Why do Americans need guns? Rip UP the Second Amendment, problem solved.

reply to post by kevinunknown


The Constitution was written to address the shortcomings of the Magna Carta. We choose not to burn it. But should you ever misplace the Magna Carta, we will gladly send you a copy of the Constitution as a replacement. After all, it was written by Englishmen who found the Magna Carta and the king's behavior unsatisfactory and could not act on clause 61, which excluded the common man.
The Chavs may not like our Constitution, but it may greatly benefit the good people of the UK.

Originally posted by Badgered1
Does Mr. Sahid, the Muslim in the house down the street have the "RIGHT" to cache as many weapons as Mr. Andrews, the Christian next door, or is Mr. Sahid's cache an obvious sign of him being a terrorist? Is he as welcome to bear arms against what he sees as a tyrannical government as Mr. Andrews is?

Depends on your views, and what you perceive.

The 'Patriots' of 1776 were simply terrorists in the eyes of the British. Perception....

Nobody seems to have mentioned the 4-8-12-15 year old who accidentally shot himself or his friend or his baby brother/sister with the handgun he 'found' in Granddad's closet. Where did the Columbine kids get the guns? Off the street from some felon looking for crack money? Dangerous, felonious criminals are not the only avenue toward gun ownership.

Gun ownership carries massive responsibility. Everyone on ATS talks about the sheep who believe everything they read/hear on the news, and how very stupid they are. Was Granddad one of these sheep? Or was he an NRA card carrying, patriotic member? Was he responsible as a gun owner? I argue that he wasn't. I know a lot of gun owners with safes and trigger locks will argue that it's the minority that are not responsible, but we hear that every single time some poor kid gets shot accidentally.

Guns don't kill people.....it's those pesky bullets.

murderers kill people.Saying guns kill people is like saying spoons made Rosie O'donnell fat!






partIIof

partIII

reply to post by 46ACE


Except these 'freedom fighters' of the future are tucked away either in ivory towers or well stocked bunkers.
The real fighters are using something much 'mightier than the sword' - the pen or the spoken word.
Do you fear your government, or do they fear you?

Of the people, by the people, for the people does not equate to "I'll be alright, I just loaded 600 rounds...."

Ever visited a country where the populace have no weapons but the Government/military does?
Our ancestors passed on this lesson for a reason and we should heed it.
Besides a gun really compliments my outfit.

reply to post by pteridine


The Constitution was written to address the short comings of the original Articles of Federation. The Magna Carta is basically a collection of privileges (private law), that the King (sovereign) grants to the subjects. The Constitution recognizes the people as sovereign. So yea, I guess you could say the entire premise of the Magna Carta is pretty screwed. haha.

reply to post by 46ACE


The problem I see with that video is that you are shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.
The law is that everyone, except felons, may own a gun. That's not really a filter for the crazy people, is it?
Punish them if they do something stupid? Too late then for the victims....or their family.
"Johnny got shot, but the guy who shot him was sentenced to 'life' in prison..." I feel better now.

People do crazy things, but crazy people with guns is all about a 'right' rather than rationale.

Originally posted by Badgered1
reply to post by 46ACE

 

Except these 'freedom fighters' of the future are tucked away either in ivory towers or well stocked bunkers.
The real fighters are using something much 'mightier than the sword' - the pen or the spoken word.
Do you fear your government, or do they fear you?

Of the people, by the people, for the people does not equate to "I'll be alright, I just loaded 600 rounds...."

The pen is mightier than the sword.

However, what do you do when your freedom of speech, and the various outlets like organized protests and the internet are regulated and restricted, making the pen not so mighty? The people fear the government, and because the government fears the people, the government will regulate these freedoms and the speech.

Freedom of speech is necessary. Pens and the spoken word are necessary. And the legality to own a firearm is necessary.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Oh, dear. AHEM!

Obviously we're talking about a gun ridden society here. Probably wouldn't happen in a country where firearms were not commonplace.....
This is the police shooting somebody by accident. Lucky he wasn't in a real 'carrying' town or he'd be riddled with bullets.

reply to post by arbitrarygeneraiist



Both the power of the pen and speech has lost its effect.... when you can sit down with a few folks and your congressman but get absolutely nowhere.. well.. its a useless endeavor these days.

When you can use what is available to you and try to vote someone out who is trampling on you.. and your other candidate is winning until they tally a certain area that is "bought".. yep.. thats useless too. I have quite a sotry with proof about this in my area. Amazing to me that people think that our right to vote is actually a valid way to control the megalomaniacs these days.

reply to post by kevinunknown



If another nation were to bring an invasion of troops to our nation you would be wishing you had a gun to defend yourself. That's the whole idea for the Second Amendment. It's so another nation can't try to take us over like Britain did.

reply to post by Advantage


I disagree that the pen and speech have lost their effect. Obama is proof that a person's charisma and speaking ability are two powerful weapons that can win the hearts and minds of a nation.

Whether you agree or disagree with Obama's policies, it cannot be disputed that he won the majority of the nation and media to his side.

Okay....here's a big question:
What is the one thing that would bring you NRA members out to oppose your government?
My guess is that it's already happened, and yet nothing has happened.

Note to mods: I am certainly not trying to incite violence with this, far from it.

Lots of big talk, and hiding behind 'rights' and amendments and absolutely no action.
Has the US been invaded? Isn't that what everyone is crying about with the whole 'border wars' (note: When the US government says "WAR" on anything it actually means "Spending")? Not one gun carrier out there...Not one.
Leave it to the feds, and complain when things don't go well?

Note to OP: Sorry if I'm 'hijacking' here. I just get really fired up over this 'right' when nobody seems to be clear about why they carry/own weapons. Love your thread.

If you're a gun owner, and you post about the government not doing what you think is right, you are absolutely breaking down the reason you own a gun in the first place.
You all can't come to any sort of agreement on what is the turning point, so there's no point in you being armed.

Troll!
I wonder how many of your other 1200+ posts are also inane attacks on our constitution.
I have an idea...Why don't you worry about your own country!
Let Americans deal with America.

Jeez I only got like three posts into this thread before I see that you're trying to strip out somebody's right to free speech as well.

That's it!
Done.
Anyone has anything to say to me? PM me because I'm not gonna waste time here anymore.

Ever hear the story of why the Imperial Japanese didn't invade the U.S.?
The advice to the top was words to the effect that there will be a gun behind every blade of grass.
Having a gun put in your hands at an appropriate age, determined by your family, not the Gov't., is a right of passage around here. Should you find that repulsive, sorry about your luck. Most of us here like it and are sworn to protect this and many other rights.
Just as even though I strongly disagree with your opinion on this topic, I really do enjoy the fact that you cannot be stopped from expressing it. I hope you extend the same courtesy to me.
Speaking of, isn't what you're saying equal to trying to make the point that only approved communications be allowed? Isn't the pen mightier that the sword? Think of the wars the may be averted if only State co-ordinated news were allowed.
Your logic would eventually demand that only state approved news media be permitted so as to keep the rabble,(that's us) fat and stupid?
Being an ATS'er, I assume you'd be screeching for your rights.
And wishing you had a gun for when they start telling you to report to the camps.
It has happened before, and it will happen again. Never forget the past.

Originally posted by Badgered1
reply to post by 46ACE

 

The problem I see with that video is that you are shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.
The law is that everyone, except felons, may own a gun. That's not really a filter for the crazy people, is it?
Punish them if they do something stupid? Too late then for the victims....or their family.
"Johnny got shot, but the guy who shot him was sentenced to 'life' in prison..." I feel better now.

People do crazy things, but crazy people with guns is all about a 'right' rather than rationale.

lets see,watch the entire gun control is b.s. show and they interview the pretty blonde texas legislator who actually lost her parents in the Lubeys' cafeteria shooting in texas.

part III


In a hearing before the texas legslature she describes the helpless feeling as she watches her mother being executed by the crazy realizing Texas law made her remove her gun from her purse and leave it in her car in the parking lot.before entering the restaraunt. One trained armed citizen could've saved all those victims,..

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by Advantage

 

I disagree that the pen and speech have lost their effect. Obama is proof that a person's charisma and speaking ability are two powerful weapons that can win the hearts and minds of a nation.

Whether you agree or disagree with Obama's policies, it cannot be disputed that he won the majority of the nation and media to his side.

Im speaking of opposing the ones in office due to certain unconstitutional things.. not electing a pretty speaker by the dazed masses. We went to the reps in person and didnt write letters or get petitions signed. No joy. That was in the Bush era.

As far as voting.. we experienced the corruption in Illinois.. and there wasnt one thing we could do about it last year. We hollered from the rooftops and gathered evidence.. handed it to Quinn on a silver platter.. nope. Didnt work. Even if you expose corruption you have NO recourse since they are not listening.

reply to post by Badgered1


Do you even realize what you're saying? The fact of the matter is I'm sure everyone is hopeful that it won't have to come to gun owners "defending" their right to own a gun. Because what that truly means is a Nazi-style governmental structure or a full-scale invasion on domestic land.

If you want to set a limit on what this reaching point is, those two things are it. I'm sure the people who own firearms do not want to oppose their government, because technically the government is supposed to be -for- the people, not against them. The government and the people are supposed to defend the constitution in tandem with one another.

The fact that people are behind their rights and amendments, hiding as you call it, means that these rights and amendments are a given. That means that people should not have to rally into action to have these rights. They already exist.

reply to post by kevinunknown


Indeed.
You basically have invited Armageddon into the Forum with those words.
And you also get the usual response about cars vs smimming pools vs guns, because It's my GOD given right!!, to living under a Dictatorship and the need to defend your patch of dirt against them thar revenuers. Then there are those that have Guns everywhere in the House because, what if I'm the Bathroom and I can't get to the Gun in the Kitchen. Then there are those that go everywhere straped to a Gun bacause they believe somebody is going sneak up behind them and attack them. And of couse the, I've gotta protect my stash Man.


And the Odd thing, those against Guns are civil and rational in their posts and those for Guns get really angry and abusive to those that are against guns. The last people you want to give guns to are those that are already angry about fear of not having a Nice warm Gun to snuggle up to.

reply to post by Advantage


That's precisely what the pen being mightier than the sword means, it means that someone like Obama who can daze people with his pretty words, can rise to power and win people over to his side.

I didn't necessarily say that the people who can utilize the spoken word in such a way that they were able to achieve their position in office, would always use their position and their support to do what is right by the people. It just means that the written and spoken word, if used by the right people, can be extremely effective.

Also, if people want change, they will rally for it. The examples that you explained to me sounds like not many people wanted the change. If you could rally an entire city or state under the same position, then the people in power would have to listen.

Raise more awareness and hope that the people will listen and join you. That's all anybody can really do. The people in question have to want the change.

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by Advantage

 

That's precisely what the pen being mightier than the sword means, it means that someone like Obama who can daze people with his pretty words, can rise to power and win people over to his side.

I didn't necessarily say that the people who can utilize the spoken word in such a way that they were able to achieve their position in office, would always use their position and their support to do what is right by the people. It just means that the written and spoken word, if used by the right people, can be extremely effective.

Also, if people want change, they will rally for it. The examples that you explained to me sounds like not many people wanted the change. If you could rally an entire city or state under the same position, then the people in power would have to listen.

Raise more awareness and hope that the people will listen and join you. That's all anybody can really do. The people in question have to want the change.

edit on 14-12-2010 by arbitrarygeneraiist because: (no reason given)

The apathy is incredible... among our representatives. For the average citizen the pen is NOT mightier than the sword. It may be for political talking heads.. but when you try to effect change through the normal channels you can get nowhere. COmparing the power of a political figure with the things that a citizen has at their disposal to fight it... well there is no comparison. We had our city and another.. in our county. The 3rd city was a bought city in Il thats well known for corruption. We got documentation of the corruption and handed it to Quinn. NOTHING happened. The people wanted change.. the one who could have effected did not.

Sorry OP.. off topic. Some time I can make a thread.. though no one should be surprised at what happened. Im in Illinois after all..