Why do Americans need guns? Rip UP the Second Amendment, problem solved. , page 3

reply to post by Danbones

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Yes in the Uk leaving your house with a kitchen knife (even a pen knife if its not stored properly with your fishing tackle etc) is already illegal. Even a cotch is considered a lethal weapon, as are your feet if you use them wrongly, ie on the head.

I agree with post above too, guns arent evil, they dont think so they cant have a moral tag attached to them they are inanimate. The question is about controling their use to keep them out of evil hands standard.

reply to post by kevinunknown

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we own guns because it's out right. We, being a democracy (somewhat) voted that we will keep having guns. Your country voted to outlaw them. Your people couldn't handle the responsibility that came with gun ownership. If you move to USA and become a voting citizen, then you can vote against the right to bear arms. It sounds like your country has some other issues to deal with. remember, whiskey doesn't kill people, people kill people.

reply to post by projectvxn

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If the government says you can’t say something then your rights have been restricted and as such you don’t have absolute freedom. The liberal rights that you are talking to are really quite interesting, because I basically don’t agree with them freedom of speech cant possible exist. The right to life, does that extend to the unborn child in a womb, does the right to property extend to illicit materials?

If one was to take all of these rights on face value, I could basically do as i please indeed the end goal of the liberal ideology is the creation of a state which has no government and is only governed by a social code. No to me order and control are necessity to ensure the safety of the population and the progression of society as such I don’t like the liberal notion of natural rights as they remove central control and crate an elite with in society.

If you are however argue that because America is founded on these liberal rights and I should respect that then I will agree with you. I am in no position to really lecture you about what your rights should and should not be if I don’t recognise you fundamental rights as enshrined in you society, culture and jurisprudence. I will however question them if only to stir up a debate.

reply to post by kevinunknown

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None of us are. Those rights are granted to us by our very humanity. (Rights belong to God not man, for the religious among us.)

Government, in the United States, by history and philosophy, was instituted to protect those rights. The US Constitution expressly prohibits the regulation of free speech.

Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Castro, Pot, and a whole gaggle of dictators, all experts in gun control and free speech regulation...

Refer to history to see why you're simply wrong on this issue.

reply to post by kevinunknown

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You're forgetting that ridding the upstanding citizens of their guns, you're leaving them unable to defend themselves against those who aren't so upstanding with guns. Even in Norway, where guns are outright BANNED, I can still get a Glock if I wanted. There's killings daily here with hand guns, which you're not supposed to have.

Legal guns aren't an issue, it's the illegals ones. And as you can see from my above text, even if you're not allowed to own guns, gun crime will still exist.

reply to post by kevinunknown

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What most dont understand about our right to bear arms is that its not to hunt, or even really to protect ourselves from others, back when it was written that was a given.......its to protect ourselves from exactly what is happening today....the government running wild. The only difference is back then just rifles put us on an even playing field with our wannabe masters.....today not only should guns be legal, but so should gernades, rocket launchers, whatever. Before anyone says that the world would end if people had them........they already do, but they are illegal so its just the crimanals that have them

reply to post by projectvxn

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Oh I thought you were going to go down the root of telling me that these rights were universal to all of humanity be grace of their very being, are you going to start quoting Locke at me now?. we are now into a different argument far removed from weather Americans should be allowed guns or not.

I think these rights should be suppressed, you think they should be protected.

And as the ATS “expert” on weapons I really don’t expect you to agree with me on this.

reply to post by kevinunknown

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I think you're finding it hard to find anyone who really agrees with you on this.

You can't separate these rights from each other. The right to own firearms is a modern implementation of basic Natural Law. Wolves have sharp teeth, cats have claws, humans have none of these things, but we can make weapons and we do.

And what does it matter to you if we're allowed to own guns or not? You're in Scotland, how does our ownership of guns affect you?

reply to post by kevinunknown

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In the UK I know no one who owns a gun, and no one I know has ever been disadvantaged because of this

True but you do have a knifing problem... in fact more people are hurt in the UK per year than are Americans being shot....

Lets face it gun or no guns where someone is determined to harm another nothing will stop them...

reply to post by projectvxn

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We have out fists, try a night out in Glasgow you’ll get what I am talking about.

Surly extending our ability to defend ourselves by extending our limbs with rifles is interfering with these natural rights. There are large parts of the world were civilians don’t own guns and they are not disadvantaged as a result.

reply to post by kevinunknown

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I don't seek out violence.

I don't own guns because I want to open fire on anyone who messes with me. I own and carry because I don't want to be messed with...No one messes with the guy who has a gun..

reply to post by DaddyBare

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Very true, we have a problem with knife crime, I would ban them if I could, but i really like stakes. So how about 5 years minimum if your caught with one out of its packaging and 15 years for intent and life if you kill with one.

The biggest problem we really have is alcohol, so I would raise the age you can drink to 21

reply to post by projectvxn

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It’s really sad that’s how your society works. Sounds very much like the youths in our cities who carry knifes for the same reason, and ironically they are the ones who get stabbed the most.

I would hate to take a walk in a park and know that there are people who are carrying a gun, effectively because they fear their fellow man.

reply to post by kevinunknown

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I don't fear anyone.

I'm a well trained individual..But I also know that sometimes you have to be able to escalate the amount of force you apply to a situation. I like having that option should the need arise. I don't carry out of fear. Most of the time I don't carry, but I do when I know I'm going to a bad neighborhood, or when I'm out in the middle of nowhere(which happens a lot).

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