Please explain Freemason, are they exactly bad? Read Story

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by truseekr1972
No Mason here would dispute such a theory. But the actions of those few individuals aren't Masonic actions, and thus can't tarnish the fraternity as a whole.

The actions and ideals of those men can tarnish...thats what you have to understand. These types of men should be sought out and removed from the brotherhood but are too powerful, too high and because of their ranking or status other members will follow, cover-up their actions.

Originally posted by truseekr1972
Thats what Im trying to say JN...I dont want to jump on the "all masons are evil" bandwagon at all...I just dont believe that. But there is a group who are bonded by the brotherhood of Masonry that have a hiden agenda and are some powerful men.

And I'm just saying you can take Masonry out of the equation altogether, because not all of the powerful men with hidden agendas who are ruling the world are Masons. They're bonded because they're elite, powerful men with hidden agendas. That's all they need to bond them. So why even mention Masons at all?

Originally posted by IndianBones
I know that no one speaks for Freemasonry as a whole, but I wanted to ask any Freemasons here what they make of these quotes and the ancient mysteries.

"Freemasonry is modeled on the plan of the Ancient Mysteries, with their glyphics and allegories, and this is no mere coincidence; the parallels are too closely drawn." - J. D. Buck, Mystic Masonry or the Symbols of Freemasonry and the Greater Mysteries of Antiquity, Intro

"Masonry, successor of the Mysteries, still follows the ancient manner of teaching." - Albert Pike, Morals & Dogma, Pg. 22

I believe its that one message from the worlds doctrines found in such things as Babylonian, Egyptian, and Greco-Roman religion, astrology, alchemy, dualism, neoplatonism, gnosticism, hermeticism, rosicrucianism, myth & magick, and religious and philosophical speculations from all over the world, that says man is or will become the master of his fate and soveriegn over his faculties through initiation.

“Man is a god in the making. And as the mystic myths of Egypt, on the potter's wheel, he is being molded. When his light shines out to lift and preserve all things, he receives the triple crown of godhood.”
- Manly P. Hall, The Lost Keys of Freemasonry, p. 92

"He begins his Masonic career as the natural man; he ends it by becoming through its discipline, a regenerated man... This the evolution of man into superman—was always the purpose of the ancient Mysteries, and the real purpose of modern Masonry is, not the social and charitable purposes to which so much attention is paid, but the expediting of the spiritual evolution of those who aspire to perfect their own nature and transform it into a more god-like quality. And this is a definite science, a royal art, which it is possible for each of us to put into practice; whilst to join the Craft for any other purpose than to study and pursue this science is to misunderstand its meaning." - W. L. Wilmhurst, The Meaning of Masonry, Pg.46-47

I'm not saying most people join Freemasonry because they're trying to become gods, but I'm interested in knowing what in Freemasonry gave you the desire to join? To become a better person and be more spiritually enlightened? Then I'd ask, why couldn't you do that outside the organization? What made you believe Freemasonry was the right choice?

edit on 14-12-2010 by IndianBones because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-12-2010 by IndianBones because: mispelled something

There are some who still practice the ancient art that is found in some forms of masonry. There are millions of people who are not masons, but practice these arts. They beleive that they are gods. If you look into the teaching of the 5 percenters, or the nation of Gods & Earths, Some of their teachings are similar to masonry, but there is a millions times more knowledge. they have 360 degrees compared to masonic 33. They can stem there faith from the ancient Kemetic religion. Divinity was of man. God made man in his image to learn to be like him, to love like him, thats how you become God-Like.

Originally posted by truseekr1972
The actions and ideals of those men can tarnish...thats what you have to understand. These types of men should be sought out and removed from the brotherhood but are too powerful, too high and because of their ranking or status other members will follow, cover-up their actions.

And now you get into conspiracy theory territory, because you can't name any names. The corrupt Masons who are discovered, are tried & prosecuted in a court of law, in addition to facing Masonic charges if appropriate.

You're not the RIAA or the MPAA... If you want to charge someone with a crime, you have to name names, you have to give dates of their crimes, you have to actually provide evidence that they've done something. Nameless, faceless "high power Masons" aren't committing crimes. Individuals are. And they've got names. Name them, and we'll get somewhere, otherwise, such discussion are fruitless.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by truseekr1972
They're bonded because they're elite, powerful men with hidden agendas. That's all they need to bond them. So why even mention Masons at all?

Because in my situation right now, that is how they are bonded. They have admitted it.

Originally posted by truseekr1972
Because in my situation right now, that is how they are bonded. They have admitted it.

And what, exactly, is your situation? The only thing you've posted on ATS is in this same thread, and all you've told us was about one friend's father who may have been a member of some as yet unidentified group, and possibly a different (or same) friend's brother being invited to join a lodge. You still haven't posted any photos of the plaque or the zippo, which I'm sure we'd all love to see.

Originally posted by iAnjo
My father was thinking of becoming one. I only recently found this out while he was talking to his old friend. Now he's making a joke out of it. A freemason. Aren't they negotiated with the illuminati and NWO?

Please help me, I'm very dissapointed.

There is nothing wrong with us Freemasons, do not believe anything you read in a book or the internet I would advise you to join and experience the lodge and lodge members for yourself before making a decision. That not only goes with Freemasonry that is with LIFE in general. Experience things for yourself.

reply to post by iSHRED


Just a theorist, I may actually join myself some day...there's a lodge right down the road. Actually, there's lodges everywhere. Also, they use similar symbols, although they claim they have totally different meanings. Illuminati pyramid is well, just a pyramid. The freemason pyramid and eye is supposed to represent the Holy Trinity and god's all-seeing eye...These may be BS claims, though.

I don't know how many threads we see with the same "you have to be invited", or "bloodline" comments. Neither are, nor have they ever been true. Every male in your family could have been a mason since the 1600's and if you do not "ASK" you will not be invited. Likewise, any man that has never ever ever had a mason in his family in any generation (unlikely) may join so long as they are not a criminal, of lawful age, and a few other requirements that may vary by state Grand Lodge. Anyone who tells you about bloodlines and needing an invite hasn't the slightest clue, in fact we are forbidden to ask anyone to join. I know so many people I would desperately like to ask, but I can't...the most I may ever say is "if you'd like to ever know more about masonry, all you have to do is ask" and that's probably pushing it. We MAY not recruit.

as to why so many Masons on these boards? Because quiet frankly people interested in conspiracies are often exactly the sort of people who are drawn to masonry...at least a CERTAIN type of conspiracy theorist. Some people seek truth in all things, they simply want to know what is what, but they also remain skeptics, and do not easily fly off on rumor or accusation. Such intellectually minded men are very much drawn to masonry, many many Masons get involved because of wanting to know more about it, curiosity, and even wondering about the so called conspiracies...I have had my best conspiracy discussion among masons to be sure. There's another kind of conspiracy theorist however, those which I like to simply call "Bat Guano Crazy" these are those who love to latch on a wild conspiracy, the wilder and less likely or more fantastical the better, they tend to be not so much intellectual as they are in need of something to "follow" the same people might become religious zealots in different circumstances, they do not question but rather take everything on faith....these guys may not like Masonry so much, and let's face it Masonry with it's secrecy and symbols makes an ideal target. Then there are vindictive bunch who usually are unhappy with their place in life and simply need a target to blame. Whether it's Masons, Bush, Obama, a race of people, a particular religion, they will find someone to be their nemesis to explain why they just can't seem to get what they want done in life......

ATS has a lot of the intellectual theorists, and thus many here are attracted to masonry. Many of us me included were interested in the conspiracies before becoming masons ourselves.

I will agree with one idea though, and that is the majority of masons really do not know what it is all about. Why? not because of some secret elitist group keeping it from them. Rather even among most masons, men tend to be lazy, they get their "cards" become master masons, and get bored, they don't research or read further or seek to grow.....getting your degrees is easy, understanding them.....that takes quite a bit of reading, study and work. It can not be parceled out, or given or kept from you, it is something each mason must work at.

Your given the plans in your degrees, but whether you bother to build it is up to you.

would you say you could gain power easier being a mason tho?
for example: I saw a video of the recording of one of Jay-z's songs (this aint about jay z) and the head of the record company, i dont remember his name, was there and it was showing around his house. He had a free mason hat in his house and a book of witchcraft on his coffee table. That leads me to believe he is involved in masonry and possibly other secret societies. It's perfectly logical that if this was true, he would promote a mason in the industry over someone who isnt a mason.

another example: in the military, it takes an act of congress to become a general. The general that i saw, was wearing an all gold class/fraternity ring. I got kinda close and tried to look at it, and it looked like it could be a square and compass on it (not positive though). I also have a colonel who's been in nearly 40 years. So if a majority of congress were free masons, they would pick fellow masons to be generals/admirals in the military.

Examples like these could be on all areas and no one would know because it's only spoken about in private lodges, during meetings when all you lower masons are not present. So you think nothing is going on with freemasonry, but do you REALLY know?

In his case I believe he is a Prince Hall Mason, they are extremely selective, and some argue rather elitist. In their defense I think they have had to be extremely selective in order to protect their values, and virtues. That said because of this there probably is a little more helping other PH masons out career wise then you would find in regular masonry, if only because they stay a much smaller group. We could have a whole separate discussion on PH masonry vs regular masonry. Personally I hope for a day when the two will see and accept each other in all states as has been started in some. However many Grand lodges still consider PH masonry irregular and therefore clandestine, due to them willingly turning in their Charter to the grand Lodge of England.

As for Military, or any Corporation. Having friends and "pull" in ANY organization will help your career. Whether it's a brother from your lodge keeping you in mind, a member of your church, a high school classmate, someone from your Gym, or college Greek Frat or Sorority. Man is a social animal, fair or not we tend to think of people we have a connection to first when openings happen. That just IS. Old advise, "it's who you know that gets you there, and what you know that keeps you there." Sorry if that bursts a bubble, but if masonry never existed it would still be that way. At least masons are masons by common virtues, and a common oath to live by a stricter set of morals then other groups. I am not a PH mason, but I'd rather work for someone who got their job through that connection then someone who got it say for being on the HS wrestling team with the hiring person. At least I know the quality of such a person’s moral convictions, likewise with the Church connections. As for masons in Congress....very small minority are masons today, there was a time when 80% of all congressmen were masons say in the 1930's, so if masons only promote masons then it didn't work out to well because there's hardly any there today. However that congress was full of much more trustworthy and honorable men then the self absorbed immoral leaders we have today. I wish they were mostly masons....but that is unlikely to be again, as masonry is but a small shadow of its formal size in the early 1900's. I have heard certain Presidents required their security details to be made up of only masons, including a certain Catholic president we all know, and is generally NOT known to have been a mason them self. Why then did they make that request? I don't know....likely again something about knowing masons to have certain common virtues, moral values, and to be tactful.

If there is still an Illuminati, and i seriously doubt there is that calls itself by THAT name. Masons would be it's enemy, as we in general stand for the exact opposite of elitism. Masonry promotes equality, fair dealings with all, both masons and non-masons. Masonry has been attacked by every elitist group that sought to take over and rule through fascism such as the Nazi's who filled concentrations camps with Masons as quickly as Jews, and Gypsies. Communists too attacked masons, tens of thousands and more masons lost their lives to Hitler and Stalin. If there is an Illuminati then masons would not be on their friends list either. Masonry will always be through its moral convictions and faith in God at odds with such groups who seek totalitarian control. It will always choose to defend the common man from those that would blot out God's light, compassion, love, and mankind’s history and recorded knowledge.

Originally posted by iAnjo
My father was thinking of becoming one. I only recently found this out while he was talking to his old friend. Now he's making a joke out of it. A freemason. Aren't they negotiated with the illuminati and NWO?

Please help me, I'm very dissapointed.

The Bavarian Illuminati infiltrated Freemasonry and Illuminati influence was never santized.

Their model for an ideal society is very much in line with the NWO. Their penchant for religious tolerance is actually a step towards creating a universal religion.

The French Revolution was inspired by Freemasonry. To this day, France's national motto is "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity."

Originally posted by iSHRED
...It's perfectly logical that if this was true, he would promote a mason in the industry over someone who isnt a mason...

...So if a majority of congress were free masons, they would pick fellow masons to be generals/admirals in the military...

Only a fool would hire someone to do a job for them who wasn't qualified to, or capable of, actually getting the job done.

My girlfriends father is a Mason, and he's a spot on, well educated bloke. In fact I could honestly say there isn't a bad bone in his body! After getting to know him, I think a lot of the Mason stuff people spout is just speculation and lack of understanding.

reply to post by iSHRED

Freemasonry doesn't make it easier to gain power.

I may be wrong, but Jay Z may be a Mason. I can't remember. There are a few entertainers that are and I'm guessing he is a Prince Hall Freemason.

Curious question, what kind of hat was it?

You could apply this 'upper hand' scenario with any group or organization. Just having friends in certain places cannot hurt your chances in attaining goals that involve that organization. Should one use it?

Here's something funny though, most of the Officers and senior NCOs I'm in the military with, I outrank in the Masons. Now, lets assume this Congressional upperhand exists. You need to look at who is on the Armed Services Committees. Now take out the women members and find out who is actually a Mason; you may find maybe one. But that is a huge maybe. Now you're also assuming there a huge abundance of Masons in the military up for promotion that is that political you know someone in Congress and that specific person is on the Armed Services Committee and is indeed a Mason. Now you must also assume that this mythical Mason on the Armed Services Committee who is friends or associated with Mason that is up for a Congressional approved military promotion is going to throw aside the tenets and lessons of Freemasonry to pick someone less qualified than another. Can I say 100% that it wouldn't happen?

reply to post by JoshNorton

Exactly.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by truseekr1972
Because in my situation right now, that is how they are bonded. They have admitted it.

And what, exactly, is your situation? The only thing you've posted on ATS is in this same thread, and all you've told us was about one friend's father who may have been a member of some as yet unidentified group, and possibly a different (or same) friend's brother being invited to join a lodge. You still haven't posted any photos of the plaque or the zippo, which I'm sure we'd all love to see.

edit on 2010.12.20 by JoshNorton because: (no reason given)

Send PM so I can send back...thanks

Does anyone know if this quote from Albert Pike is valid? I got it off of; www.masonicpaedia.org...

"What is worth knowing in Masonry is never openly taught. The symbols are displayed, but they are mute. It is by hints only and these the least noticeable and apparently insignificant, that the Initiate is put upon the track of the hidden secret. It was never intended that the masses of Masons should know the meaning of the Blue Lodge Degrees and no pains were spared to conceal the fact."

reply to post by IndianBones


I've never read Pike's stuff, but I had similar thoughts when I first started, and I still do. Just passing through the 3 degrees really does very little to enlighten someone, but the Lodge and the Monitor are filled with symbols and allegories and everything we do and say is worded in such a way that it hints to more and more. At the beginning of the 2nd part of the 3rd Degree, the WM says something along the lines that the initiate is not yet fully aware of all the secrets and may never be.

I do think that there is much, much more to be learned in Masonry than just becoming a Master Mason and attending business meetings. The link I provided earlier to the Floorwork is a prime example. 95% of Masons out there have no idea that the Lodge is designed around Celestial Objects and patterns, and they don't know why we take the 1, 2, and 3 circumnavigations during degree work.

Although I usually discount quotes from Pike, I think this one may be accurate.

Originally posted by IndianBones
Does anyone know if this quote from Albert Pike is valid? I got it off of; www.masonicpaedia.org...

"What is worth knowing in Masonry is never openly taught. The symbols are displayed, but they are mute. It is by hints only and these the least noticeable and apparently insignificant, that the Initiate is put upon the track of the hidden secret. It was never intended that the masses of Masons should know the meaning of the Blue Lodge Degrees and no pains were spared to conceal the fact."

That appears to be a slight misquote... From Pike's Legenda, p 52

What is most worth knowing in Masonry is never very openly taught. The symbols are displayed, but they are mute. It is by hints only, and those the least noticeable and apparently insignificant, that the Initiate is put upon the track of the hidden secret. A word seemingly used at random, and as it were by chance, long escapes notice and at last attracts the attention of some inquiring mind, and gives the clue that leads to new discoveries.

Google Books doesn't have page 54, but the bit about "no pains spared" does not follow directly after, as it does in the quote you're citing.

Reading more of that chapter of Legenda, it seems Pike's opinion is that NO Mason knows what all the symbols mean. The true meanings were lost hundreds, if not thousands of years ago.

It has long since become evident to us... that the true secrets and Kabalistic meanings of Masonry are unknown to itself, having been concealed under so many veils as to have become in part undiscoverable; and that the ordinary explanations of its symbols have merely been adopted to mislead the multitude of initiates, the knowledge of the esoteric meaning having been confined to a few, who long since died leaving no successors.