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Originally posted by Jamuhn
I don't think you two are understanding me. I am not agreeing with the dates of the work. If this stone work was already found to originate from that date, then there would be upheavel, and it would be the oldest work ever found. As well, I am not agreeing that Thoth was an Atlantean priest-king.
What I am interested in is discovering the true origins of Smaragdine.
Yes, that is why I am trying to find what the Smaragdine/Emerald Tablets/Hermetica is based on.
As well, I found it interesting that Plato is our only source of Atlantis and these works themselves are considered to be Neo-Platonic. Perhaps, it was Plato who was influenced by Thoth works.
Legend has it that the founder of Egyptian alchemy was the god Thoth, called Hermes-Thoth or Thrice-Great Hermes (Hermes Trismegistus) by the Greek. According to legend, he wrote what were called the forty-two Books of Knowledge, covering all fields of knowledge including alchemy. Hermes's symbol was the caduceus or serpent-staff, which became one of many of alchemy's principal symbols.
So please, I urge you to be supportive, this kind of UNFOUNDED
Actually, we DO understand you. What we've been telling you is:
1) the grammar, references, etc, in the work say it's pretty modern... after 400 AD.
2) it is an alchemical document. It's fairly modern.
3) There weren't any stone tablets.
They indicate that the document isn't actually Greek or Roman in origin (the chapter titled "The Secret Sermon on the Mountain " ought to tell you that one without any research.) Other clues like that date it as post-400 AD and in a very Christianized country, written by an alchemist who was an educated Christian.
No. Plato was influenced by Socrates. Socrates was a Greek philosopher and he was influenced by the other intellectual Greeks of his time.
Thoth was swiped by the Greeks and remade into the new divinity. The Egyptian god, however, didn't write the 42 "books of knowledge" and wasn't associated with alchemy or serpents: sobek.colorado.edu...
The "Emerald Tablets" should and could be studied as works of MEDIEVAL mysticism and practices -- and that's absolutely valid. But the writers were like a lot of ones today... they "channeled" information or made up an ancient origin for it to make it more important. A good check of history sites (god lists, etc, etc) and reading up on the culture of the times will reveal that the truth is what we've been telling you: They're medieval, and there were never any tablets of emerald.
Originally posted by Jamuhn
I know 1 & 2, but the translations are assumed to be based on something. That is why they all talk about Hermes. I already said why alchemy would have evolved from this.
And 3. You just say that because they haven't been found. If everyone had that kind of attitude nothing would ever be found.
That is presicely why I am trying to find their origins. You say it is written by an alchemist, what the alchemists name was Hermes. The whole point is its littered by the name Hermes which is associated with Thoth. Just because he may have been a mythological figure does not mean there was something prior to those translations.
That is a good point, I should see how far back I can go. But what if Greek philosophy was affected by these tablets seeing as Hermes is of the Greeks.
That doesn't say anything about Thoth. The fact is Thoth was talked about a lot in other heiroglyphics and other early Egyptian works. I'll pull up where mentions are made of Thoth's works in very old Egyptian texts in my next post.
But, I do thank you for giving me some places to look for information because I am wholly new to this concept, specifically, I will look for mentions of the work and the oldest known reference to the Emerald Tablets....
that the seventeen Greek treatises of the Corpus Hermeticum came to be treated as a distinct body of writing, though perhaps for no better reason than the accidents of textual transmission or the prejudices of Byzantine compilers; and second, that these seventeen Greek logoi are not much concerned with astrology, very little with magic and not at all with alchemy. They deal with theological, or, in some loose sense, philosophical issues: they reveal to man knowledge of the origins, nature and moral properties of divine, human and material being so that humanity can use this knowledge to save themselves. The same pious philosophy or philosophical piety-a blend of theology, cosmogony, anthropogony, ethics, soteriology and eschatology-also characterizes the Latin Asclepius, the forty Hermetic texts and fragments collected in the Anthology of Stobaeus, the three Hermetica found with the Nag Hammadi Codices, the Armenian Definitions and the Vienna fragments. Although traces of occult belief, astrology especially, is evident in many of these works, even dominant in some, their central philosophical and theological concerns do, in fact, distinguish the from what Festugiere called "popular Hermetism."
While they are difficult to date with precision, the texts of the Corpus were likely composed between the first and third centuries AD.
During the Renaissance, these texts were all believed to be of ancient Egyptian origin, and even today some believe them to date from pharaonic Egypt. However, by studying the vocabulary of the texts, the classical scholar Isaac Casaubon showed in 1614 that some of the texts (mainly those dealing with philosophy) betrayed a vocabulary too recent to be so old. Recent research, while affirming the late dating, suggests more continuity with the culture of pharaonic Egypt than had previously been thought (see Fowden, 1986).
As such Egyptian detail is absent from works of the first or second century B.C., it would be reasonable to put this earlier; and the Egyptian forms of the names of the gods imply earlier translation than that of the other works.
When Socrates died, Plato left Athens, staying first in Megara, but then going on to several other places, including perhaps Cyrene, Italy, Sicily, and even Egypt. Strabo (17.29) claims that he was shown where Plato lived when he visited Heliopolis in Egypt. Plato occasionally mentions Egypt in his works, but not in ways that reveal much of any consequence
Originally posted by Inf0rm3r
high priests of the Great White Brotherhood, priesthood that Thoth had appointed before his departure to the Halls of Amenti.
Some thirteen hundred years B.C., Egypt, the ancient Khem, was in turmoil and many delegations of priests were sent to other parts of the world. Among these were the high priests of the G.W.B
The G.W.B priests immigrated to South America where they found a flourishing race, the Mayas who remembered much of the ancient wisdom. Among these, the priests settled and remained. In the tenth century, the Mayas had thoroughly settled the Yucatan, and the tablets were placed beneath the altar of Quetzalcoatl known as the winged serpent one of the Sun God and said to be a reincarnation of thoth.
The book by Zecharia Sitchins, When Time Began, contains more information about this Thoth/Quetzalcoatl connection. After the conquest of the Mayas by the Spaniards, the cities were abandoned and the treasures of the temples forgotten.
It should be understood that the Great Pyramid of Egypt has been and still is a temple of initiation into the mysteries. Jesus, Solomon, Apollonius and others were initiated there.
Originally posted by Inf0rm3r
You look like your just after a fight but at the same time trying to shut down the thread
"He who talks does not know; he who knows does not talk"
The Fringe-theorist-world will always have ignorant people like you who just like to debate about anything they have read two lines about off a web site somewhere, half the time I wonder if they question other peoples work just because they are incapable of doing the research them selfs.
[edit on 19-7-2004 by Inf0rm3r]