don't mention it.

Originally posted by The GUT
Who's talking about ice cream? But now that you mention it, it's possible that the thought of ice cream will one day haunt you like an incomplete philosophy that professes wonderful ancient "secrets" then leaves you hangin' on what it could all possibly mean.

That was why I included Elvis.

I guess leaving it up to the individual aspirant is a good thing, but leading one to occult concepts and then backing silently away might not be a good idea. Any honest adept will tell you that there are dangers involved in that path that aren't of the garden variety sort so to speak.

I think it is more dangerous not to explore ones beliefs and rely on others to give direction.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
Are you talking about moral relativism of man? Or moral relativism of God? I would say God's plan, being inscrutable by man, shouldn't be judged as good OR evil. It is that it is, and that's really the most we can say on the matter.

I'm talking about moral relativism as the earthly concept of some men. I don't believe God is a moral relativist. And that's why a rebellion against the divine makes sense to me.

Not Evil as a "scapegoat," I'm just a sincere as you are that I'm personally responsible for my conduct in this world, but, rather, that God can't be a moral relativist, or evil becomes a non-issue. Like moral relativism seems to see it.

Barring said rebellion, then your answer is philosophically kick-butt. However, I do think either the checkerboard says what it means as it were, or it's a poor representation of the "truth" it supposes and as such calls the worth of the other symbology into question.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
I think it is more dangerous not to explore ones beliefs and rely on others to give direction.

I certainly question all information. The Holy Bible actually encourages that--of especial note the Bereans. But point taken.

Originally posted by The GUT
I certainly question all information. The Holy Bible actually encourages that--of especial note the Bereans. But point taken.

I like you Gut, you have your head on straight.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by seeknoevil
Our beliefs are vastly contrary to one another it seems and I have no wish to 'degrade' or insult members here.

This has nothing to do with our beliefs. You claimed something was in the Bible, I asked you where it was. I am still awaiting your answer as to where.

Originally posted by seeknoevil
In Biblical text, Lucifer the morning star, rebelled against God l and became the father of lies when he proclaimed that he could bring all souls back to the Father.

I was wrong I think, so my apologies. I read that in another text of scripture.

edit on 16-8-2012 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer

reply to post by Cassius666


They know theyre scum bags.

Aye..Apart from conspiratorial knowledge - which probably exists - the general purpose of Freemasonry is mystical.

A 33rd degree mason 'knows' but to ask what he knows would be redundant. His knowledge is inner knowledge.

reply to post by dontreally

Theres nothing mystical about them, at all. They are pirates who manipulate, thats it.

reply to post by EddieBee


Well, originally, and for the most part, Freemasonry is involved with 3 things: fraternity, mystical or symbolic rituals, and study of esoterica i.e. metaphysical subjects.

If you disagree, you only prove that a) you are a total ignoramus b) you're extremely emotional, and thus, irrational, and your opinions are the ravings of a uneducated dimwit.

You can assume things on top of this - as I do - but to deny this is to deny a fact of reality.

Indeed, there are many completely ignorant masons, some who only appreciate the category of fraternity, and I'm positive there are others who use masonry as a front for illegal activity, or perhaps, some wider political conspiracy.

If you're going to criticize, please, for the love of God, criticize INTELLIGENTLY.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by EddieBee

 

Well, originally, and for the most part, Freemasonry is involved with 3 things: fraternity, mystical or symbolic rituals, and study of esoterica i.e. metaphysical subjects.

If you disagree, you only prove that a) you are a total ignoramus b) you're extremely emotional, and thus, irrational, and your opinions are the ravings of a uneducated dimwit.

You can assume things on top of this - as I do - but to deny this is to deny a fact of reality.

Indeed, there are many completely ignorant masons, some who only appreciate the category of fraternity, and I'm positive there are others who use masonry as a front for illegal activity, or perhaps, some wider political conspiracy.

If you're going to criticize, please, for the love of God, criticize INTELLIGENTLY.

I just summed it up for you. I didnt have to tell ya they use symbols and do stupid rituals. Thats besides the point.