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Question about Old Test. v/s New Test. God

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posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 08:02 AM
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This post is a serious question for those who believe in God. This is not intended to be a thread to question Faith in God, nor to point out different theories of religion. This post is intended for intelligent and constructive discussion between Christians, not for those who are not Christians to dump their agenda in.

Mods, I ask that you please help keep it clean on that perspective.

Question:

When reading the Old Testament we see a fearful and wrathful God. A God that inflicts horrible plagues and punishments on His people when they disobey - albeit after MANY please for them to repent.

In the New Testament we see a God that is loving and merciful who only wishes to wash his people - in fact, ALL people in Grace and forgiveness. This God teaches (through Christ) that we should respect all life as part of his creation and do to others as we would have done to us.

I don't pretend that I can know the mind of God, but I have a hard time reconciling a God that today tells us to always respect and love life, to always show mercy and Grace, to always show love instead of malice - with a God that showed such a disregard for human life and would command His people to commit horrendous acts of violence that would scar them.

Again - I know his will is perfect and his plan is perfect, but why the stark difference? Why would God ask people to do things that obviously would cause them emotional and pharmacological scars (i.e. kill every living thing in a village/town)?

Why does God show such a lack of value on human life (i.e. sending snakes through the people and killing thousands in minutes) - but then ask us to show the opposite?

Christ seems to almost be in direct contrast with the God of Old Law?

Thoughts?




posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 08:11 AM
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well.. the god in the new testament shows how people's idea of god has changed. the old testament god was wrathful - thats because life was much harsher then. then, the people saw things like mercy and grace. and they realized that god was more forgiving than they previously imagined. now we like to believe that god is forgiving and kind. again, this reflects what we WANT from our god.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 08:26 AM
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As an atheist, I will try to stop myself before it becomes an attack on faith. As a former christian, I can tell you that there never was any particular answer given to me by anyone of any denomination that didn't seem as if it were an aversion to the question, and that didn't instruct me to just believe anyway because I would never understand the mind of god.
If you're looking for a really good answer, I'm sure some of the more theological types on here will be more than happy to lead you down the paths that various decrees and speculations in the past have postulated.

From a neutral standpoint, they appear to be two entirely different entities. One preaching to love and forgive, to promote peace and harmony with the other demanding meticulous blood sacrifices, the slaughter of innocents and the capture of slaves. A person exhibiting those same symptoms today would be classified as "bi-polar" at best.

On another note, and I'll stop with this as I promised that I would - perhaps the gargantuan release of billions of years of pent-up spiritual semen into the teenage virgin was all it took to mellow the ol' fellow out? I know it IS a great stress reliever, although the virgin I would choose would be 18+.
edit on 13-12-2010 by sykickvision because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-12-2010 by sykickvision because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 08:43 AM
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In my opinion the OT god is not the All-father and not the origin of the Holy spirit. Jesus had nothing to do with this 'god', in fact, this 'god' is probably the reason why the Father had to provide us with a saviour in the first place.

The OT was a record written by someone, of the goings on surrounding this 'god'. This 'god' clearly chose some people to carry out his plans of world domination and in order for them to be effective, they needed to be under control - hence the rigid laws. There will be no record of a great deal of what was said between this 'god' and his priests, but it's clear from what we can read, that using money as a means of controlling the world was a key to the plan.

Judaism was a planned religion as was Islam, but Christianity was a damage limitation exercise conducted by TPTB in order to minimise the effectiveness of the teachings of the saviour. If they could have erased Jesus from the history books all together, they most certainly would have done, instead they seized control of his teachings and now have a vast majority of his 'followers' under their influence. They simply tried to make out he was one of them. 12 disciples? Died at 33? Come on!

He wasn't born in Bethlehem and I don't believe he recieved the Holy spirit until he was thirty years old.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 08:43 AM
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reply to post by gncnew
 
The reason you see them as different is because they are. God is what his name says,he is God. Jesus is the messiah in the new testement. They have entirely different roles. Jesus was sent to bring man closer to God. The slaughter that happened in the Old Testement was because the people were evil. If there was even one good person to be saved God would not have ordered the destruction of all of them.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 08:50 AM
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reply to post by gncnew
 


The God of the old testament isn't actually God the Father of Jesus Christ. Well, in some parts he is. That is the conspiracy with the bible; There is reference to more than one God or Lord, if you will. The other God who comes off as cruel, IMO, is Satan, posing as the true God. Once Adam and Eve left the garden, God doesn't interfere much with the people of the earth, only a select few. Since Satan is techinically a God himself, it only makes sense for the people of that time to be fooled into thinking he is their God, being that he dwells on earth. Satan is the master of disguise and his main purpose is to ruin everything good and make people go against the true Gods will. My theory, in a nutshell, is that God and Satan made a wager to see how many souls each could get on their sides. Which is why we people are all free-thinkers with a choice to do good or evil.

Someone wrote a post about this idea and made some excellent points. I have to dig for it, but once I find it I'll post the link.
edit on 13-12-2010 by myeyeshavseen because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by hammerofthor
reply to post by gncnew
 
The reason you see them as different is because they are. God is what his name says,he is God. Jesus is the messiah in the new testement. They have entirely different roles. Jesus was sent to bring man closer to God. The slaughter that happened in the Old Testement was because the people were evil. If there was even one good person to be saved God would not have ordered the destruction of all of them.


But lets look at Genesis. Cain kills Able - God punishes Cain (and the rest of man) for this violence. In fact, "violence begets violence" comes from this very act.

Since Christ, God has not ordered the death of anyone. In fact, Christ even demonstrates this with the adulterous woman (let he without sin cast the first stone..).

Yet in Exodus God is willing to kill thousands of His people to prove a point... this is perfectly within his right as God. But when he then commands those people to kill all men, women, and children in a province as they take control of it - he's giving them counter intuitive commands.

1. Murder and Killing are sinful and have consequences
2. You must murder both innocent and guilty to fulfill my commands.

On one hand we have a God expressing the sanctity of his creation - on the other we have a God willing to let his creation defile itself on his command?



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 08:58 AM
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reply to post by gncnew
 


He was angry because of the disobedience of man and of unfaithfullness of man. Man did no good in His eyes. That's about my answer. It is his creation he experimented with. Wanting to do no harm to man but man must have an ear and be faithfull. I myself have this urge when they try to misunderstand me...

The way to God is yourself. Jesus the way to eternal life.
edit on 2010/12/13 by etherical waterwave because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 09:02 AM
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reply to post by gncnew
 

It's good that you're starting to question this stuff. It shows you have an open mind.

In my opinion, the best place to start if you are truly concerned with having this question seriously addressed, is the book "Answer to Job" by Carl Jung. It starts out recounting the Book of Job (in which Satan convinces God to test Job's faith by torturing him in every way imaginable) and trying to reconcile this with the idea of a loving God.

He eventually comes to the speculation that God wanted to become Man (in the New Testament) in part to save Himself from His own checkered past. Basically that God evolves with time, and learns, and learns things from His humans, and basically sent Jesus in part to atone for His misdeeds. Jung basically psychoanalyzes God. It's quite interesting, and quite a brave book to have written.


edit on 13-12-2010 by NewlyAwakened because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 09:02 AM
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In the OT.

The first brothers Kain and Abel, the the first sons of the first man alive.. One killed the other. I support, when they don't need eachother and are caring to eachother in such a way it musn't be a very bad making wars and such in the world. People didn't even care. They were very unfaithfull. He always needed to help.

With the gift of Jesus christ He made another new perspective for men, God had much to endure and still he offered us a Gift. I do not want to put him to torn. It is very difficult in a world where people are careless to be good to them. Do unto another as you want to be done to yourself. It works in such a way.

The bible is very declaring.
edit on 2010/12/13 by etherical waterwave because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 09:09 AM
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All the religions are control tools used by the annanuki, PTB, throughout the ages, and are coded, or conducted in a black and white checkerboard floor , negative positive duality as this school is. Most people are controlled, information comes out through gate keepers and for example, the bible, "old testament" was a series of plagerizations, from Sumar, surrounding areas and Egypt. In Canaan, for example El = Saturn. Saturn is also Osirisu. The trinity of Egypt is Isis, Ra, Osisus/Saturn. In Sumar Saturn is the black sun. Is Ra El/Israel.

You know all that talk about sun gods, well they didn't mean the sun, our sun, Light or the Family of Light. In the dualtiy, you can only guess what Saturn/Santa/Satan is all about.

The pope wears his saturn hat. Its xmass season and Saturn is all the talk and pictures are popping up on yahoo, etc.

The gestapo and Nazi's was the order of the Black Sun.

Please understand the system you're in.

The good news is that though this is a duality school, system, run by negatives for ages, and they are handled by off planet negatives, or Saturninsts, kind of a hellzone area, or at least there many negative channels/dimensions there, we are in a School. In a Duality School, learning Love.

The new testament is about the Family, and Love. Yeshua represents what it takes to truly leave this level of school or earth behind and graduate. Whether or not one sees him as literal or metaphorical, he stands for the F O L, Family of Light, and our way home.

Back to the white and black masonic checkerboard floor. You can google it and see that most of the leaders decoarate their halls with this, and the symbology is everywhere going right back to Solomon's Temple and the twin pillars of Boaz and Joachim, the duality.

As we purify our hearts, and turn to unconditional Love and turn our weakensses into strengths avoiding the traps, even the ones in the bible, the ones that are coded ot war, retaliation, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and truly set to do what Yehsua would do, and you don't have to go to any Church to do this, in fact their ceremonies are often coded to esoteric things, we are turning negatives into positives, and this entire system is like that.

Gravity is what holds this hologram lower level school together, its an interplay between light and dark, and as we overcome negative, light speaks to us, guides us, and we shine positive and love in this world. Then even reading the new testament, can cause messages to leap out at us, and even words of others, people. Light is in everything 50/50, even our bodies, and is Soul/Life/Intellect/Wisdom, interactive in real time. When we overcome this school by truly Love Love Love,and our weaknesses, we overcome this lower level. This is what is called ascnesion, though its not always in the body, most of the time, it happens when we leave, but some are reported to have leviatated.


The Family of Light, light as a feather, no guilt or shame to hold them down.

That is the job. God is not El.

There is an Infinite Family of Light, we are all apart of infinity and equal, your infinite potential is equal to mine. Infinity equalizes all, and its more akin to Fractals with a Family grouping. Ie. there is a Prime Creator, or Father/Mother and Family, but like an earth Family, where the parents are older, more mature and in a Higher Grade, than their small children, they are still all equal and have equal potential. That is what the Beyond is like.

When Jesus said, I and my Father are One and the Same, he was referring to his Higher Self. Perhaps also to his Father/Mother, who we are all Fractals of and yet the Infinite potential without are equal.

We're Family up there, or where is up there??? Infintiy has some hallmarks. Nonlocality is one of them! There is no greater, smaller, higher, lower, past, present or Future. Time is but a program in our .s and in this hollogrpahic universe, your mind is the dvd player. Its all energy waves. Energy = matter, and matter = energy.

The Infnity in a grain of sand cannot be measured and is infinite, so it is in a star. They are equal volumes of infinity.

Infinity equalizes us all.

We have to turn the pyramids upside down.

We also need to think of what Yeshua, a perfect example of Love and Family would do in this world, with regards to the homeless, the poor, wars, and even arguments in your Family. How would he or the Family handle things as grown ups. Without retaliation, arguments, retribution, fighting of any kind?

Pass the test here, turn all negatives into positives. If Santa is coded to Saturn and Saturn is coming to town, and the negatives are gearing up to open portals with sacrifices, lets turn it all around. Purify everythign, hand everything back to the people. Xmass is about Love/Peace and Family and even Santa to the athiests is about the spirit of giving to all the children. See the good in everything, bring forth the light in all, and overcome the dark squares.

We don't have to live fear based but can overcome this world and purify all their negative coding. Always, its the intent of our hearts that count the most.


edit on 13-12-2010 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 09:12 AM
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The OP has raised a great question. There have been books written about this topic by scholars. I am a Christian and I can definitely notice differences between how God acts in the OT and NT.

Having researched the topic a little, here is kind of what I've settled on. In the OT God is very ... determined, or fierce if you will, to protect the Jewish people and the bloodline that will eventually give birth to Jesus Christ. Protect it from what? I don't want to derail the thread so I'll just say to A) Keep the bloodline from being wiped off the earth and B) to keep it "pure".

Jump forward to the NT and Jesus Christ has come and died for our sins, so God can drop the role of protector of the blood line and step into the role of Savior/Redeemer of men.

Excellent post and question, I enjoy this topic very much.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by etherical waterwave
 

You do have to understand that the bible is only one book, and that many books were left out.
I disagree with religion, you have to take into account all sorts of angles and points of view.
I don't think christianity was ment to become a religion, it was made up for population control, not such a bad thing. Without religion people would of gone wild, but that is just controling the masses.
My view on god is that there is really only one god, one true divine source and we don;t need religion and differences, then people saw to make carvings of god, and names for god, so some carvings were different than others and god had different names, then some saw to make other gods, enligted alien beings.
To some god looks like an old man, to others like a woman, to some god is the creative force, one thing we are sure if god has a body no one knows how it looks and we all agree on that. The cross for example is the result of our duality, but people kiss the cross and think it has special powers, they kiss icons, people become saints.
I think we can all agree that picking sides and saying my religion is better than yours will not solve anything.

So what will it be, is it the god of nature, is it the old white man, is it mother nature as a more feminine god ?
Who is god ? I for one disagree with religions such as budism, very very dangeros for the self.


edit on 13-12-2010 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by myeyeshavseen
reply to post by gncnew
 


The God of the old testament isn't actually God the Father of Jesus Christ. Well, in some parts he is. That is the conspiracy with the bible; There is reference to more than one God or Lord, if you will. The other God who comes off as cruel, IMO, is Satan, posing as the true God. Once Adam and Eve left the garden, God doesn't interfere much with the people of the earth, only a select few. Since Satan is techinically a God himself, it only makes sense for the people of that time to be fooled into thinking he is their God, being that he dwells on earth. Satan is the master of disguise and his main purpose is to ruin everything good and make people go against the true Gods will. My theory, in a nutshell, is that God and Satan made a wager to see how many souls each could get on their sides. Which is why we people are all free-thinkers with a choice to do good or evil.

Someone wrote a post about this idea and made some excellent points. I have to dig for it, but once I find it I'll post the link.
edit on 13-12-2010 by myeyeshavseen because: (no reason given)


You can't believe in Christ without believing in the Old Test. God. Jesus refers and references Old Test. Law and the Father too often. He even gets pissed and kicks over tables in the Temple when he sees people defiling it with money changers and prostitutes.

I don't believe that there are two different God's represented. I think this is something about the nature of God that's eluding me/us.

I equate this to the story of Moses pleading with God for his people after he comes down the mountain and finds them worshiping idols. God then apparently decides NOT to kill them all, but commands Moses to kill all the offenders.

Ok - story makes sense, but there are specific parts of the bible that state God's will is perfect. If it's perfect, why does he allow himself to be swayed by Moses? If God's mind can't be changed, why are there stories of him changing his will based on the requests of His people?



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 09:17 AM
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Ok - story makes sense, but there are specific parts of the bible that state God's will is perfect. If it's perfect, why does he allow himself to be swayed by Moses? If God's mind can't be changed, why are there stories of him changing his will based on the requests of His people?

Mercy is the answer, if we can think then I presume god does the same ? for what we done the world should of ended milion of times over and over again. I take it the force is not a robot.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
reply to post by etherical waterwave
 

You do have to understand that the bible is only one book, and that many books were left out.

but also, many books were left in, and.. the bible are many books.


I disagree with religion, you have to take into account all sorts of angles and points of view.

This is so untrue!! Their is only one straight way in account.


I don't think christianity was ment to become a religion, it was made up for population control, not such a bad thing.

Christianity is an easy way to set your mind straight and to grow in light.


Without religion people would of gone wild, but that is just controling the masses;

In a way that is right!! No one has control on yourself in a bad way when you do as spirit tells you.


My view on god is that there is really only one god, one true divine source and we don;t need religion and differences, then people saw to make carvings of god, and names for god, so some carvings were different than others and god had different names, then some saw to make other gods, enligted alien beings.

We were all born because of one God.


To some god looks like an old man, to others like a woman, to some god is the creative force, one thing we are sure if god has a body no one knows how it looks and we all agree on that. The cross for example is the result of our duality, but people kiss the cross and think it has special powers, they kiss icons, people become saints.


The bible doesn't encourage these acts. It states not to use attributes for worship.


I think we can all agree that picking sides and saying my religion is better than yours will not solve anything.

So what will it be, is it the god of nature, is it the old white man, is it mother nature as a more feminine god ?
Who is god ? I for one disagree with religions such as budism, very very dangeros for the self.


edit on 13-12-2010 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)


I cannot respond any further.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 09:23 AM
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reply to post by gncnew
 




These words are a strong advice to act Good in the Eyes of God. To act as he wants us to for his way is right.




edit on 2010/12/13 by etherical waterwave because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 09:30 AM
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I have always thought that neither book relates to each other and that something is missing, something important.

Part of my reasoning lies in Palagianism.. and the allegation Pelagius levelled against Rome in not teaching the original message that Christ brought..

Given that these allegations of corruption where made against the likes of St Augustine and Jerome who in response to the allegations created the foundations of Christianity we know today.. Leaves me feeling that your answer could lie in Christs original message..

But since that seems to have been erased, I guess we will always wonder.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 09:31 AM
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after a few years of Bible reasearch...it's right in front of your eyes.....
in john it is given to us, the phrase that all love.....and an angel spoke saying "peace on Earth ....goodwill toward men"
this was after jesus was born
it doesn't mean men will have goodwill....this states the new results that God is now no longer at emnity with his created man...THE BATTLE WAS OVER....good news.... huh!!!
edit on 13-12-2010 by GBP/JPY because: THE WAR IS OVER



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 09:49 AM
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Pepsi78


To your question who God is I would like to say the one by whom all truth and justice is known, all knowledge, all wisdom and the one who is able to make miracles, the one whom is almighty!
edit on 2010/12/13 by etherical waterwave because: (no reason given)



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