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Obamacare ruled unconstitutional

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posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by maybereal11
 


Financial success, especially in the form of getting paid millions just to talk and share opinions does equal intelligence. They seized the opportunity and as a result are reaping the benefits of their hard work.

Morals are subjective, what you deem moral others do not and vice versa.

I would also add money does in fact play a large part in happiness.

Who do you think is happier....the wealthy taking an island hopping vacation, or the janitor working paycheck to paycheck wondering if he will be able to afford his electric bill? The stress that situation adds prevents a certain level of happiness.
edit on 13-12-2010 by BigTimeCheater because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by ErEhWoN
reply to post by this_is_who_we_are
 


Does this mean I can cancel my useless auto insurance? I don't want it, don't need it. But the Govt steadily keeps telling me I have to have it.

Did this judge set precedent to set me free from insurance! YAY!! F the insurance companies!!!


I agree. I think anyone should be able to opt out of having health insurance. First, sign a written pledge that you will carry with you at all times that demands no one treat you medically for a burst appendix, car accident, cancer...whatever, unless you pay them first in advance, and if you for some reason get treatment anyways...let's say you were knocked unconscience by a hit and run motorist and couldn't let the EMTs know your plan...you will repay them in 30 days or they can sieze your home, car etc. to pay the bills.

Great idea....drop that insurance that you "don't want" and "don't need"...just be fair and take steps to insure that we aren't paying for your decision through our tax-dollars. Go for it!!



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by maybereal11
 


You do realize there was a time, where you paid cash for medical services. You do know that don't you?



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by BigTimeCheater
 


Still disagree....Beck and Limbaugh?...Opportunistic? yes, Right place and time? yes...Willing to say things that they might not believe themselves for the sake of ratings...stir up controversy etc (Moraly challenged)...yes...Brilliant? Nope.

And just as a sidenote the man who holds the world record as having the highest IQ works as a bouncer at a bar. (Chris Langan)

Intelligence does not equal Financial Success.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by BigTimeCheater
reply to post by maybereal11
 


I would also add money does in fact play a large part in happiness.

Who do you think is happier....the wealthy taking an island hopping vacation, or the janitor working paycheck to paycheck wondering if he will be able to afford his electric bill? The stress that situation adds prevents a certain level of happiness.
edit on 13-12-2010 by BigTimeCheater because: (no reason given)


Your example took two extremes.

Money plays a role in happiness only in providing bare essentials.

There is a ?spiritual? muscle in all of us that requires struggle and work to survive in this world...and absent that need to work hard...that part of us atrophies and fosters a deep imbalance. Time off, vacations, security...those things are great and play a role in happiness, but those folks who never had to work a day in thier lives? I haven't met one yet that wasn't seriously efed up when you scratch the surface...and I have met many, many new and second generation "money" folks....drugs, booze, infidelity, mental illness etc. ... not a whole lot of happy.

Take an honest man with a family busting his ass and providing as best he can with a home full of love ...it doesn't get any better than that.

Just my opinion. I am sure there are exceptions to the rule, but that has been generally my experience.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by BigTimeCheater
reply to post by maybereal11
 


Beck and Limbaugh are hardly dumb. They figured a way to make millions simply by talking.

Obviously you arent making that kind of money, so who is the truly dumb one?



Well that explains a lot.

You could of saved me a whole lot of time if you just came out and said you look up to Beck and Limbaugh.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by Whereweheaded
reply to post by maybereal11
 


You do realize there was a time, where you paid cash for medical services. You do know that don't you?


You do realize how the first "insurance company" started and when? I'll give you a hint...it was Blue Cross/Blue Shield.

It cost 6 dollars a year in 1939......that is $75 dollars in todays money....a year.

There seems to be some disconnect here...

(a) believing that you will never need medical care that exceeds your cash on hand.
(b) What medical care actually costs these days...

I will give you a hint...my wife had an allergic reaction recently and her entire face ballooned up and her breathing changed.
3 hours in the ER...half hour in the ambulance...
Ambulance ride was around $650, the ER visit around 4.5k...so over 5k all in for 3.5 hours and a Prednisone shot.

That was just a one-off alergic reaction. First time it ever happened to her.

The unexpected happens and if you carry around 5k in your pocket just in case...then you are more fortunate than I and I am not sure how to discuss the matter with you.

I paid the bill BTW...that is the way it works.




edit on 13-12-2010 by maybereal11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 05:44 PM
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At this point...reading some of these responses I am getting the distinct feeling I am debating with teens or at least some very young folks.

The idea that no one needs insurance and that medical expenses can be paid out of pocket easily speaks to folks that are either BSing or are just young enough to be ignorant of reality.

I am going to leave this thread to those folks.

Later.
edit on 13-12-2010 by maybereal11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 05:50 PM
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reply to post by maybereal11
 


You wrote: "A wise choice leaving the military...following orders is a prequisite. Odd that you would talk about vet bashers, when you seem to be bashing military service in your post.

My brother is Afghanistan with the Cavalry ...before that Iraq...so you can save the "liberal vet basher" BS for someone else.

As for the rest of your post I'll be frank...It's tired and it's boring...I don't care.
It is your opinion and a rant absent any intelligable thought...I hear better constructed critisizms from Beck or Limbaugh and they are dumb people. Obama is a communist yada, yada. I have no interest in BS.
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Breakdown: "Odd that you would talk about vet bashers, when you seem to be bashing military service in your post".
"seem to be"? Your words...not mine. Either I am or am not "vet bashing". You need to be committed to your statements.
You like putting people on the defensive. This is where you made your mistake. Being my own man, making my own decisions, is not "vet bashing".

I said "I left the military do to the fact that I shall not have any one telling me what to do, when to do it or how to do it. (Robert Reich Clinton admin: "we need to tell the American public what to do because they are too stupid to know how") There are those of us that are "Our Own Man". We rely on our own selves and we take offense to those that think it is their job to tell us how to live. IE (Communism) The word I have chosen is called "Freedom".

This means you are not writing what was said by me, you are trying to put words in my mouth(spin) that I never spoke. This is a common practice for the liberal left. Gee.... you really got me on that one. I'm shocked!
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Next:
Since you are posting at this site, I have to assume that you know how to read in the English language. There is no "vet bashing" listed in my post. Of course you are using that as a ploy to try and put me on the defensive.
My words are "I shall not have anyone telling me what to do". As you are the no "BS listening", "simple minded", "word twisting" "lying liberal fool", it is easy to understand why you want everybody to pay the bills you created.

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Next:
Time for the spelling check of the liberal genius "maybereal11". Had it not been for his constant supervision, we would all have collapsed and died..
(prequisite is spelled " prerequisite") (intelligable is spelled " intelligible") (critisizms is spelled " criticisms")
Of course you know that and were just "testing" me to see if I knew that. Right? Right! What a genius! I know I'm impressed!
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Next:
Speaking of "tired and boring", "It takes one to know one". So where does that leave you? Right!
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Next:
Its good to know that your brother is serving this Nation by putting it all on the line. We are all proud of him. Did you serve in the same way? I did (1972-1976). Who is bashing the "vet" now??? HHHHMMM?????
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Next:
Stating that "you don't care" shows "apathy". This raises the question: "Why post at all if you don't care"? You posted to be heard and perhaps make your point of view clear. Perhaps there is a "darker" message inside of you that is trying to come out! Yeah......right. Its referred to as "stupidity".
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Next:
Its always easy to talk about people on the net, phone or by US mail. How are you when they are standing right in front of you? Yeah......any how , Obama "Healthscare" really stinks, like so many other things coming from the bottom of a swamp. You would know about that too....right? Had to put that one in so as to stay "on Topic". Moderators and all that.
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Next: you said I made a "wise choice". That is the only thing in your post that made any sense. So...congratulations! One out of eight isn't bad.....even for a liberal like you.
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OK moderators, it time to tell me that I am a "bad boy", that I am "abrasive" and that I need to "cool down".
It wouldn't be right with me setting one of your own on fire like that. Remember, he fired the first shot....not me.

Scoutsniper



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 05:53 PM
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There is a reason why the mandate to purchase health insurance is in the bill. The reason is that if everybody buys it, the risk pool becomes greater and the cost for each individual goes down. Japan and some other countries have a similar system and it works well for them.

If people are not required by law to have health insurance, many will use the hospitals and emergency rooms without paying for them, just as they do now, and the local, state and federal governments as well as the hospitals and the patients who do pay for their care will get stuck with the bills. In short, we'll all end up paying for the uninsured one way or another as we do now.

I don't like having to pay a private insurance company, but I do now anyway, and I am expecting to see the cost of my premiums going down when this bill is in full effect.

It seems, at first glance, outrageous that one would be required by law to purchase something, but some deeper analysis shows there is a legitimate rationale for the provision. Many people just pop off at first glance and don't think any further on a lot of issues.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 06:18 PM
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Tort reform could go a ways to reducing health care costs. It won't fix it, but it's a start.

Every other commercial on television these days is some form of the following:

"Did you crap your pants in public after taking Medication X?"

*cue the emotional music*

"Medication X is known to cause loss of sphincter integrity, and may lead to pants crapping and soiled underwear. You may be entitled to financial compensation. Call the law offices of Smuckatelli and Johnson right away."

I never in my life remember seeing so many damn lawsuit commercials on the tele as I do now.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher



Well that explains a lot.

You could of saved me a whole lot of time if you just came out and said you look up to Beck and Limbaugh.



You should probably stop reading what isnt there.

I never said I supported or agreed with either of them, I simply said they arent dumb. I dont agree with people like Rachel Maddow either, but I wouldnt say she is an idiot.

If you cant be an adult, perhaps you should just be quiet.
edit on 13-12-2010 by BigTimeCheater because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 06:40 PM
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Cool. I do think that an individual mandate is ridiculous. It's wholly different from a requirement to have insurance to drive a car. Last time I checked, it was a privilege to drive a car and a right to live. In any case, open up the state borders and let the market take care of it. It works well for other things, it may work well for this. I don't know if it will or not, but I think that we should at least try it before we overhaul our entire system.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by gnosticquasar
Cool. I do think that an individual mandate is ridiculous. It's wholly different from a requirement to have insurance to drive a car. Last time I checked, it was a privilege to drive a car and a right to live. In any case, open up the state borders and let the market take care of it. It works well for other things, it may work well for this. I don't know if it will or not, but I think that we should at least try it before we overhaul our entire system.


The problem is you have no right to have your healthcare subsidized by the taxpayers.

Healthcare is an individuals responsibility.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 07:59 PM
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Har Har Har....I remember predicting this in a past lifetime. Looks like the beginning of the end for Obamacare. It feels so good to be vindicated.



posted on Dec, 14 2010 @ 12:05 AM
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This thread makes me proud to be a Canadian.

I've read through this and it's making my head numb. What 'product' is it that you're forced to buy? Are you speaking of healthcare? You do all realize that you're paying government taxes to fund government programs right, like hundreds of billions for war and such? You do realize that with the cooperation of everyone, you would have a strong healthcare that would also be beneficial to the economy and available to whoever needs it right? Do you really not care at all for all the people that can't afford health care? What if it were you that lost his job, all benefits and would see you or your family fall ill and not be able to do anything about it?

We have a solid healthcare system which doesn't only serve the wealthy, it doesn't prioritize the elite, it's based on who needs what now and not who can spend the most. It should be illegal to be able to bribe your way and cut into line because of who you are or how much money you're willing to give.

Healthcare based on greed? That certainly cannot be healthy.

That's just my opinion of what I read so far and perhaps I misunderstood a lot of what's going on. If so, I'd much appreciate an explanation. This isn't car insurance, if you get in an accident; it's still just a car. The same cannot be said for your health and the health of the citizens of your country.



posted on Dec, 14 2010 @ 07:16 AM
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The health care system is broken.

The main problem is that far too many people are living past the age of productivity. This is the portion of a human life where a great deal of money can be spent to keep a person alive for a few years.

No one wants to hear this, but how much money could be saved if no one received health care after the age of 45?

Why 45? Most humans are on the downhill slide after that age, like it or not.
If anyone wants to spend their own hard-earned money on health care after age 45, fine.

I understand how everyone will moan and cry about Grandma needing a pacemaker, but if Grandma is that important to you, why not reach into your own pocket and pay for it? A lot of people would rather have their wide-screen plasma TV than Grandma with a working ticker.



posted on Dec, 14 2010 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by butcherguy
The health care system is broken.

The main problem is that far too many people are living past the age of productivity. This is the portion of a human life where a great deal of money can be spent to keep a person alive for a few years.

No one wants to hear this, but how much money could be saved if no one received health care after the age of 45?

Why 45? Most humans are on the downhill slide after that age, like it or not.
If anyone wants to spend their own hard-earned money on health care after age 45, fine.

I understand how everyone will moan and cry about Grandma needing a pacemaker, but if Grandma is that important to you, why not reach into your own pocket and pay for it? A lot of people would rather have their wide-screen plasma TV than Grandma with a working ticker.


Seriously???

REALITY DISCONNECT...I still think this thread is populated with Teens...

Average cost of a pacemaker? $35,000 to $45,000
Cost of the Surgery? $50,000 to $60,000

$85,000 - $105,000

How much does a flat screen TV Cost?

And as far as the whole suggestion that folks should die quickly once thier "productive years" are behind them?

Your definition of "productive" needs work.

One of the many principle advantages of "civilization" is caring for the elderly whose physical productive years are behind them.

Find the most "primitive" tribe in the most remote jungle...and you will find them caring for and honoring their elders. It is not only moral...but it has profound Educational/Informational/knowledge/Wisdom value to a tribe or an entire civilization...and even the most primitive of societies understand this.

The elderly in a tribe are the expert makers of weapons...the ones that have a near supernatural understanding of the Jungle...it's plants, animals, medicines...they carry the lessons and wisdom of past generations...they teach the new generations.



posted on Dec, 14 2010 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by maybereal11
 
I said that you wouldn't want to hear it!

I am over the self-imposed 45 year age limit.

You may need a little polishing on your connection to reality.

You will die. Cry, scream, whine and struggle for that last breath of air....

in the end, you will find that thing other than an unrequested birth that gives us all commonality.... your inevitable death.

As far as your talk about the big screen TVs, I have known elderly people wasting away in nursing homes that could have had much better care from their well to do children and grandchildren. Are you that shallow that you don't get that point? I didn't say that a pacemaker was the monetary equivalent to a big screen TV.

Ever hear of a movie titled 'Soylent Green' or are you the one that's too young?

One more question for you.You provide your lovely example of some lost Amazon tribes, how many of them have to pay for grandmas pacemaker? Do they have a lot of MRI machines to buy and maintain at their hospitals? Duh.... a lot easier to care for the elders of the tribe when it involves feeding and clothing them.

I am talking about Obamacare being broken, it is overloaded with people that formerly would have died much sooner than they do now...... that is reality.

edit on 14-12-2010 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2010 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


I do hope you're not serious.

Ok, let's say I do want to hear it and I'll argue this from an objective point of view.

At 45 years old you're bringing in way more money than you've ever had during you're entire life. You're career is at it's peek and you're spending tons of your house, two cars and already saving so your kids can go to college, not to mention holidays, vacations and all that. Basically, these are the people that are the lifeline of the economy, it's certainly not the kids in school, not the young adults borrowing money from the banks to attend college, it's not when they're finally done college and start at base salaries nor is it the people that are retired.

So let's say someone does get surgery and it costs them 50,000$ so what? That'll be reinvested every year into the economy.

From a Subjective perspective;

I'd much rather have my grand mother alive right now, she's in a home and she's worth a lot more than a flat screen TV, she's recently had meningitis and it's hard but we're there to support her, she raised her kids, she raised us and deserves the best care that we can provide for her because she deserves it, she deserves to live and be with us. You're delusional if you seriously claim that we'd want her dead. Even moreso if you mention Soylent Green with seriousness.



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