lack of smacking and how its affecting law and order

I read this article and I am sure there are lots of others

www.fotf.ca...

quoting


But what parent does that today when people are watching? The antispanking movement of the last 15 years has done a brilliant job propagating the view that spanking is just another form of child abuse.

Before I continue, let me state categorically that I reject spanking as a primary method of discipline. Let no one see this article as encouragement to parents to spank their children for every little thing. It goes without saying that I support all efforts to end the physical abuse of children, but I do not think that spanking, used rarely and judiciously, is abuse. Rather, it can be useful in some situations, with many kids.

The first question the skeptic asks: Was there more violence and crime in the '50s and '60s than there is now? The answer, of course, is no. "To be sure, there is at least three times as much violent crime today as there was 30 years ago," writes Harvard's James Q. Wilson, author of Crime and Human Nature and The Moral Sense. But if the theory that more spanking equals more societal violence is correct, the '50s and '60s should have been a hellish period of violent crime. Parents spanked more then. According to Straus himself, 99 per cent of American parents spanked or used some form of corporal punishment in 1950; today, everyone, including Straus, agrees that the use of corporal punishment and spanking has declined. Survey figures say that 70 to 90 per cent of parents now spank.

A careful look at U.S. crime statistics also refutes the idea that spanking equals more societal violence. Between 1985 and 1993, violent crime actually decreased by 20 per cent among males 25 or older, while it increased 65 per cent for males 18 to 24 and by 165 per cent for 14- to 17-year-old males. So those who grew up in a period of more spanking were, and are, less violent than younger people who have grown up in a period of declining approval and practice of spanking. This does not prove that a decrease in spanking makes societies more violent, but these statistics throw cold water on any notion that blames spanking for societal violence.

end of quote



I dont have children but feel that parents should have the right to mete out reasonable punishments [but not abuse]

so with smacking - no more than 3 and then on the bottom or on the hand.

now what about pets? people are complaining their pets are peeing or pooing in the house or scratchign or biting them

suggest to them a little smack of the animal or a time out in a carry cage and all of them attack me for my views and even a shout is also seen as abuse - so what is left? let the cat or dog do as they please ?

why?

if 1 little smack or 1 little time out in a carry cage fixes the problem fast why is it so bad? I am not advocating abuse - just a smack as a last resort or time out in a carry cage for 1 or 3 hours during the night?

so these people who do not approve of punishment meted out to a child or a dog or cat - they can have problem children and problem dog and problem cat.

I strongly feel that we should use common sense and sometimes resort to a smack or a time out or raise your voice

we might be surprised that the receipient of the smack or the time out will actually be grateful for havign ground rules imposed strongly

now let see how many flames posts this attracts from ppl who believe that no smacking or time out or raised voice should ever be used even if nothign else is effective and that is the only effective way

I agree with you for the most part. I was thinking this was going to be about cops needing to beat people more and I would agree with that as well.. lol.. any who.. I don't spank because my kids are too young and they arn't that bad yet. a good parent won't have to use much spanking if they bring them up well.. good job.. S&F

Originally posted by Reaper2137
I agree with you for the most part. I was thinking this was going to be about cops needing to beat people more and I would agree with that as well.. lol.. any who.. I don't spank because my kids are too young and they arn't that bad yet. a good parent won't have to use much spanking if they bring them up well.. good job.. S&F [/quote

no beating of anyone

but a smack is sometimes necessary

why do people react so badly when I say I do believe in a certain amount of punishment?

I shout at my cat 'no'

they reckon I should use a water spray

but

ifthe cat is backing up to my computer to pee on it I should water spray the cat and so get water on my computer and have it fail because electricity and water dont mix? should I throw something to make a noise? if miss I could hit the cat and knock it out!

so I shout 'no'

why is that so horrendous?

why is it so bad to do things which do stop the cat peeing on my things? shout 'no' and occasional couple of smacks and some time out in a carry cage and the cat is cured of 6 years continuous peeing daily all over the house

so what was so wrong with that? nothign else worked - nothing - I tried everything

I resorted to those 3 punishments as a last resort and I am the monster

but think about it - if a cat pees all over the house and you dont cure it you will likely have the cat put down

so isnt it better to shout 'no' or to give it a couple of smacks or to put in carry cage for 30 minutes as a time out?

and with children - isnt it better to smack a few times and so maybe they will not grow up to commit crimes? and end up in jail

for the record I smacked my cat 1 time in 10 years - only 1 time

it worked

A little smack on the lower leg and a warning not to do that again.

That protected kids, and they knew where they were.

The whole politically correct thing has wrecked the world and led to lies and mayhem.

Originally posted by catwhoknows
A little smack on the lower leg and a warning not to do that again.

That protected kids, and they knew where they were.

The whole politically correct thing has wrecked the world and led to lies and mayhem.

i totally agree

we need to use common sense and neither the bible advocated spare the rod and spoil the child is correct nor the total abstinence of punishments when they are needed

I see so many children break eggs in the supermarket and the mother has given up telling her children off - what would be so wrong about a timely 1 smack in the butt? well if she smacks she will likely get so many strangers telling her off for it

People forgot the old saying.. Spare the rod .. Spoil the child .. It shows in the problems that are present in western civilisation as result.. vast difference between discipline and abuse that was overlooked for "political correctness" ..

Originally posted by megabyte

now what about pets? people are complaining their pets are peeing or pooing in the house or scratchign or biting them

if 1 little smack or 1 little time out in a carry cage fixes the problem fast why is it so bad? I am not advocating abuse - just a smack as a last resort or time out in a carry cage for 1 or 3 hours during the night?

so these people who do not approve of punishment meted out to a child or a dog or cat - they can have problem children and problem dog and problem cat.

Like anything else in moderation it's probably okay, but do it all the time and you destroy something in people or pets. I find that when most people strike they don't it out of personal anger for their lack of control instead of being used is disciplinary technique.

I would never smack a pets carry cage that's borderline torture if you ask me, but to each his own it's not illegal as far as I know.

As far as dogs are concerned I find that if you take them for a walk once or twice a day they don't poop in the house unless they're sick or something. I think far too many people have pets and don't have enough time for them, thus the animals act out. With dogs you have to be the pack leader. If you don't have the time don't take it out on the pet for your lack of attention.

It's not about how much you spend on them it's how much time you allocate to lead them for both kids and pets. Of course if you're wealthy enough you can pay others to do the job for you..

I would never smack a pets carry cage that's borderline torture if you ask me, but to each his own it's not illegal as far as I know.

..

what gave the impression is hit the carry cage? what would that achieve?

I use a carry cage as time out

I did smack a cat because she has been peeing around the house - she wanted to be a top cat and bully other cats and peed where the other cats liked to sit so those cats smelt of her pee

so I smacked her and shouted 'no'

and I stop her every time I think she is on a mission to bully another cat

she gets put in carry cage for time out for bullying another cat

it works - I have a pee-free home for the last 2 years

it took a lot for me to finally resort to a smack and a time out cage but nothign else worked - for 6 long years - the furniture I had to throw out because she peed on things- it gets very expensive not to smack a cat ever

I dont agree to smacking as a first resort and prefer to reason with my cat - but sometimes nothing else will do

The problem is that many, many parents don't know how to spank their children. They slap their children up with vile rage, disgust, and scar them emotionally. They attempt to do it later into adolescence when they are transitioning and emotionally frail. I have never and I mean NEVER seen a parent spank a child in a correctional manner, but instead slap the hell out of them in a knee-jerk fashion that leaves the child hurt both inside and out. They stop what they were doing for the moment, but at a cost that can last a lifetime and yield the opposite desired behavioral effects later.

reply to post by megabyte


I agree and disgree, there is nothing wrong with "spanking", IMO, in extreme circumstances, however, if you bring your child up correctly there is never a need to spank them. What i mean is the tone ofyour voice should be enough to deter a child from enaging in activities you see unfit/unsafe.

I am a father and my son is 18months old. I have never spanked him because he CANT do anything wrong. he is doing what is natural, exploring, curious etc. He knows no wrong so me spanking him is wrong. If he does something i feel is unfit or unsafe i keep a stern voice and make glaring eye contact with him. This has alwas worked for me and his mother and he immediately stops what he's doing.

Children dont deserve to be spanked unless the do something very serious and on purpose. There are far more punishments that can be dished out to children to make them learn. Punishment is about teaching your child that his/her actions always have an effect and there is a punishment when their actions are negative. Spanking a child only scares them, mentally and physically. It is teaching them that when someone does something you dont agree with, just hit them.

Children learn behaviours very quickly. Talking sternly to a child illustrates protection, security and respect. Every child craves this and the deserve it.

reply to post by jrmcleod


I agree

as a last resort

but some ppl think that even time out is cruelty

c'mon ppl - some punishment is necessary at necessary times and for good reason

It is a proven fact that you psychologically learn something specific if you learn it with pain stimuli included. In fact this is probably the most efficient way to learn something, because you'll learn it if you don't want to continue getting hurt.

This is more effective on young children too since they will rebel more UNLESS they know you aren't screwing around.

I'm not saying beat your kid, but some textbook spanking doesn't cut it most of the time either. It's all up to the parents' discretion.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
It is a proven fact that you psychologically learn something specific if you learn it with pain stimuli included. In fact this is probably the most efficient way to learn something, because you'll learn it if you don't want to continue getting hurt.

This is more effective on young children too since they will rebel more UNLESS they know you aren't screwing around.

I'm not saying beat your kid, but some textbook spanking doesn't cut it most of the time either. It's all up to the parents' discretion.

that is exactly my point and it applies to dogs and cats as well as small children

but the anti spanking lobby has gone overboard and you are considered a monster if you want to smack 1 little smack or as I have found out - suggest some time out time in a carry cage for a cat

in the case of a cat - what are you supposed to do if the cat scratches the sofa? you have to stop the cat but you dont want to give it what it might want - like letting it outside

so I use time out so if it does the wrong thing the only thing it will get is time out in a cage that is boring

so why do ppl tell me I am a monster for that? the alternative is that I allow my cat to ruin my $5000-00 lounge suite

the do gooders have gone crazy I swear

even the punishments we mete out to prisoners are too harsh according to them - if we did close the prisoners off from contact with visitors so many drugs and such would never ever be smuggled into jails and wouldnt the prisoners come out drug free and better able to go straight?

I say there is need for punishments in all these dealings we have with people and animals and so long as it is reasonable and well thought out and not excessively cruel [such as 50 lashes. or stoning to death] then it should be ok to punish. I say with smacking - not more than 3 smacks on the bottom