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Why do Americans need guns? Rip UP the Second Amendment, problem solved.

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posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 01:01 PM
reply to post by kevinunknown
Why do some Scotsmen feel the need to wear skirts (I mean kilts)? Is it a god-given right? No. But its their choice. To wear or not to wear, that is the question. The same reasoning applies to our gun laws. To own or not, we have the choice. And we have no need to explain ourselves to you or others in this world. Its the law here and was handed down to us by our founders. If we chose to amend it, once again, its our choice.

I really don't care how you do things in the U.K. You have your own particular set of problems to deal with, as do we. Be happy. Life is to short to worry about things you can't change or don't concern you(I realize that last statement is open to a lot of criticim, so let me save some of you some time. I am concerned with world peace, the right to an education, freedom of speech, good, affordable healthcare and more).

posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 01:02 PM
reply to post by kevinunknown
LOL. Ever heard of CAIR? They effectively do just that and are not censored. They actually help pick islamic chaplains in our military.

posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 01:04 PM

Originally posted by Hopup Dave
In a nutshell: Current FBI statistics show that the violent crime rate (murder, robbery, etc) is the LOWEST in 35 years while gun ownership has increased by 4 million average per year. MORE GUNS DOES NOT INCREASE CRIME…IT DECREASES CRIME!


Rank 1st Columbia = 0.617847 per 1,000 people

Rank 4th Venezuela = 0.316138 per 1,000 people

Rank 5th Russia = 0.201534 per 1,000 people

Rank 6th Mexico = 0.130213 per 1,000 people

Rank 26th United States = 0.042802 per 1,000 people. 2nd Amendment gun rights. Trend has been toward fewer murders per capita for several years. In 2009 that trend continued even as gun ownership increased by 14,033,824 (based on NCIS background checks conducted in 2009). *That is more guns than the combined active armies of the top 21 countries in the world.
*This according to with NCIS statistics printed there.

Rank 46th United Kingdom = 0.0140633 per 1,000 people. Tight government gun control:

**Murder rates (initially stable round about 1 per 100,000 population have steadily increased since the early 1990’s. In contrast, in the US over the same period homicides have almost halved. Now while homicide rates in the US are still higher than in the UK, the important thing is to realise that in 1980 the US homicide rate was about ten times the rate in England but now the US rate is only three times higher. Clearly the liberal firearms legislation in the US has worked to reduce murders while the legislation passed in the UK appears to have had the perverse effect of increasing the homicide rate. The net effect is that the gap between the UK and US murder rates has narrowed significantly. A similar pattern (a virtual doubling of murder rates since the passage of the 1988 and 1997 firearm laws is seen from Scottish figures.
** Taken from “HOW GOVERNMENTS CREATE CRIME” by Dr. Lech Beltowski as available in pdf format at

Rank 56th Switzerland = 0.00921351 per 1,000 people. The personal weapon of militia is kept at home as part of the military obligations. Switzerland has one of the highest militia gun ownership rates in the world.

The following was taken from

“In a book titled "Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America (Social Institutions and Social Change)" Kleck's research showed that armed citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals every year as do police (1,527 to 606). Most of those instances were while the innocent victim was waiting on the police to arrive and many were even waiting for the police to answer the phone.” Emphasis added by me.

In the November 15th 1993 issue of Newsweek Magazine George Will reported that police were 5 times more likely than a civilian to shoot an innocent person by mistake.

The following is from the downloadable widget counter:

*Since January 1, 2010 until Tuesday, May 11, 2010 11:24:24 PM GUNS have already been used in the US, in SELF DEFENSE 870,204 times... Think about it.

*I cannot vouch for the validity of the above information, as I did not compile the statistics myself.

Great post Hopup Dave, and I would add that Columbia has about the same number of guns per capita as the U.K. Unfortunately, KU apparently cares little about historic or current day facts or events. He is just out to spread his well intentioned yet misguided message about hope and joy. He doesn't want to see how many genocides took place in the wake of gun control, he doesn't want to accept that if all guns were removed, murderers will find another way to kill. Carrying it further, with his unerring logic Americans would disarm themselves of all nuclear weapons while the Russians were allowed to arm themselves to high Hell and blow us all to kingdom come.

edit on 15-12-2010 by bigrex because: rephrasing

edit on 15-12-2010 by bigrex because: typo

edit on 15-12-2010 by bigrex because: typo

edit on 15-12-2010 by bigrex because: more info.

posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 01:16 PM
reply to post by glimmerman

Sounds like we may have been in some of the same places, possibly even at the same times. Unfortunately our nation is not what it was even 20 years ago. In my opinion, the time for change is here. I am just waiting for the spark.

In response to the OP:

Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons
11 November 1938
With a basis in §31 of the Weapons Law of 18 March 1938 (Reichsgesetzblatt I, p.265), Article III of the Law on the Reunification of Austria with Germany of 13 March 1938 (Reichsgesetzblatt I, p. 237), and §9 of the Führer and Chancellor's decree on the administration of the Sudeten-German districts of 1 October 1938 (Reichsgesetzblatt I, p 1331) are the following ordered:

Jews (§5 of the First Regulations of the German Citizenship Law of 14 November 1935, Reichsgesetzblatt I, p. 1333) are prohibited from acquiring, possessing, and carrying firearms and ammunition, as well as truncheons or stabbing weapons. Those now possessing weapons and ammunition are at once to turn them over to the local police authority.

Firearms and ammunition found in a Jew's possession will be forfeited to the government without compensation.

The Minister of the Interior may make exceptions to the Prohibition in §1 for Jews who are foreign nationals. He can entrust other authorities with this power.

Whoever willfully or negligently violates the provisions of §1 will be punished with imprisonment and a fine. In especially severe cases of deliberate violations, the punishment is imprisonment in a penitentiary for up to five years.

For the implementation of this regulation, the Minister of the Interior waives the necessary legal and administrative provisions.

This regulation is valid in the state of Austria and in the Sudeten-German districts.

Berlin, 11 November 1938
Minister of the Interior

The Night of the Broken Glass, the infamous Nazi rampage against Germany's Jews, took place in November 1938. It was preceded by the confiscation of firearms from the Jewish victims. All other reasons for disarming the populace are just a smokescreen. Finding out which Jews had firearms was not too difficult. The liberal Weimar Republic passed a Firearm Law in 1928 requiring extensive police records on gun owners. Hitler signed a further gun control law in early 1938. Other European countries also had laws requiring police records to be kept on persons who possessed firearms. When the Nazis took over Czechoslovakia and Poland in 1939, it was a simple matter to identify gun owners. Many of them disappeared in the middle of the night along with political opponents. In 1941, U.S. Attorney General Robert Jackson called on Congress to enact national registration of all firearms. Given events in Europe, Congress recoiled, and legislation was introduced to protect the Second Amendment. Rep. Edwin Arthur Hall explained: "Before the advent of Hitler or Stalin, who took power from the German and Russian people, measures were thrust upon the free legislatures of those countries to deprive the people of the possession and use of firearms, so that they could not resist the encroachments of such diabolical and vitriolic state police organizations as the Gestapo, the Ogpu, and the Cheka." Rep. John W. Patman added: "The people have a right to keep arms; therefore, if we should have some Executive who attempted to set himself up as dictator or king, the people can organize themselves together and, with the arms and ammunition they have, they can properly protect themselves. . . ." Thomas Jefferson proclaimed that the people had the right to overthrow an oppressive government. I ask how would that be done without weapons with which to resist?

The question asked by the OP is all wrong. The question should be: "Why don't we all have the right to keep and bear arms such as they have in the USA?"

posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 01:20 PM
reply to post by BasilFawlty

Dear God! Am I missing something here? We, the americans, did not help you in WW1! Tell me you did not make that statement! Where the hell then was my neighbor late 1917 and 1918? With the Boy Scouts? Amazing? Your trying to tell us about your History? Here I'll do you a favor,but I'm not going to give you a direct link. I'm going to make you all work for it.[] go to the table of contents. You can find your history there. God Bless America!

posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 01:21 PM
A few other colorful analogies and facts!...

"When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." This is not only fitting but TRUE, hence the comparative crime stats , provided by the FBI, on states with tough gun laws...

"Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun". Well , my personal firearms anyway...

Home invasions are at an ALL TIME HIGH, in the UK and Australia... Why??? Because the people can't protect themselves....

If they are in your house, shoot them.... If they are in your yard, shoot them and drag them in your house! AMEN!

posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 01:25 PM

Originally posted by kevinunknown
Sorry, I have been sleeping and doing other, more productive, things.

hmmmm, sleeping and other "things". sounds very productive.

Originally posted by kevinunknown
Another recurring topic is that I am a coward, can’t defend myself, a sheep, stupid, a “dumb brit” and otherwise ignorant. Why because I hold a different view on gun control

you are not ignorant because you don't carry a gun, you are ignorant because you are trying to argue an issue you only know about 3rd hand.

you never answered my question, do you or have you ever lived in the states? i'm judging no since you think you have the solution to a "problem" your ignorance can't properly argue other then your opinion of a country's law you know nothing about. reading the law on paper does nothing if you haven't either A)known somebody who has been a victim of a gun crime in america or B)have been a victim of a gun crime yourself

if you lived here and experienced the little crime prevention gun control achieves you would understand that ripping up the 2nd amendment of MY country would put more people in danger then save them. all drug dealers, gang bangers, bank robbers, other criminals of the like etc... will acquire and/or use these weapons to achieve their goal.

i KNOW FOR A FACT that had i benn able to own a gun, there's no way in hell those thug scumbags would have been able to pistol-whip my brother, take MY hard earned paycheck i had JUST cashed, and get away with a 10 generation family heirloom that has probably been sold for some meth or crack rock.

so before you decide that your pretentious opinion about an issue that does not affect your everyday life and you have no idea what you are talking about

judging by your intelligence in your arguments, the only thing i think you have proved, is that picture under your name really is you.

posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 01:33 PM
reply to post by kevinunknown

The only inadequacy I am making up for would be that of my Local, State and Federal Government... We live in a society where the pizza delivery guy gets to your house before L.E. can... But I digress, anytime, ANYTIME you want to compare "tools" you just let me know cupcake!

posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 01:40 PM
I also feel obligated to mention .... THE BORDERS! Since this administration fails to recognize and support states such as Arizona and Texas in the real of BORDER SECURITY... Since these less than desirable individuals have no regard for life and will go as far as shooting a L.E.O. in the BACK!!! Yeah, I'll will continue to take the responsibility of protecting my self and my own...

posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 01:40 PM
reply to post by kevinunknown

Hey Kevin!

As a scotchman, do you have to bow to the Queen of England if you meet her,or is it just the English? I mean, you are under the British Crown are you not? See, we don't have to bow to our leaders because they work for us. It's in the Preamble to our Constitution. "WE THE PEOPLE". God Bless America not God Bless the Queen.

posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 01:42 PM

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by zero1020

Ok, I really don’t know what a troll is.

Please give me a definition.

If hand guns had been banned, he wouldn’t have had the ability to traumatise those people or kill himself.

The actual m eaning of a Troll is found in move slowly in a boat while using a are trolling for a fish. However I am sure you realize we americans use words for our own misused meanings therefore you being called a troll in these post well hmm how to relay how to relay...ok bluntly it is a insult, such as a asshole version of a hideous elf.

posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 01:43 PM
reply to post by prexparte

remembering I never called you nor any other person such a thing

posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 01:47 PM
reply to post by kevinunknown

Guns don't kill people,,,PEOPLE kill people,,,,by the way ,,,if it weren't for guns you'd be a British subject right now,,,,,,,,

posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 01:54 PM
Just in case you anti-Second Amendment people hadn't heard the news...the Mexican Mafia goes after the wife and kids too.

Nearly three months after American David Hartley was shot and killed by a drug gang while jet-skiing with his wife on a lake straddling the Texas-Mexican border, U.S. investigators say the gunmen were "authorized" by their cartel to kill Hartley's wife, as well. David Hartley, 30, of Milliken, Colo., was shot in the back of his head on Sept. 30 by alleged Mexican drug

posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 02:04 PM
Oh, shoot....pardon the pun............while I'm HAARPING on the Mexican border.........What to do when suicide bombers start blowing themselves up in your neighborhood?? What to do?? What to do??

What?? You threw away all your guns?? Boy, are you screwed!!

Hezbollah terrorists entering US through Mexican border; Obama ignores evidence

Isn’t it almost miraculous that the US hasn’t been attacked yet when there is a clear and present danger of Islamic terrorists basically amassing just south of the US? According to Myrick and others in the know, this threat is not overseas anymore—it’s basically knocking on the back door of the US

posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 02:34 PM
reply to post by kevinunknown

Because of the cops that just shot a man for holding a garden hose nozzle. That's the reason. The people that run the government can oppress, that is the SOLE reason for the second amendment, not to hunt.


posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 02:44 PM
Wow...I can only assume this is a joke. I'm going to go ahead and say that if you don't realize that there is a small group of people who have ruined our world since before recorded history, then you're insane, or willfully ignorant. You say we're insane for believing this, but you believe that the environmentalists are going to destroy the world, these environs are a small part of the people who are ruining this planet, so you actually should realize that there is a bigger hand controlling these people. Like that first moderator pointed out, you would fit in well with all the worlds' dictators. The most important step for all these people was taking the guns away from the people, it was usually one of the first steps. You don't like free speech or guns, wow, you would fit in well with the Democrats. You don't seem to be a happy person, would taking everyone's guns away making you any happier? You don't seem to be an informed person, would taking away alternative journalism make you any happier? I usually can't stand the comments on ATS, but I must say, the amount of people who see the OP as being dangerously ignorant sure does make me happy. We may not all agree upon politics, conspiracies, or aliens; but, daggunnit, we sure do all seem to agree that the second amendment is the only thing keeping the government from completely enslaving us.

Gun quotes link

"What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty.... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins." (Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, spoken during floor debate over the Second Amendment [ I Annals of Congress at 750 [August 17, 1789]])

" disarm the people - that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380)

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States" (Noah Webster in `An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution', 1787, a pamphlet aimed at swaying Pennsylvania toward ratification, in Paul Ford, ed., Pamphlets on the Constitution of the United States, at 56(New York, 1888))

"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state government, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people" (Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788)

"The prohibition is general. No clause in the Constitution could by any rule of construction be conceived to give to Congress a power to disarm the people. Such a flagitious attempt could only be made under some general pretense by a state legislature. But if in any blind pursuit of inordinate power, either should attempt it, this amendment may be appealed to as a restraint on both." [William Rawle, A View of the Constitution 125-6 (2nd ed. 1829)

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for few public officials." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 425-426)

edit on 15-12-2010 by SincerelySarcastic because: Add link

posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 02:47 PM
The uk is going to make it against the law to protest. you lost your rights to bear arms, know you will loose your rights to protest, keep giving your rights up. Before you can say damn what was I thinking those american knew what was right, you will have lost your lives....You better man up and stop your government before it is to late

posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 02:53 PM

Originally posted by fredcall
Oh, shoot....pardon the pun............while I'm HAARPING on the Mexican border.........What to do when suicide bombers start blowing themselves up in your neighborhood?? What to do?? What to do??

What?? You threw away all your guns?? Boy, are you screwed!!

Hezbollah terrorists entering US through Mexican border; Obama ignores evidence

Isn’t it almost miraculous that the US hasn’t been attacked yet when there is a clear and present danger of Islamic terrorists basically amassing just south of the US? According to Myrick and others in the know, this threat is not overseas anymore—it’s basically knocking on the back door of the US

Here is my answer to those terrorist here in america, the very first inner country attack which hits a school, a hospital, a subway, like to uk, believe me us americans will pull out our arms walk east to west, north to south and take every last one from middlee east out. we will not lay down and take it up the ass and let it continue, and NO ONE will stop us no one. They think they will put fear into us, oh no no, they will know and realize what fear is. That action will turn a docile american into a lunitic. quaranteed. This is my right to bear arms, to protect my family my neighrbor my country and me

posted on Dec, 15 2010 @ 02:54 PM

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by projectvxn

Oh I thought you were going to go down the root of telling me that these rights were universal to all of humanity be grace of their very being, are you going to start quoting Locke at me now?. we are now into a different argument far removed from weather Americans should be allowed guns or not.

I think these rights should be suppressed, you think they should be protected.

And as the ATS “expert” on weapons I really don’t expect you to agree with me on this.

You think you're going to have a say in "Allowing" us to keep our guns??
This external arrogant elitism is just the reason we are stocking them away.

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