dark figure by my bed

I meant asystole, or EKG flat-line baby, as in lacking any QRS complexes, or what most people would consider death. When the old monitor ain�t makin� that blip-blip sound no more�


I am sorry I did not have any reference books lying around at the moment to check the spelling on this, but I only misspelled it by one L, not bad for me really. You know that is why so many medical people write so badly, too many long difficult to spell words, not enough dictionaries lying around or time to look everything up��


I will U2U you and give it a shot, if you know a doctor that is in the mid western coast of Florida. I am pretty new to this BBS thing and don�t know how to U2U yet but will figure it out tonight when I have a chance.


But back to the topic, you totally dismissed the most important part of the post that I placed before. Which is this, when we treat a patient with the proper settings of CPAP why is there a period of REM rebound that occurs until the body makes up for the deficit of REM sleep it has accumulated during the periods when it was unable to remain in stage REM.


If it is simply spiritual entities that cause REM and there are no physical factors involved, then REM should be maintained if there is an open airway or not, it should also be maintained in patients that are placed on REM inhibiting medications. As such it also follows that when this airway is reestablished that if it where telepathic entities (TE�s like reverse Et�s, I like that!!) communicating REM, then why would this stage of sleep increase once the obstructed airway is splinted?�.


I can understand now where you are coming from to a point and as such I pose these additional questions to you:


Parapsychology is young as a science, and one of the most difficult things with the study of this is the inability to find quantifiable, measurable data to collect. Parapsychologists at this point can collect magnetic fluctuations, temperature changes, electrical anomalies, audio recordings, and photographic and video footage on a wide scale of light frequencies. I know this because when I was younger I thought it would be an interesting field to go into and still keep up on some of stuff written on the subject.


In medicine, we collect ACTUAL recorded measurable data. On a standard sleep study we read L/Roc (eye movements), EMG (electromyography, or muscle tone), at least 2 channels of Central brain activity (C3 and C4) and 2 channels from the Optical lobe (O1and O2) of Electroencephalogram (EEG), EKG (heart), L/Rat (limb movements), Snore, PTAF or pressure transduced airflow, Abdominal and thoracic effort, Intercostals Muscle effort, SAO2 or O2 saturation, Heart rate, infra red room recording devices, high sensitivity room microphones, just to name a few. There are many more if we are looking for something specific.


The point is that this data is collected on thousands of people across the world every night, and has been since the 70�s (and most of the technology has been used since the 50�s). You would think that a few trends would show up over the years from that much accumulated measurable data.


So now that being said, what is the quantifiable measurable data to show your point out validates mine?


On what frequency are you monitoring these telepathic communications?
I�ll take a scanner to work with me and give it a try tonight when one of my patients goes into REM.


At what setting should I use on the infrared camera�s to catch one of these TE�s in action, I am already using infrared, which is what most parapsychologists use, can you suggest another?


Is there some other trick that you are using to show that these entities exist, or cause REM or any other sleep disorders?


Where are the ET�s and TE�s on the nights that these patients are monitored, do they check with all the sleep labs across the entire planet to ensure that the target of their nights activity is not going to be in a lab somewhere?


Do they alter the technician�s memory, and the recorded data both on the polygraph and the camera?


Are Polysomnographers everywhere part of the PTB�s cover-up, in the know, illuminists, Men in Black (Actually I do usually wear black scrubs), or what?


Or is it just that you HATE traditional medicine, or are afraid to go to see a real doctor because he will tell you something that you do not wish to hear?


I think that I have been pretty open mined and fair with you up to this point. It was never my intention to have to type out half this much stuff when I started, I was simply giving a piece of advice (that was good, fair, and open minded advice, meant to help) to someone with a problem, and based on the description that person gave it showed certain symptoms that prompted that advice.


Now you be fair. Before you accuse me of being of the, �dialectical materialistic mindset�, again because I am asking for quantifiable measurable evidence, consider this:


Your buddies the parapsychologists are looking for that exact thing, but have as to date not shown anything that can be proven. Are they also of the, �dialectical materialistic mindset�, for trying to find this evidence?


Is there nothing to the scientific process in your mind, or is it only a factor when it supports what you personally believe?


And finally, I have told you across these many posts that I am a Christian. That I do believe there are things beyond our perception (familiar spirits, daemons, neliphim, a GOD). That I have worked in ONE place that was truly haunted by something that was witnessed by more then just me. That if you really want to see some strange stuff go work at a hospital because strange stuff happens in them all the time. That most doctors I know are very spiritual (they may not go into it with their patients) but they are. There is one doctor I know whose wife is an acupuncturist, sounds like they are pretty spiritual to me. I personally have read way beyond the norm into paranormal and spiritual things ( you get a lot of time to read doing my job ), I have read into the Cabala, the Pseudopigraphia, Egyptian texts, Babylonian texts, you name it I have most likely read it ( matter of fact here is a excellent site or old historical texts online www.earth-history.com... ). For crying out loud I am posting on a conspiracy theory web site. Do you really feel that I have a dialectical materialistic mindset, just because I say that you should eliminate the factors in an orderly process starting with the ones we can understand, measure, and control?


One more thing about the medical people I know, and what I have seen about their level of spirituality. Ill tell you I have done a lot of different jobs over the years, and have worked in everything from aviation to computers to medicine, and only in the medical field was it EVER acceptable to discuss religion, spirituality, you name it. When you deal with that stuff every day, people are going to talk about it. When medical people get attached to a patient and the person dies, it affects them, and unfortunately that happens a lot when you work with sick people. If you feel that people in medicine are distant, not listening, acting aloof, unsympathetic, it�s a protection mechanism to shield them from what often ends up happening to the people they work on (often pain, sometimes death), it becomes automatic.


I used to joke about how I how have to lose a limb before anything that happened to me as a kid would effect my mother, the normal scratches bruises and stuff that my friends parents would be running to the ER over, my mother would look at them and say, �well, you�ll live�, and you know what, I always did. That same person used to come home often at night upset because she had to Pull-The-Plug on some sweet old grandma or grandpa that she was pulling for. So now tell me how would you COPE with that situation, or have you ever had to?


Yep most medical personnel don�t dismiss death, near death or anything about the subject as CRAP��.


Anyway I have enjoyed this debate, and would not mind continuing it, but maybe we should take it off this poor guys thread. Can the mods move our posts to a debate thread somewhere, do they have the POWER?

Just let me know??

[edit on 7/8/2004 by defcon5]

defcon5,

You stated:

>

As stated, a part of the brain is involved in being the receptor of the telepathic messages from Spirit and REM inhibiting medications apparently block the brain's ability to receive those messages.

>

I agree. The inherent limitation of parapsychological studies is that some things cannot be proven in a laboratory, but they are nonetheless still quite valid. That is why I didn't pursue becoming a parapsychologist. It would have meant that I would had to constantly water down my conclusions from personal experience because I couldn't validate them with physically-based instrumentation.

>

That would largely depend on what one was looking for and if there were any biased viewpoints that would distort an objective appraisal.

>

This:

Landmark NDE Case Of Brain Dead Woman Having Memories

Do I need to post it again or are you actually going to READ IT this time?

>

Bingo. That's the problem. Physical instrumentation cannot directly measure telepathy, much less zero in on a specific frequency or vibration. The same goes for filming discarnates; you can only film a telekinetic or holographic projection, not the spirits themselves -- as they exist on a vibration of energy that is beyond the ability of any physical device to directly measure.

>

No trick. As a spiritual medium, I just communicate with them directly.

>

Discarnates have their own agendas. Predicting their behavior is a tricky affair since they know exactly what you are up to.

>

Let's leave the Men in Black for another thread.

>

Sorry, I have been to western doctors many times. Just had a physical recently. I have found through experience that nutritional doctors tend to be more REAL than medical doctors simply because they teach methods to prevent illness as well as how to treat it without drugs.

>

This is your attempt at levity, right? *L*

>

That's a good question. I would assume that they are not since they are trying to find evidence to prove that which cannot be proven with physical evidence. It's the ones that don't consider anecdotal evidence and indirect physical evidence that tend to be more of the DM mindset.

>

True.

>

You tell me.

>

There are many ways to cope. One way is to learn how to communicate with Spirit directly. This lessens the feelings of being distant from those that have crossed over.

Originally posted by misspickle

My thought is that what you do in your current life effects what you are going to be in your next life- so if you are a criminal and have done loads wrong then you would come back as a bug or something and if you had done well in your currnet life then you go on to become something great- please tell me what you think.

Anyway thank you both for showing interest in my experience!!

Hi Miss Pickle,

You're welcome...

I agree that one should always strive to live by The Golden Rule, as everything that one does, and even one's thoughts and intentions, reverberate and come back to the person, directly and indirectly.

However, contrary to what many espouse, I don't think that one's future life necessarily rewards or punishes. There are many spiritual people that have had miserable lives. The real reward or punishment is in the discarnate dimensions. When you live a life of service to others, Radiate Love and strive to live by The Golden Rule, you increase your ability to unite with The Light after you leave the flesh. The more you can ascend into The Light, the more powerful the dimension and the more spiritual the plane.

Hence, the cosmic equalizer is The Light, not anything which happens in the flesh.

I do not have the time to write another book, I am tired, and I have to work tonight and thus must go to sleep myself. I will have to comment that you once again tactfully skipped the first question. It�s been in the last two posts, what is the problem, you cannot answer this question?

As far as the link goes, yeah I browsed it, but they are talking about traditional doctors, which you do not trust to begin with, freezing this woman�s brain to stop cell degeneration due to lack of oxygen, It is already known that lowering body temperature allows unoxygenated cells to last longer (or die slower) then normal. I already told you that the brain does not start to die until the cells in it run out of O2 to sustain themselves and degenerates. So what is your point here?

Why don�t you start quoting some REAL evidence from a credible source, like the Stanford School of Sleep medicine, or Walter Reed sleep center, or Harvard, or something? Not something that you are most likely running on a server in your back bedroom to prove your point., to the people that you are counseling?


The other day I read that someone had an EVIL toaster that burned every slice of bread in the STAR magazine, I saw a rabbit talk on TV last night, it does not make either a credible source, don�t waste my time��..


I will post again later tonight or early tomorrow. Slam me between all you will, but I think that most out there see where your coming from. If you want to argue your point post links worth following, please�.

Originally posted by defcon5

As far as the link goes, yeah I browsed it, but they are talking about traditional doctors, which you do not trust to begin with, freezing this woman�s brain to stop cell degeneration due to lack of oxygen, It is already known that lowering body temperature allows unoxygenated cells to last longer (or die slower) then normal. I already told you that the brain does not start to die until the cells in it run out of O2 to sustain themselves and degenerates. So what is your point here?

Why don�t you start quoting some REAL evidence from a credible source...

Pam Reynolds was found to be brain dead in ALL THREE CLINICAL TESTS.

So let us get this straight...

You don't believe that Dr. Michael Sabom, a cardiologist, is a reputable source?

The reason why I provided that reference is precisely because it stems from within the traditional medical community.

I never stated or impled that ALL traditional doctors and medical personnel are biased fools, only that most of them either are and/or have been taught to be! *L*

Dr. Michael Sabom is a very credible doctor and a noteworthy exception to the general rule of bias regarding NDE's among most in the medical community. You refusing the evidence from a doctor that has more expertise in this area than you do only proves my point that you're conclusions are twisted by prejudice!

This discussion is ended as I don't consider you as experienced or as reputable as Dr. Michael Sabom.

Time to add another biased fool to my ignore list.



[edit on 8-7-2004 by Paul_Richard]

Hello miss pickle. I have heard the same thing about reincarnation. I can't say I believe in it, nor do I disbelieve. I think it is possible, I haven't read or meditated enough to gather a theory.

First I hope you have not placed me in your ignore list, at least not yet. Either way anyone else reading this can see where you are wrong.


What�s the problem you cannot answer the same question I have repeatedly asked. What, does it back you into a corner and your only escape is to change from the subject of REM sleep to near death experiences?


You say that I called Dr Sabom an uncredible source, but this is a bending of what I said, I said the source LINK is a biased and uncredible source. I have no problem with the Doctor mentioned in the article, nor the procedures preformed, as a matter of fact two of the three tests you mentioned are run on an EEG, just like I am using right now��


When you answer me you take only pieces of my posts, and use them out of context against me, what kind of open-minded evidence is that to anyone about anything? It does nothing to prove your point; it just shows you to be argumentative. Then once you are backed into a corner you just say, �That�s it I won, I will ignore the rest you have to say�. WOW that shows how credible you are.


You say you win because Dr Sabom is more experienced then me. Well he is, but were he to read our posts I GARUNTEE you he would agree with what I am saying about sleep.


The Biased fool here is you, first you don�t believe in medicine, or doctors, then you throw out one OFF TOPIC quote by one MD, and when the credibility of that source (link not Doctor) is questioned you CALL ME BIASED?


Yeah you won, REM is caused by telepathic ghost communication, Insanity is caused by people that are possessed with daemons, Blood letting is the best way to remove the BAD BLOOD from a sick patient, AND you still cannot answer my question about REM rebound.


People like you spread fear and ignorance, you cause more damage with wild speculation and sensationalism, then help. We would still be living in the dark ages if you had your way.

Nuf said�� Now you may ignore me to your hearts content.

Hi all-
Something else has happend- well i dont remember ifI said about my boyfriend feeling someone poke him in the eye whilst drifting off to sleep?...
Well it has happend again but when it happend he saw a dark figure.

I dont really know to much about the paranormal- but i am doing more research into it- and reading through some of the disscutions on this thread i am getting a little bit confused- sorry!!

Ms_Bhavn- It is an interesting topic!! but i dont really know much about it so again more research for me!!

Wow this issue has deteriorated .... should'nt the main focus be on trying to help Ms_Bhavn with the problem of an unknown entity intruding on her life?. I havent been folowing this that closely but it seems to me you guys are arguing over semantics now.
I had a similar experience years ago with a force like this and it was a very hard thing to get rid of. Finally a person who was good at astral projection asked if they could help and identified a male spirit that was atrracted to the high electrical energy that my recording equipment in my basement produced, and it happend that this fellow was young and liked the music as well (this was back in 1986 and i was new to astral projection or this type of phenom) long story short the person who helped me contacted this spirit and let him know that i was scared and that it was time for him to move on.It worked and it has been a long time since i have had to worry about this type of thing, maybe you could try to find someone like i did Ms_bhavn to help you as well.
Parker

[edit on 9-7-2004 by parker]

[edit on 9-7-2004 by parker]

[edit on 10-7-2004 by parker]

Originally posted by misspickle
Hi all-
Something else has happend- well i dont remember ifI said about my boyfriend feeling someone poke him in the eye whilst drifting off to sleep?...
Well it has happend again but when it happend he saw a dark figure.

I dont really know to much about the paranormal- but i am doing more research into it- and reading through some of the disscutions on this thread i am getting a little bit confused- sorry!!

Hi Miss Pickle,

Suggest to your boyfriend that the next time this happens, that he challenge that energy verbally, calmly but forcefully. Tell him to give the negative influence the "what for."

This simple measure can often work wonders in eradicating a negative discarnate influence.

Let us know what happens.

I myself have experienced Sleep Paralysis also, and know it can be frightening--down right life altering and terrifying. I also know a classic sign is a forboding and malevolent presence...I liken it to when a movie "turns bad" when the scene goes dark and and the minor chord music starts.......and the best part is --you cant move or speak.
The exhaustion of not being able to sleep just makes it worse--because the faster you fall asleep, the higher the chance you will experience SP.
This can be a sign of narcolepsy and other sleep disorders as already stated in this thread.

I can induce this state at will, Therefore, I believe most experiences of this nature are physiological and not supernatural--Though I am a life long explorer of supernatural phenomenon, and I would not rule out anything 100%.

I can tell you thru awarness training you can banish the "entity" or hallucination and continue on with a more comfortable experience of lucidity or OBE.

The "snap" you heard is common. It is common to feel and electric shock type sensation in your head neck or body that can be rather uncomfortable--believe me I know

Thanks Parker

I have heard stories they can be hard to get rid of. I will find someone in this area who will help. Maybe it won't come back.

xxKrisxx,

I don't have a sleeping disorder. I have had OBE's (not willed) and I have done astral projections. Exactly what is lucid dreaming??? Is that like astral projection?? Is the person awake when this is happening?? ...Wondering

www.anomalies-unlimited.com...

this is some good stuff on shadow people and two pictures.

MachineGunJordon

How weird. Looks like an entity of some sort. Scarry!

Thanks!

Originally posted by ms_Bhavn
xxKrisxx,

I don't have a sleeping disorder. I have had OBE's (not willed) and I have done astral projections. Exactly what is lucid dreaming??? Is that like astral projection?? Is the person awake when this is happening?? ...Wondering

Lucid dreaming is being aware you are having a dream , and this gives you the ability to manipulate the dream. -- You can also enter OBE thru lucid dreams . You are ofcourse, asleep at the time, but you realize, "Hey, I am in a dream, cool."

The sensations and perceptions are not the same as OBE. They not as real as OBE.

KRis

You do not necessarily have to have a sleep disorder, to experience SP. Changes in lifestyle, traumatic experience, change in patterns, illness, ect., can induce sleep disturbances which cause the experience. This can be an "acute" case opposed to a chronic affliction.
Mine happened after the loss of a loved one. When I learned what it was, I learned how to interupt it, or develope it into lucidity.


[edit on 12-7-2004 by xxKrisxx]

Originally posted by dlbrandt
The first, if you haven't is to accept Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. If you have, are you involved in anything that is satanic or of the occult?

LOL

xxKrisxx

Lucid dreaming sounds cool. I don't ever have those experiences. Thanks for the explaination.

I just need to ask. Have u ever used a Ouija board? It sounds weired I know. But, people who have used Ouija boards and have failed to END the conversation with the other side, are often still with them. Physically or mentally. If u still have it, I suggest you burn it.

Yasuhiko23.......In my teen years some girlfriends and I used the Ouija. I haven't since and don't own one. I agree with you... I would suggest burning it also. Thanks