Drowning in debt...

I am making this post as a follow on from my previous one here because I approached that thread from the wrong angle, and while I recieved alot of support and critisism I have heard everyone's opinions and I would like to say my post was wrong - I should'nt of said no one deserves to earn more than $250,000 a year. I should have taken a more broad approach and this is my attempt to correct what I have said..
- I found myself repeating myself alot so I have decided to once again take the time to visually discribe what I see as the problem and see if I can incorporate where I felt I was going wrong in to it...

The financial system is holding us all back. We are all drowning in the ocean struggling to stay afloat, everyone is trying to hold everyone else down to survive this happens directly or indirectly. This is not your fault - the financial system is designed so that over time a smaller minority can climb higher than the majority, money makes money - this is fact.
We are reaching a point where so many are on the bottom supporting a heavy few up the top that pyramid iteslf is begining to fail.
To those on top and doing well, we can not blame you, I should not have taken the approach in my last post but I have learned from my mistakes. Most of us on the bottom would be guilty of holding others down to stay afloat too if given the chance to get up the top - it is human nature. At some point you may have had to work hard to get where you are. So instead of talking about redistributing the wealth and swapping places all I ask is those at the top start using your voice to guide us all to land.
Start by researching where money comes from (video here), see the system for what it is, realise that not everyone can be on the top because of the systems design and when that causes people to lose their lives it is not right.
Nobody in this world deserves a mansion, farrari, or beach house when their are people dying of thirst and hunger - I never should have put a figure on it because living costs vary too - you can continue to lie to yourself that you have earned the right through hard/smart work but at the end of the day some people can not work hard or smart without funds to get started. Tell a starving kid searching through rubbish for food in Africa he just needs to keep positive and work a bit harder/smarter.. Some of you are now thinking what does Africa have to do with any America or my 1st world country - well it is exactly the same, there are people who can not afford education to get a job - this is why there are riots in the UK, there are people that can not even afford the good clothes for a job.
Nearly a billion people entered the 21st century unable to read a book or sign their names, Less than one per cent of what the world spent every year on weapons was needed to put every child into school by the year 2000 and yet it didn’t happen. This is not because they are lazy, it is because they do not stand a chance -
meanwhile, the wealth of the three most well-to-do individuals now exceeds the combined GDP of the 48 least developed countries
The people up top need to stop thinking they deserve to eat $1000 meals while someone else struggles to even find water. If you have food and shelter you are wealthy and need to start speaking up for those who dont.

Once all the people of this world have the basics to support their right to live then you can start to claim you deserve to earn more than others.

reply to post by byteshertz


the 'winners' all use unethical practices... are privy to insider information...
the dice are loaded in their favor, and not by mere accident...

those who have scaled the economic pyramid are skilled at manipulations
of people, markets, perceptions...
to wit: Geithner, Bernanke, Greenspan, Blankfein, all those complicit in the hijacking of Congress
through the TARP shakedown!

this isn't any academic exercise... the fiscal & financial terrorists (aka bankers) are run amok

My fiancee' and I are doing well.
We just purchased our first house.

However, we donate to charity, not because it's the "right thing to do". But because I think it is a moral obligation to help others not as fortunate as you.
Alot of folks, would call that 'socialist" behavior.

I think if everyone truly tried to help one another, the playing field might be evened.

But we are capitalist, and that has always translated to "survival of the fittest" to me. It sucks. It's a big dumb rat race, where the rich get richer, and the poor remain poor. Not everyone can manipulate this system.

As long as greed is the motivation, and as long as material objects remain the prize, we will not be able to evolve from our morally bankrupt practices.

The other poster stated it perfectly, if youre at the top...youve done something to get there. That something is probably not the most honest of practices.

So at the sake of sounding like a hippie......

reply to post by byteshertz


Good post

When I saw your user name and Avatar I immediately remembered the other thread you made and I was like "here we go again..."

But I was pleasantly surprised when I actually started reading what you had to say.

We(the people) are all in this together and we are all being royally screwed by TPTB.

Please try and see that the people who you mistakenly categorize as "rich" are just upper middle class people who go to work everyday just like everyone else.

Doctors, engineers, and small business owners are all being screwed just as much as mechanics, carpenters, and technicians are.

These people are an easy target because you can see them at the mall, in the park, or even your neighbors.

You should be directing your anger at the people who you don't and will probably never see on the street. The real "rich" and "elites" such as the bankers and billionaires. These are the ones that have been making our lives miserable and taking our rights away.

reply to post by Steam


Totally agree with you, and thats where I had gone wrong in the past - I did not acknowledge that the rich are getting robbed just like the poor. Denying ignorance to me means I have to admit when I was wrong and adjust my perspecitve accordingly on an ongoing basis. I have done so and will likely adjust it further after reading some replies I get here.

reply to post by byteshertz


I'm not sure what this thread is about......people living beyond their means, drowning in debt and blaming the banks or the starving in Africa......

When my husband and I were researching private schools for our children (Illinois public schools are in shambles) we read about forsyth school of st louis. We sent for a brochure and tuition schedule and when the packet arrived I read through it. The curriculum is fantastic! The school is for prek to 6th grade. Now I don't have the brochure right in front of me but some of what I remember was

Advanced Mathmatics ( math starting in prek )
science/biology/chemistry/physics
latin
immersion language classes (students must learn 2 languages by 6th grade)
computer programming
yoga
art/art history
american/european literature
and there were like 10 other things....I just can't remember them all.

My point..how are regular kids supposed to get ahead in the shambles of public education. The prek program at the private schools are so involved and the children are reading and doing basic math by the time they reach kindergarten. We couldn't afford the 14,000/yr tuition...the other private schools that we could afford were full..so we did what we could and put our daughter in public prek. The curriculum there-

12:00 check in and sit at table and color
12:30 teacher reads story to kids
1:00 wash up and eat lunch/go outside to play after eating
2:00 come in and play at centers (play house, color, sit around, do nothing--no teacher interaction)
2:30 pick up time

We pulled her out after the first week. She was so bored and uninterested in making friends with children that were at least 1 to 2 years behind her in development even though they were the same age.

She starts Kindergarten next year and I'm terrified. We have checked with the few private schools around and they are already full and have waiting list to get in. If the children are not getting the same or even close to the same education as the student in the private schools how in the world are they going to get to the top? Unless you have children you won't have a clue how things are now. It's not the same as when most of us went to school in the 60's, 70's and 80's. The schools (especially here in Illinois) are so underfunded that it is almost a waste of time.

reply to post by Neopan100


$14,000 USD for kindergarden? You sure this fee is not for senior school?

Noone forces you to borrow money. People willingingly sign up for the system of revolving debt because they think they are bettering their position in life.

You can live very, very happily debt free, you just won't keep up with the Joneses.

However, while the Joneses will have lots of toys, they're generally not paid for and the Joneses are in debt up to their eyeballs.

You will be much happer with less stuff and zero debt.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by Neopan100

 

$14,000 USD for kindergarden? You sure this fee is not for senior school?

You said it. This seems like a ridiculous amount of money. Some students don't pay that much / year for COLLEGE!

reply to post by babybunnies


You are so 100% correct....and may I also suggest, more junk equates to more clutter of which we all out grow very quickly.

Although I have debts but these are relatively small and containable while all my other friends are whining about the big banks but those pesky credit cards....they can't help themselves then they wonder why they are in so much debt.

Originally posted by babybunnies
Noone forces you to borrow money. People willingingly sign up for the system of revolving debt because they think they are bettering their position in life.

You can live very, very happily debt free, you just won't keep up with the Joneses.

However, while the Joneses will have lots of toys, they're generally not paid for and the Joneses are in debt up to their eyeballs.

You will be much happer with less stuff and zero debt.

Actually they do force you to borrow money, every dollar is created through debt because money = money + interest (see video i posted), so there is not actually enough money in the system to pay off the debt and while we dont have to personally opt to borrow the money, someone at some point is not going to have the option - and so the cycle continues, we all continue paying debt that can never be paid only moved around and created.

While I agree sometimes its better to have less because its less stress, you are forced to borrow money all the time - every time your country goes to war or borrows money that loan is made on your behalf.
inflation is basically your interest you pay for everyone on a debt we can never pay off

You bought into the system. The system promised you certain things, like security, happiness, self-respect, status, and comfort.
How much did this system deliver?
Be honest with yourself. How secure, happy, self-respecting, comfortable, and accomplished are you?
At some point, you have to realize the promise is a lie. It is not about money and debt, it is about the promise and the lie.
Recognize you have been lied to, that is the first step.
Now, how do you deal with liars?
An idiot is a person that tries to do something that has proven time and again not to work. So, stop doing it.
Prioritize. If you don't pay your house mortgage, you will lose your house, for example. Don't be afraid, visualize losing your house. See yourself through losing your house, and where you would live. Be proud of yourself for being able to face this reality and endure! Remember, at present, this is still all in your mind. But, see yourself through this potential reality, and see yourself enduring. Then, work backwards. Yes, start with what you want to lose the least!
Vehicle note? Same thing, how would you cope? Use your imagination.
Credit card debt? See, now it gets easy. Most people don't realize you can just raise your middle finger to credit card companies.

The main thing is, stop FEARING the future, because the present becomes everything you are fearing. Be a GOOD person always, and you have nothing to fear. No one can hurt you!
The system lied to us all. It is time to create a new one, which is actually an age old one that never went away. We just abandoned it.

reply to post by byteshertz


You are FORCED to borrow money from the banks? What....they put a gun to your head? Rubbish!!! Banks constantly offering me credit and the like.....

whats wrong with saying NO NO NO ! I do, why can't you and everyone else?????

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by byteshertz

 

You are FORCED to borrow money from the banks? What....they put a gun to your head? Rubbish!!! Banks constantly offering me credit and the like.....

whats wrong with saying NO NO NO ! I do, why can't you and everyone else?????

Dear sir/madam, you obviously do not understand how money is created. Please read what i am saying a couple of times, and if you doubt it go research for yourself where money comes from. I am saying when a loan is taken out - that money comes out of thin air which in turn causes inflation - inflation everyone has to pay back. That is you paying for a debt you did not request. Same with taxes to pay for wars you did not request or any fancy holidays your government reps, mandatory super annuation, mandatory insurance etc etc etc these are all things you did not request, weather the reason behind them is right or wrong - you have to pay for these debts. Until people finally stop listening to the money rubbish their grandparents passed down the family line way back and actually understand that we live in a debt based system where money = debt trying to convince you of anything else is pointless

reply to post by bluemirage5

It is a little more complicated than that.
For example, if you have the money for college, you don't have to borrow it. If you do in fact have to borrow the money, and the job isn't there upon graduation, you are free not to pay it back. Without guilt.
No one can make you feel guilty without your permission.
Simply, don't pay it back if you cannot, and don't feel guilty.
Don't try to pay back a loan until you have fed yourself and secured those items you need for your survival and well-being.

reply to post by bluemirage5


I'm positive. The catholic school prek-6 down the street from us is 4,975.00 per student per year. forsyth school is a larger school in the city. www.forsythonline.com... Most private education is 3500.00-26K/year.

I work hard to support my family and I want them to have an easy life and I don't care if its immoral but you do what you have to. If some one starves in one part and I'm able to give my family what they want then I don't have to explain it to anyone. But that's just my opinion.

I feel badly for those who do not have money, but I do what I have to for my family. I don't think I should have to explain why I deserve the money I have it and that's what matters. I'm sorry if that cruel but that's just life we are all born to different circumstance if you work hard enough you can change them.

reply to post by Xiamara


Umm... Not to be nosy or anything, but what exactly do you mean by "immoral" methods of obtaining your money???

You don't steal it now do you!??

Since that would also be harming someone else.