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should "Evolution" be considered a sign of Ignorance ?

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posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
I understand evolution well enough, I paid close attention in school...


Yet you believe it can be accurately and fully explained in a 9 minute video. Mind if I ask what school this was you paid attention in?


I also do not expect all to understand where I am coming from when I say that the majority of the planet (including non-anglophone countries) may need, as you say... some kind of 9:min video.
edit on 12/16/2010 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)


I understand completely. People want soundbites, 2.5 minutes music montages, and tickers at the bottom of the screen. I get that. That does not however mean that evolution can be dealt with in that manner. Don't you think if evolution were so easy to explain accurately and fully in a 9 minute video, there would be no need for these threads to go on for pages and pages and pages. A 9 minute script would fit in a few posts.

I guess I am just curious if you understand evolution so well and feel it can be tackled this way, where is your video?




posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


You might just as well ask if "gravity" should be considered a sign of ignorance. Laughable question, thanks for the entertainment



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 

You might just as well ask if "gravity" should be considered a sign of ignorance. Laughable question, thanks for the entertainment

Yes, there is a degree of obviously unintentional irony in a thread titled "The Ignorance of Creationists," being answered by a thread titled: "should "Evolution" be considered a sign of Ignorance ?"



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


can you explain religion and creationism in a logical way thay everyone can understand. because i was brought up roman catholic and the way i was taught religion it seems to me that the ancient astronaut and creationism camps are preaching the same thing it confuses me. maybe you can help. i want to believe in creationism but no one has been able to direct to a place that has facts; not beliefs , but facts



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by jed001
 


Here is a good site one can start at, also one could always read Genesis but before one does I would suspect they have to be asking the right questions first.

I can not explain creation to you in one fell swoop but I think some also may already have a basic understanding of this philosophy.

www.godandscience.org...



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 06:00 PM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


I love that site, it's like reading the Starcraft lore website


The part where they try to use speudo-science to explain how Adam supposedly lived 930 years is hilarious and gave me a good chuckle.

If you like this kind of humour, you'll enjoy the following video:



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ
I love that site, it's like reading the Starcraft lore website


well try to disassemble that site then
I don't think you can.

and what does a video denouncing the truth and the bible have to do with Creation anyway ?

I believe creation spans multiple theistic faiths...

yet it only prove my points about that which the Atheist (yeah they're cool) wish to attack.

Christians refer to this possession of being Satanism but that is by the book, many cultures have a different name for this same thing which I might add spans the Globe... here in America usually now we just refer to these sad souls as A-Holes.


edit on 12/23/2010 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
I can not explain creation to you in one fell swoop but I think some also may already have a basic understanding of this philosophy.


Why can't you? Why can you not sum it up and explain it fully in a 9 minute youtube video?
You ask that Atheism be solved that way for you, how about you offer up the same?



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 04:26 AM
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because I have posted a link to a site which will help those with questions...

Currently this topic is about the ignorance of the Evolutionist, and that which they profess so deep that it has become more than just a tool for education.

you may start with Wiki if one wishes to learn about Creation or one can find another topic in this section or another dealing in it.

Currently the topic is "should Evolution be considered a sign of Ignorance"

I and others wish to keep this thread on-topic

Thanks for understanding...



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 04:33 AM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


Odd seeing as how I inquired about creationism because you had mentioned it. I guess if you do not want inquiries about it, discussing it yourself should be a no no? What it appears you are saying is that evolution is sign of ignorance but you are not willing to entertain questions about any suggested alternative? Troll on. Call Hitler and atheist some more.



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 04:46 AM
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Originally posted by Sinnthia
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


Odd seeing as how I inquired about creationism because you had mentioned it. I guess if you do not want inquiries about it, discussing it yourself should be a no no? What it appears you are saying is that evolution is sign of ignorance but you are not willing to entertain questions about any suggested alternative? Troll on. Call Hitler and atheist some more.


thanks for staying on topic...

Hitler was an active Atheist by definition, he denied God through his actions.

Whats the topic again ?



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 04:54 AM
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Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
a bunch of words


Creationism is not science because in science it is the evidence and observations that determine the conclusion.
Creationism is backwards. It has pre-determined the conclusion: God did it, absolutely, period.
Any evidence that contradicts the Genesis account is discarded or ignored if not interpreted to fit the conclusion.


I liken the debate to a jigsaw puzzle that does not have its picture on the box.
Science is trying to put it together, while religious dogma is looking over his shoulder.
Dogma feels strongly that the resulting picture will be a unicorn, while Science has speculated a hypothesis based on viewing the individual pieces that the picture is of a bear.
The more Science puts it together, the more the puzzle begins to look like a bear.
Dogma begins to get more and more upset. "I don't know why you're bothering, it's obviously a unicorn!" he chortles.
Science shrugs, and continues assembling the pieces. The picture begins to look even more like a bear, until it's almost unmistakable.
Every once in a while, Science will have to correct an error and move a piece. Religion shrieks with glee at this. "See?! You put that piece in the wrong place! Your wishful thinking that it's a bear made you make a mistake! Since you're wrong, I am therefore right, and the picture is of a unicorn!"

"But what about all the other pieces I did get right? Can't you see by the rest of them it's obviously a bear?" replies Science.
"You just don't want to admit it's a unicorn! Your arrogance is getting in the way!" screams Dogma lividly.
Science just shrugs, and continues with the puzzle...



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 05:03 AM
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Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
thanks for staying on topic...


Funny how you can discuss anything you like but you get all upset if anyone responds to it. Nice thread.


Hitler was an active Atheist by definition, he denied God through his actions.


That is just a blatant lie you tell yourself to feel better about your imaginary point. If all you have to back up your stance with is lies, then enjoy it.


Whats the topic again ?


You insisting a well known Christian is an atheist just to fit an agenda as well as you insisting evolutio can and should be completely and totally explained in a 9 minute video but admit you could never possibly offer the same for what you offer as an alternative.

Basically the topic seems to be your fingers in your ears and you yelling "ICANTHEARYOUICANTHEARYOUICANTHEARYOU!!!!!!"



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 07:30 AM
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Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by Sinnthia
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


Odd seeing as how I inquired about creationism because you had mentioned it. I guess if you do not want inquiries about it, discussing it yourself should be a no no? What it appears you are saying is that evolution is sign of ignorance but you are not willing to entertain questions about any suggested alternative? Troll on. Call Hitler and atheist some more.


thanks for staying on topic...

Hitler was an active Atheist by definition, he denied God through his actions.

Whats the topic again ?


I think it's beyond laughable that you pretend as if evolution is an ideology like Christianity or Islam. It's like saying gravity is an ideology and a sign of ignorance...well, stuff falls down, and it has nothing to do with ignorance...and stuff evolves, and it's got nothing to do with ignorance.

In short, the whole idea behind this thread is complete hogwash.



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by XyZeR


Most people read the Genesis creation account without using the scientific method and, therefore, make assumptions that are not supported by the text. For example, the first rule of the scientific method is to establish the initial conditions, or the frame of reference. Genesis 1:2 clearly states that the frame of reference is "the surface of the waters" of the earth. Most people have made the mistake of assuming the frame of reference of Genesis 1 is heaven or somewhere above the earth.

Genesis- day 1

1.1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

1.2 And the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

*What does the text specifically say? The heavens (universe, solar system, sun, earth, etc.) were already created before the first "day" (Genesis 1:1, ~16 x 10 to the 9th years ago). In other verses, the Bible says that the earth is controlled by the heavens, refuting geocentrism. In Genesis 1:2, God was "hovering or brooding" over the seas of the newly formed earth (4.4-3.8 x 10 to the 9th years ago,). We know from science this is where the first unicellular life forms first appeared. The Hebrew word, rachaph, translated as "hovering or brooding" is used only twice in the Old Testament. The second reference is to an eagle caring for its young. Therefore, it seems likely that the use of the word rachaph in Genesis 1:2 may be referring to God creating the first life forms in the sea.

--------------------------

Genesis day 2

1:6 Then God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."

1:7 And God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so.

1:8 And God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

1:9 Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so.

1:10 And God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good.

*Genesis 1:6-10 describe the initiation of a stable water cycle and formation of continents through tectonic activity (~2.7 x 10 to the 9th years ago)

----------------------------------

Genesis day 3

1:11 Then God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit after their kind, with seed in them, on the earth"; and it was so.

1:12 And the earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit, with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good.

1:13 And there was evening and there was morning, a third day.

*Plant life was created on the third day (Genesis 1:11-13, ~1.0 x 10 to the 9th years ago). These verses are probably the strongest argument for the day-age interpretation. The verse says quite clearly that the earth sprouted (or brought forth) plants and fruit trees bearing fruit. The process described is clearly similar to what we see today. Fruit trees take years to bear fruit, testifying that the third day was at least several years long, and could not possibly be just 24 hours.

----------------------------------

Genesis day 4

1:14 Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years;

1:15 and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth ";and it was so.

1:16 And God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also.

1:17 And God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth,

1:18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good.

1:19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

*Next the translucent cloud layer was removed so that the sun, moon and stars shown through. Notice the unusual construction in Genesis 1:14 which states, "Then God said, 'Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years;'" "Let there be" is an unusual way to describe de novo creation (see also verse 1:3). I believe that at this point God removed the translucent cloud cover from the planet to allow the stars, moon, and Sun to be seen from the surface of the earth (the frame of reference of all Genesis 1). The text then reiterates what God had already done in Genesis 1:1 regarding the creation of the sun, moon, and stars. The time frame describes events over days, seasons, and years - obviously more than 24 hours long.

------------------------------------

Genesis day 5

1:20 Then God said, "Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens."

1:21 And God created the great sea monsters, and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good.

1:22 And God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth."

1:23 And there was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.

*Birds (~70 x 10 to the 6th years ago), whales (~50 x 10 to the 6th years ago) and sea mammals ("swarms of living creatures," where "creatures" is the Hebrew word nephesh, referring to soulish animals - those that can form relationships with humans) were created on the "fifth" day (Genesis 1:20-21), which would correspond to the end of the Cretaceous period/beginning of the Tertiary.
The fifth day describes a period of time longer than 24 hours as swarms of living creatures are multiplying in the sea.

------------------------------------------

Genesis day 6

1:24 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind"; and it was so.

1:25 And God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.

*On the sixth day God created the "beasts of the earth" (in Genesis 1:25 the Hebrew word is chayyah, which is best translated as "wild animal," usually referring to carnivorous mammals (the extinct families Miacidae and Viverravidae, appeared ~50 x 10 to the 6th years ago or current families Canidae, Felidae, Mustelidae, and Viverridae appeared ~30 x 10 to the 6th years ago ) and the cattle (the Hebrew word is behemah, from which we get the word behemoth, the artiodactyls (large grazing mammals) appeared ~15 x 10 to the 6th years ago) and the rodents (mammals that "creep on the ground"). Therefore, the wild and domesticated mammals and rodents were created on the sixth day.

Of all the "holy books" the Bible is the only book that correctly describes the order of creation as revealed through science.

Evidence for God from Science... www.godandscience.org...
edit on 12/24/2010 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 09:06 AM
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Plants before the sun, plants as first lifeforms even though we KNOW that wasn't the case, and birds popping up before reptiles...yeah, the bible is totally accurate



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ
Plants before the sun, plants as first lifeforms even though we KNOW that wasn't the case, and birds popping up before reptiles...yeah, the bible is totally accurate


obviously some may not know English well enough to wrap their brain around that one, nor may they know the text of the Holy Bible with any precision.

please quote your refute...



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 09:26 AM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 



Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by MrXYZ
Plants before the sun, plants as first lifeforms even though we KNOW that wasn't the case, and birds popping up before reptiles...yeah, the bible is totally accurate


obviously some may not know English well enough to wrap their brain around that one,


MrXYZ shows a greater grasp of the English language than most people on ATS, let alone this part of ATS. Oh, and I'm a teacher of English. Oh, and you can find the stuff in the original Hebrew as well.

^Not a one-liner.



nor may they know the text of the Holy Bible with any precision.


Says the person who has openly admitted not knowing it! It's kind of ridiculous for you to call people out on not knowing the Bible when you clearly haven't even bothered to crack a copy of the book open and study it for any period of time.

^Also not a one-liner.



please quote your refute...


I'll quote it: Genesis Chapter 1. Here is the description of the third day (KJV, because I know enough of the Bible and the English language to actually reference the translation I'm using):



1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.


That there is a description of the occurrences on the third day in the story of Creation found in Genesis 1. What follows is the account of the fourth day, I'll put the important parts in bold.


1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.


So in bold is a clear demonstration that the Sun and Moon are created on the fourth day, with plants having existed the day prior. As well, in italics, you can find that the Sun and Moon are placed around the Earth rather than the Moon going around the Earth and the Earth going around the Sun....because the book is horrible with science.

Oh, as for the translucent cloud layer crap? That crap is crap because it would go against anything we know about how light travels. If the layer is strong enough to prevent the Sun from being visible then it's going to have to be incredibly dense. If it's that dense all sorts of problems arise, specifically a phenomenon that would be akin to nuclear winter. I've actually already had a back and forth over this with Blue_Jay...soooo I'm sort of prepared for the stupidity that will ensue

^None of the above is a one-liner.
edit on 24/12/10 by madnessinmysoul because: Added the last chunk of text.



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


I admire the effort in trying to untie the colossal knot that is Cosmic Artifact. But, this person is a bible literalist. Clearly if this person believes bushes and snakes talk, demons cause disease, rainbows are a covenant and people rise from the dead.... they aren't going to understand nor accept any science which refutes the claims of the book they revere.



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 09:32 AM
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question...should "evolution" be considered a sign of ignorance ? un-guided ignorance ? Should teaching children in a scholastic environment be considered willfully be teaching a known falsehood...



This is one of those "OP's" that I want to come in and post one word. Actually it might be in keeping with the quality of the OP.

NO.

Maybe you would permit the school's to only teach your approved opinions. We could name all the schools after you, and everyone would think just like you.

What a drag.

And as for it's "Our" job to prove you're wrong, you've got to be joking right? Did a Christmas Tree fall on your head?
edit on 12/24/2010 by ladyinwaiting because: My avy shows I'm not here, but I am here. Have I died, and am posting in e-spirit?



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