Atheist Ads on Buses Rattle Fort Worth

Originally posted by Sinnthia
Saying what? Are you putting words in my mouth and then failing to print them? What does the above mean? I read it as you admitting that you were wrong about atheism and then saying it is my fault for saying something else? Not getting it.

"There is no god." Quit playing dumb.

I will probably have to point something else out to you or you'll play dense in your next reply, so here it is. I said "your kind" as a sort of catch-all word for atheists on ATS because I did not feel like searching through your posts for a "gotcha". I have no idea if you personally have ever said "There is no god." Nevertheless I have a hunch that is your belief, regardless of how coy you try to be.

All I am saying is that those four words constitute a belief. Which they do. Nothing wrong with having a belief.

Originally posted by Sinnthia
No, not really. Words have meaning for a reason. We do not get to just willy nilly apply them to whatever we like. I can call my car an airplane but that wont make it fly, just me ignorant of the difference.

Yes, they do. Belief, for example, has a definition. "There is no god" fits the definition.

Originally posted by Sinnthia
What you are pointing out is that you refuse to accept what the word actually means and would like to make it mean something else so you can argue about it. That is just not how reality works. If you can say atheism is what it is not, then by that same token I can say christianity is a pederast cult and be just as correct as you. Thanks for that but I think I will stick to words as they are defined.

Okay. Forget I said anything about "atheism". It appears you are in such a defensive emotional stance that you have completely missed the point I made originally and have resorted to semantic nitpicking.

All I am trying to say is someone who believes there is no god has a belief.

If that's not the definition of atheism, then I got it wrong when I said "atheism". I'm sorry. I was wrong. Let me prostrate myself before you now.

Sheesh.

Originally posted by Sinnthia
Can you discuss religion WITHOUT deceptive practices or is that part of gods grace, to make stuff up?

I get the feeling you're assuming too much about me here.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Really? Then are those human beings who don't believe in deities or the supernatural freaks of some kind? Are they outside of human nature?

Humans choose to do things that are against their baser insticts all the time. Humans can chose to follow their logic rather than their insticts. Humans who do not believe in God are allowing their logic to overcome. I was raised religious, but I choose not to believe, as I find it illogical.

You gotta love the Christians, all for free speech until its the speaking of words they do not like to hear. i mean its not like Christian havn't been pushing their dogma on people for the last 2,000 years. How many atheist missionary's have their been going to all different parts of the globe trying to convert people to their way of thinking?

It's about time atheists started fighting back against the madness of organised religion.

Originally posted by nik1halo
If you can't prove it, it's a belief.

How so? I cannot prove that aliens do not come in my home at night and mate with my pets. Considering the thought never entered my mind until just now, it is hardly a "belief." I can sit here all day making up random things you cannot prove. Does that mean I have the power to sit here all day and create "beliefs" or do you need to look up that word?

A group of people believing the same thing is a belief system.

Look up "system" while you are at it.

therefore, Atheism is a religion lacking a God.

You just went from belief system to religion as if they are the same thing or one equates to the other without even properly defining belief system.

Go to websters online, take about 5 minutes and get back to me.

Originally posted by nik1halo
Let's put it this way. It is illogical to believe in unicorns,

According to you. And according to me and many others, it's just as illogical to believe in a deity. Believing in God is the antithesis of logic, in fact. So, using logic to distinguish between two things not proven puts you in a bit of a conundrum. Cognitive Dissonance.

For all you or I know, Unicorns could have once roamed the earth and have become extinct. Is it so impossible to imagine a one horned horse roaming the prehistoric plains?

Agreed. Anything is possible.

But, can you prove there is no God?

No. But my lack of belief in God is based on the same reasoning as my lack of belief in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Santa and unicorns.

What about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, who supposedly lives somewhere in space/time like God does? Do you believe in him? Is your disbelief in him a religion?

Originally posted by NewlyAwakened
"There is no god." Quit playing dumb.

When did I ever say that? I guess I need a quote or something or else I am going to keep playing dumb.

I will probably have to point something else out to you or you'll play dense in your next reply, so here it is. I said "your kind" as a sort of catch-all word for atheists on ATS because I did not feel like searching through your posts for a "gotcha". I have no idea if you personally have ever said "There is no god." Nevertheless I have a hunch that is your belief, regardless of how coy you try to be.

Did you just tell me that I am dumb for not acknowleding something I said before going on to write that you know I never actually said it? Are you ok?

All I am saying is that those four words constitute a belief. Which they do. Nothing wrong with having a belief.

Yes, those four words sure do constitute a belief. They do not define me or Atheism though so what is your point?

Originally posted by Sinnthia
Yes, they do. Belief, for example, has a definition. "There is no god" fits the definition.

I do not recally arguing that point. Do you always say one thing and then call a "gotcha" on another?

Originally posted by Sinnthia
Okay. Forget I said anything about "atheism". It appears you are in such a defensive emotional stance that you have completely missed the point I made originally and have resorted to semantic nitpicking.

Actually I just replied to what was written. If you wanted me to reply to what you meant then you should have added a disclaimer.

All I am trying to say is someone who believes there is no god has a belief.

You mean now all you are saying? Cool. Now that you have corrected yourself to agree with what I pointed out was wrong with your statement, I of course agree. Good job!

I

f that's not the definition of atheism, then I got it wrong when I said "atheism". I'm sorry. I was wrong. Let me prostrate myself before you now.

If you think it would help. I think looking up a word and using it correctly would suffice but you do what you want.

Sheesh.

Indeed. Want me to hold these boards while you nail yourself up now?

Originally posted by Sinnthia
I get the feeling you're assuming too much about me here.

No, that was a question. I asked you a question because I did not want to assume. I guess I came on the wrong board today. Where is the ENGLISH section?

No offense to anyone of another language but I am not multilingual and cannot really engage properly outside of the English language.

Originally posted by nik1halo
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Let's put it this way. It is illogical to believe in unicorns, so no i don't believe, but could I say 100%, with full conviction that it was completely impossible? No, because I don't know everything. For all you or I know, Unicorns could have once roamed the earth and have become extinct. Is it so impossible to imagine a one horned horse roaming the prehistoric plains?

Santa is a legend based on fact. Of a kindly man, St Nicholas or Santa Klaus, so yes, I believe in Santa, or at least that there was one. I know that the legend has been build upon to include magic etc to entice and excite kids, this is all historical fact. I can prove that the legendary Santa does not exist by going to the North Pole or Lapland or wherever your culture says he lives. He's not there.

But, can you prove there is no God?

Atheism isn't the belief that God is completely impossible.

reply to post by Sinnthia

One thing I would like to point out that I think I failed to mention: people have been saying "there is no God" in ATS almost daily for as long as I've been here. So if you're wondering why I assumed things about you, that's why. Apparently you are an atheist who does not possess internally the meme that there is no such thing as god. You're a rare breed, in my experience.

With that final clarification, I have stated all I wanted to say. It might be briefly expressed as "Many atheists believe there is no god and then deny having any beliefs." There, that is my belief. I am fairly sure of its truth.

So that's all I have to say. Anything further would be personal. I apologize for already making it personal; I was getting quite defensive myself.

Ultimately I just came here to make a point. And now I have.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I see your point about the distinction between *religion* (dogma- more or less) & spirituality. And I agree. AND I am similarly affected. But these protestations (or assertions or whatever) are not pointed at Baptists or Catholics or whoever, specifically. They are pointed at God. And/or people who believe in God. Are you kinda saying this some kind of nanner-nanner thing?
You are correct that religions are not God per se. Each religion has cultural & personal (or it should) perceptions of obedience, worship & their God's patronage- "rules". Religion- or *a* religion is what a particular person chooses (or sometimes it has been thrust on them) to express their relationship with God. I would ask you for the same: kindly don't make general assumptions about those who follow Christ. Many of us will tell you that there are people who *intentionally* call themselves "Christian" to sucker people. (hypocrites come in all stripes & might *even* unexpectedly appear in one's OWN mirror! uch

I've only heard about the anti Halloweens- it ticks me off just as much. There are dispensationalists (AKA non denominationals) who fight Santa Claus & the Easter Bunny & all the trappings just as hard as any atheist out there. This sucks! My God didn't put me here to live on this earth in a joyless, bleak, colorless world (look around at this *still* beautiful world) & didn't endow us with whimsical imaginations so we could squander them. Celebration is a natural instinct.
I am adamantly opposed to anyone who would inhibit another person's Free Will, which is, imho, God Given. (there are limits, of course- maybe that's the kicker) Choosing not not associate with another person *for any reason* is our right & mutually shared by all. An atheist can choose to associate only with other atheists or whatever, the same with any specific lifestyle. The beauty is that we ARE diverse- we are NEVER "the only one". (this should be the first thing we teach our kids- more than that they are "special") There's always going to be people who don't like us or disagree with us. That's just life. Really, whose loss IS it? And who wants to be "accepted" grudgingly (which means "not really". That just makes everyone miserable)? All of this cuts both ways, in every case.
Are people so miserably unhappy in their own lives that they have to focus on what's going on with other people's lives to avoid themselves? Or is it misery loves company?

I may be confused, BH. *I* thought the whole point was nobody bugs anybody else, we all myob & do our own thing, & everybody lives happily ever after (well, figuratively anyway) As it turns out, it is just musical chairs. This isn't going to end well because these are double standards that only displace the resentment & we've still got the problems. Actually, that's a key message of my faith: Keep your eyes on your OWN paper. Worry about who you are, not other people. It's so simple. I don't understand why people (or groups or "religions") try to complicate it

No, I don't think that anyone who belongs to a religion needs therapy lol even if I happen to think they're nuts. I think that anyone who feels a compulsion to impose their beliefs on other people needs therapy. I think that a compulsion to dominate absolutely- especially en masse, is extremely unhealthy- even sick. People's need for validation & affirmation can go too far. (Some folks are black holes of need & *nothing* is going to "help". They need to work it out with themselves) Insecurity is one thing between a person & their associates. Respectfully, I think this is much more than that.

let the children play... besides logic will prevail in the end.

Originally posted by NewlyAwakened
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

One thing I would like to point out that I think I failed to mention: people have been saying "there is no God" in ATS almost daily for as long as I've been here. So if you're wondering why I assumed things about you, that's why.

You assumed something about me and even called me dumb for not owning up to it simple because of your limited experience on one internet forum and you feel that is a good reason?

Apparently you are an atheist who does not possess internally the meme that there is no such thing as God. You're a rare breed, in my experience.

Your experience seems quite limited to me if all you have to go in is what people say on ATS. There is a world outside. That is where I got my dictionary. I went out in the sun and traveled to a whole different building with people in it. Not secondlife, either. OUTSIDE. Atheism is NOT the belief that there is not god. You can tell by the word itself. It means WITHOUT DEITIES. It does not mean DENIAL OF DEITIES. It does not mean OPPOSITION TO DEITIES. It certainly does not even address any specific deities. It is not anti Allah. It is not Anti Greek council of gods. It is not Anti superfriends. It is simply WITHOUT. I know that is a tough concept for a lot of people. This usually comes from people such as Christians accosting Atheists and backing them into a corner to a point where they become defensive and adamant about something that did not even matter to them to begin with. Then again, that is just my experience from interacting with people in schools, churches, and social venues, you know OUTSIDE OF ATS. People are not born on this forum, do not pretend it creates.

With that final clarification, I have stated all I wanted to say. It might be briefly expressed as "Many atheists believe there is no God and then deny having any beliefs." There, that is my belief. I am fairly sure of its truth.

Many Christians believe dancing is evil. Would it be fair for me to deny the word Christianity means following of Christ and thus define it as the belieg that dancing is evil?

So that's all I have to say. Anything further would be personal. I apologize for already making it personal; I was getting quite defensive myself.

Because
I
attacked you?

Ultimately I just came here to make a point. And now I have.

Well...as long as you think so.

Quit playing dumb.

Apology accepted.

More about the Atheist Bus Campaign. I think there's a bigger message here. It's not just about dueling religions, it's about people indoctrinating children with their beliefs and not letting the kids choose for themselves.

en.wikipedia.org...

The final phase of the campaign challenged the idea that children should be labelled with their parents' religion. In November 2009, an ad appeared on billboards, not buses, in London, Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast, displaying a young girl's picture with the caption "Please don't label me" followed by "Let me grow up and choose for myself". The background displays phrases ascribing various labels to the child—"Libertarian child", "Catholic child", "Sikh child", "Capitalist child", "Atheist child", "Protestant child", and so forth

I think it's pretty funny that some people who have been advertising their religion and position on God for thousands of years have an issue with atheists voicing their position!

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Let's say a random group of Atheists decided to get together once a week to organize pilgramages. Each trip, they would canvas a neighborhood and knock on people's doors in pairs and ask if they could spend some times talking about the lack of evidence for superstitions, fairy tales, fantasy characters, and gods of all kinds. How do you suppose that would play in the media today?

Gotta go, Mormons at my door.

Originally posted by DogsDogsDogs
But these protestations (or assertions or whatever) are not pointed at Baptists or Catholics or whoever, specifically. They are pointed at God.

Actually, they are pointed at atheists. They are saying - It's OK to be an atheist and state your position. They are not attacking religion or anyone. They are expressing themselves. If I make a huge sign and carry it around saying "I LOVE BLUE", I'm not attacking any color, nor am I going after people who love green. An expression of one's position is not an attack on anyone else.

. Are you kinda saying this some kind of nanner-nanner thing?

Um, no. I'm not sure what you mean.

I would ask you for the same: kindly don't make general assumptions about those who follow Christ.

Where did I do that?

I may be confused, BH.
...
Actually, that's a key message of my faith: Keep your eyes on your OWN paper. Worry about who you are, not other people. It's so simple. I don't understand why people (or groups or "religions") try to complicate it

These ads don't attack anyone, though. That's where I think your confusion lies. They are by atheists, for atheists. They say: “Millions of people are good without God.” and “Don’t believe in God? You are not alone.”

No, I don't think that anyone who belongs to a religion needs therapy lol even if I happen to think they're nuts. I think that anyone who feels a compulsion to impose their beliefs on other people needs therapy.

But these bus ads aren't any more imposing than a church on the corner or a bible in a hotel room. Atheists aren't coming to your door selling their wares. They are exercising their freedom of expression.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

In other words, it's human nature to believe in deities and the supernatural

Really? Then are those human beings who don't believe in deities or the supernatural freaks of some kind? Are they outside of human nature?

This piques my curiosity! What is the history of atheism? I've read all sorts of (speculation, really, because it is based on artifacts rather than an actual written record) history re the spiritual customs of various cultures, but I've never heard of one that didn't have any. Information blackout? More secretive than the pagans (they were "mainstream" until they began to be persecuted by the spread of the Romans)? Does anyone know? Who were the iconic thinkers? What are the origins? What happened- or was the situation, at any given time? How did they live, generally (their culture)?
To answer your question- not necessarily "outside" of human nature.

reply to post by Sinnthia


In some areas, I bet it would be summarily outlawed. As long as the message is religion, it's OK to impose, but if atheists did it, it would be challenged and probably dealt with.

Atheists are still seen as evil, 'godless', immoral and dark-sided by many people. It's kinda funny. But times are changin'.

reply to post by DogsDogsDogs


Google History of atheism. There's LOTS of stuff to read. It's not new. In fact, it's much older than religion. We started as atheists.

reply to post by DogsDogsDogs


The history of Atheism is simple. It suprecedes all supernatural, suspicious, or any kind of "belief" at all. Animals are atheistic.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
If this particular atheist group is so cool with their lack of beliefs, why the need to announce they are good without God?

From what I read its because some atheists (the ones doing the advertising) believe that certain people brought up under certain conditions or in certain environments don't know that it is okay to reject god and become an atheist in todays society. For instance, children in strict catholic schools and the like where one would be disciplined harshly for such a belief, ironically, this is exactly the thing that causes many children brought up in religious environments to become atheists.

Or maybe its just to piss Christians off with our flashy bus ads and billboard signs with happy looking families on them and clouds and stuff.

Sorry other dog person, didn't realize you had answered this already.

Here we have the EXACT behavior that makes people turned off with religion....judgementalism, need to announce belief system via public method....wait a minute, isn't atheism the LACK of belief??

So public advertising is judgmental? That makes about as much sense as the radioactive half-life of chocolate chip cookies.

Yes it is a lack of belief, much like Mothers Against Drunk Driving is a lack of belief in getting sloshed and going out for a joyride, but they still hold meetings. Should they NOT be able to congregate, discuss and speak out about what they believe to be right because, in fact, they DON'T believe it is right? Meanwhile alcoholic motorists, because drunk driving is a concept, can talk smack all day long?

Assuming you are a Christian of the same brand as I see on signs by the interstate everywhere I go, statements like these are so hypocritical it's silly. Do you even realize what you sound like? Or are you just saying this to get some nerves riled?

Originally posted by Sinnthia
reply to post by DogsDogsDogs

 

The history of Atheism is simple. It suprecedes all supernatural, suspicious, or any kind of "belief" at all. Animals are atheistic.

As are humans at birth.

As a Christian I must say that I disagree with what is said on that sign on the side of the bus.

I however cannot say they should not be allowed to put it there. My right to believe as I wish is the same as it is not to believe anything at all. I just wish people would learn to get along with each other regardless of creed. Haven't we been fighting over it for long enough? What is it now? 10000 years or so?