Mormons Have World's Largest Database on Human Race: Why?

They were bored.

reply to post by Alethea


Very good read, thanks for posting it. And they are big into genealogy because they think they are descended from Israel.....and you know how big the Jews are into their past.

Wow, a lot of misinformation and assumptions on this thread that could have been easily avoided with a little research. Although I do not attend church anymore, nor have I for some time, I was raised LDS and only stopped going in my early 20's (I'm 30 now). There is nothing evil or conspiracy related about a vault of records that are public anyway if you take the time to research yourself.

I will attempt to clarify some falsities I've read on here... here we go...

1.) Doctrine in a nutshell; before we were spirits we were "intelligences" existing without any perceivable state. God "organized" the intelligences and gave them spirit bodies to inhabit, but we were still not as He (man of flesh and blood) (also I'd like to quote for further clarification, "as man is, God once was, and as God is, man my become"). For us to receive our physical bodies a plan was developed to give us physical experience here in this world, but that it would require us to be given free will to choose right from wrong, and our choices could keep us from returning to His presence. One of his first spiritual children was Satan and he had great influence among the spirits, however he disagreed with God's plan and wanted everyone to be forced to do good so that all could return. This plan however was a paradigm and could not allow us the experience necessary. Satan rebelled and took 1/3 of the spirits in war in heaven in which they were all eventually cast out. After we die we await the second coming in a spirit world (we cannot regain our physical bodies until Christ's resurrection). In this spirit world there is a spirit paradise for those who accepted Christ, and a spirit prison for those who rejected him (but who are still taught his principles and given opportunities to accept him). After the resurrection of Christ we will go to one of 3 worlds as mentioned already in previous posts so I won't elaborate (also there's the outer darkness as mentioned).
As per the baptisms for the dead, they are exactly as other LDS members have posted on here. I've participated in them myself. A member cannot perform these until the age of 12, and let me tell you I would NOT have been OK with some old guy touching my genitals at age 12. That is just ridiculous. It is an ordinance of baptism by immersion by proxy for the deceased. If you don't believe in it it shouldn't bother you, they are just simply using your relative's name in a prayer. If it does bother you than maybe you believe more than you admit? And yes, while they wait in the spirit world they are given the choice to accept the baptism or not. I think it pretty selfish to deny any ancestor even the remote possibility. This is the reason the the vault, to protect our ancestral records to perform these ordinances.

2) Church History; To claim that the LDS church had great influence in the govt. in the 19th century is completely false, in fact the Governor of (I believe Missouri) even gave an extermination order against the Mormons. Many of them were murdered by mobs, tarred and feathered, and/or driven from their homes (Joseph Smith was killed inside a jail while being held there for his beliefs). This is what lead to their great migration West and eventual settlement in Salt Lake, Utah. These aren't any secrets and can easily be researched in history texts. After the treatment of the Mormons by the US govt. it's silly to imply that they're all of a sudden in cahoots with the govt. on some grand conspiracy.

3.) The Book of Mormon; It did not replace the Bible. Mormons still read and teach from the King James version of the Bible, the Book of Mormon is just a record of a people that left Middle-East in search of the Promised Land 400 years before Christ. It chronicles their arrival here in the Americas and the civilizations that arose from them, their belief in a Messiah, and after He died, he visited them just as he did his disciples. He did not keep returning. It then goes on to chronicle the next 200 years and the wars and fall from faith that those people went through. The last of the Christians of those civilizations fled North to modern day NY where these records were buried and later uncovered by Joseph Smith.

...And to add to my background, because I know the question will come up... I still have faith and a testimony of the LDS beliefs. I stopped not because of the church, but because of some of its members who could not accept Jesus's message to not judge others. Like all things on this earth, it is operated by humans, and we tend to err. I do not judge the faith by the actions of a few however, and so my faith remains. I just choose not to attend the establishment anymore.

So many thoughts flowing in my mind about this subject, its starting to get a little chaotic. Nice reply"LDS in Nutshell" I wish there was a way the most prudent response could some how be stuck to the last reply.
Ive been reviewing the J.Smith translation of the Bible, comparing it with the most common&obscure translations.
For the most part the JS translation is the same as KJV, except the JS version is more eloquent, its the basic KJV with added fluff.
random;(Cain vs. Able 2012 elections)
Mormans view Africans(Dark Complexion) as descendent's of Cain, and, of course, light complexions being descendent's of Able. This seems abit prejudiced to me. Does Romney believe this nonsense ? of course he does
his great,great GF was a founding member of the LDS.

Absolutely fascinating post and I didn't know these docs were being specifically collected and shared with the public. That alone has many implications now that we have advanced dna mapping.
I wonder, why would a religious operation have a huge stock in this dna raffle.. Are they trying to figure out who's dna closely matches jesus'?

Originally posted by Alethea
Why does this seem to be the mission and focus of the Mormon religion to collect information on genealogies?

They believe they can baptise the dead. They believe this is a good thing.
So it's a faith reason. It's just that simple.

reply to post by minkey53


Hiya.

It's a bit disturbing to read they're into all sorts of stuff that you don't/won't/can't mention 'cos I've been a member for over 30 years and haven't found anything weird. I'd love to know too 'cos if you really do know of weird stuff don't ya think we should all know?

Cheers,

Stewb

reply to post by HamrHeed


Hi H,

What if, through DNA (scientific, factual, real and doesn't rely on that spooky unseen "faith" stuff), we could establish our exact line right back to Adam? Might that not be a means of bringing us all together and eliminating perceptions of difference?

Just a thought.

reply to post by MrXYZ
Been one for over 30 years and don't think it's racist. No one's precluded 'cause of race/creed etc. In the politically correct UK they'd be prosecuted for such.

Just my two pence worth.

Stewb.

Originally posted by CavTrooper0430
Wow, a lot of misinformation and assumptions on this thread that could have been easily avoided with a little research. Although I do not attend church anymore, nor have I for some time, I was raised LDS and only stopped going in my early 20's (I'm 30 now). There is nothing evil or conspiracy related about a vault of records that are public anyway if you take the time to research yourself.

I will attempt to clarify some falsities I've read on here... here we go...

1.) Doctrine in a nutshell; before we were spirits we were "intelligences" existing without any perceivable state. God "organized" the intelligences and gave them spirit bodies to inhabit, but we were still not as He (man of flesh and blood) (also I'd like to ........ than you admit? And yes, while they wait in the spirit world they are given the choice to accept the baptism or not. I think it pretty selfish to deny any ancestor even the remote possibility. This is the reason

2) Church History; To claim that the LDS church had great influence in the govt. in the 19th century is completely false, in fact the Governor of (I believe Missouri) even gave an extermination order against the Mormons. Many of them were murdered by mobs, tarred and feathered, and/or driven from their homes (Joseph Smith was killed inside a jail while being held there for his beliefs). This is what lead to their great migration West and eventual settlement in Salt Lake, Utah. These aren't any secrets and can easily be researched in history texts. After the treatment of the Mormons by the US govt. it's silly to imply that they're all of a sudden in cahoots with the govt. on some grand conspiracy.

3.) The Book of Mormon; It did not replace the Bible. Mormons still read and teach from the King James version of the Bible, the Book of Mormon is just a record of a people that left Middle-East in search of the Promised Land 400 years before Christ. It chronicles their arrival here in the Americas and the civilizations that arose from them, their belief in a Messiah, and after He died, he visited them just as he did his disciples. He did not keep returning. It then goes on to chronicle the next 200 years and the wars and fall from faith that those people went through. The last of the Christians of those civilizations fled North to modern day NY where these records were buried and later uncovered by Joseph Smith.

...And to add to my background, because I know the question will come up... I still have faith and a testimony of the LDS beliefs. I stopped not because of the church, but because of some of its members who could not accept Jesus's message to not judge others. Like all things on this earth, it is operated by humans, and we tend to err. I do not judge the faith by the actions of a few however, and so my faith remains. I just choose not to attend the establishment anymore.

Thank you for taking the time to post this.

Some of the nicest people I have met have been LDS, and not once has anyone ever tried to thrust religion on me.

I am not religious by nature, but I considered joining the Mormon faith just for the social aspect. When we were students, our best friends were an LDS couple, and we really appreciated the family oriented aspect of their daily living.

The biggest thing impeding me from joining is that 1) I just like being contrary, and organized religion always makes me feel weirded out to some degree, 2) the LDS services are really long, and it seems like being LDS is a huge time commitment, 3) I don't have enough money to tithe a tenth of it

Originally posted by Alethea

Originally posted by nerbot


source

Openly released I'd say.

No, it's not "openly released" to the public. It is by subscription only. It is a for profit commercial venture using records such as census which was coerced from our relatives by mandates and in which confidentiality was implied.

Who made deals with this organization to give them information about the public which has been privatized?

That's an odd statement 'cos the International Genealogical Index (IGI) as I know it is free to everyone and at those establishments with the technology, anyone can come to view the data. In fact, the church welcomes non members to investigate their own genealogy.

Originally posted by Alethea
Mormons Have World's Largest Database on Human Race: Why?

Because they are unable to interpret the meanings of biblical numerology and because they cannot read.

Six represents opposition to divine will.

They used to teach six discussions with six pamplets to potential converts. They built their flagship temple in Utah with six spires.

Statutory rape that occurred with Helen Mar Kimball doesn't occur in heaven. Nor does polygamy.

The Bible declares itself as a final authority on doctrine. So, regardless of whether or not the witnesses to the Golden plates retracted their testimony, and many of them if not all of them NEVER retracted their testimony of seeing the plates, their testimony regarding the plates is IMMATERIAL because the Bible forbids additional scriptures.

Hinckley was one of many false prophets. The Bible forbids adultery. I have seen people wind up dead because of it. It doesn't specifically exclude fornication. Avoiding fornication is not a commandment. It's advised against. But it's not put on the same level as alienating the affections between a married couple by engaging in adultery.

And yet Hinckley taught that regarding fornication "You cannot recrucify Christ afresh with impunity". Fornication is not adultery. It's a sin, and their are penalties for it. Period. It's certainly not adding addition scriptures or preaching polygamy and statutory rape.

He taught regarding sexual transgression to keep your clothes on, but some how it is okay to engage in polygamy which the New Testament preaches against, but doesn't even compare polygamy to recrucifying Christ, and it is okay to manipulate 14 years into marriage by promising to exalt their entire families into heaven.

Mormons teach individual accountability for sin. Promising a 14 year old the ability to save her parents by ANY actions is a violation of Mormon doctrine.

The Book of Mormon violates the warning in the Bible to not add to scripture. It is warned of in at least two places. Period.

Therefore, genealogy is false doctrine in relationship to any church when that church is adding additional scriptures.

One other problem with Mormonism is that various false Mormon prophets teach that God dwells in eternal burnings.

He does not!

Satan does!

Thats why Satan is miserable. I'm tempted sometimes to run around Mormon forums with Satan in burning flames bending a 14 year old over wearing a bonnet avatar with "Dwells in Eternal Burnings" moniker.

Originally posted by Miracula

Originally posted by Alethea
Mormons Have World's Largest Database on Human Race: Why?

Because they are unable to interpret the meanings of biblical numerology and because they cannot read.

Six represents opposition to divine will.

They used to teach six discussions with six pamplets to potential converts. They built their flagship temple in Utah with six spires.

Statutory rape that occurred with Helen Mar Kimball doesn't occur in heaven. Nor does polygamy.

The Bible declares itself as a final authority on doctrine. So, regardless of whether or not the witnesses to the Golden plates retracted their testimony, and many of them if not all of them NEVER retracted their testimony of seeing the plates, their testimony regarding the plates is IMMATERIAL because the Bible forbids additional scriptures.

Hinckley was one of many false prophets. The Bible forbids adultery. I have seen people wind up dead because of it. It doesn't specifically exclude fornication. Avoiding fornication is not a commandment. It's advised against. But it's not put on the same level as alienating the affections between a married couple by engaging in adultery.

And yet Hinckley taught that regarding fornication "You cannot recrucify Christ afresh with impunity". Fornication is not adultery. It's a sin, and their are penalties for it. Period. It's certainly not adding addition scriptures or preaching polygamy and statutory rape.

He taught regarding sexual transgression to keep your clothes on, but some how it is okay to engage in polygamy which the New Testament preaches against, but doesn't even compare polygamy to recrucifying Christ, and it is okay to manipulate 14 years into marriage by promising to exalt their entire families into heaven.

Mormons teach individual accountability for sin. Promising a 14 year old the ability to save her parents by ANY actions is a violation of Mormon doctrine.

The Book of Mormon violates the warning in the Bible to not add to scripture. It is warned of in at least two places. Period.

Therefore, genealogy is false doctrine in relationship to any church when that church is adding additional scriptures.

edit on 28-2-2013 by Miracula because: added content

Hiya M,

I'd love to know of any scriptural references for all the above 'cos, to me there appears to be so much supporting what's questioned.

And, over and above what scripture tells us, is it not better advice to seek in prayer rather than just read a book and isn't prayer the ultimate which hasn't been through translation?

Aren't we meant to reach a stage where we can use our god given reasoning to work things out?

And, isn't that reasoning supported by prayer?

Prayer works (and in the phrase used on that side of the pond), period.

Cheers.

Originally posted by Stewb

Originally posted by Miracula

Originally posted by Alethea
Mormons Have World's Largest Database on Human Race: Why?

Because they are unable to interpret the meanings of biblical numerology and because they cannot read.

Six represents opposition to divine will.

They used to teach six discussions with six pamplets to potential converts. They built their flagship temple in Utah with six spires.

Statutory rape that occurred with Helen Mar Kimball doesn't occur in heaven. Nor does polygamy.

The Bible declares itself as a final authority on doctrine. So, regardless of whether or not the witnesses to the Golden plates retracted their testimony, and many of them if not all of them NEVER retracted their testimony of seeing the plates, their testimony regarding the plates is IMMATERIAL because the Bible forbids additional scriptures.

Hinckley was one of many false prophets. The Bible forbids adultery. I have seen people wind up dead because of it. It doesn't specifically exclude fornication. Avoiding fornication is not a commandment. It's advised against. But it's not put on the same level as alienating the affections between a married couple by engaging in adultery.

And yet Hinckley taught that regarding fornication "You cannot recrucify Christ afresh with impunity". Fornication is not adultery. It's a sin, and their are penalties for it. Period. It's certainly not adding addition scriptures or preaching polygamy and statutory rape.

He taught regarding sexual transgression to keep your clothes on, but some how it is okay to engage in polygamy which the New Testament preaches against, but doesn't even compare polygamy to recrucifying Christ, and it is okay to manipulate 14 years into marriage by promising to exalt their entire families into heaven.

Mormons teach individual accountability for sin. Promising a 14 year old the ability to save her parents by ANY actions is a violation of Mormon doctrine.

The Book of Mormon violates the warning in the Bible to not add to scripture. It is warned of in at least two places. Period.

Therefore, genealogy is false doctrine in relationship to any church when that church is adding additional scriptures.

edit on 28-2-2013 by Miracula because: added content

Hiya M,

I'd love to know of any scriptural references for all the above 'cos, to me there appears to be so much supporting what's questioned.

And, over and above what scripture tells us, is it not better advice to seek in prayer rather than just read a book and isn't prayer the ultimate which hasn't been through translation?

Aren't we meant to reach a stage where we can use our god given reasoning to work things out?

And, isn't that reasoning supported by prayer?

Prayer works (and in the phrase used on that side of the pond), period.

Cheers.

David Koresh prayed regularly.

So, did Jim Jones.

Prayer is useless if you aren't following, or attempting to follow Biblical law and federal, state and local laws regarding proper sexual conduct, which neither Jones, Koresh, nor Smith did.

Why, because if you are engaged in sexual transgressions like statutory rape, which all three of these men did, it opens up your mind and spirit to receiving false inspiration that is not of God.

That's why some of Smiths prophecies that failed which are documented by Richard Abane's, One Nation Under God. God had the power to validate any and all of Smith's prophecies, which God did not do as evidenced by documentation in Abane's book.

Originally posted by SmikeS
So many thoughts flowing in my mind about this subject, its starting to get a little chaotic. Nice reply"LDS in Nutshell" I wish there was a way the most prudent response could some how be stuck to the last reply.
Ive been reviewing the J.Smith translation of the Bible, comparing it with the most common&obscure translations.
For the most part the JS translation is the same as KJV, except the JS version is more eloquent, its the basic KJV with added fluff.

Are you talking about the book of mormon or an actual mormon translation of the bible?

Originally posted by Meshakhad
They were bored.

Yea they were bored. And remember that almost all of their info was gathered by others....like us gov census reports ect.

Originally posted by Miracula

Originally posted by Stewb

Originally posted by Miracula

Originally posted by Alethea
Mormons Have World's Largest Database on Human Race: Why?

Because they are unable to interpret the meanings of biblical numerology and because they cannot read.

Six represents opposition to divine will.

They used to teach six discussions with six pamplets to potential converts. They built their flagship temple in Utah with six spires.

Statutory rape that occurred with Helen Mar Kimball doesn't occur in heaven. Nor does polygamy.

The Bible declares itself as a final authority on doctrine. So, regardless of whether or not the witnesses to the Golden plates retracted their testimony, and many of them if not all of them NEVER retracted their testimony of seeing the plates, their testimony regarding the plates is IMMATERIAL because the Bible forbids additional scriptures.

Hinckley was one of many false prophets. The Bible forbids adultery. I have seen people wind up dead because of it. It doesn't specifically exclude fornication. Avoiding fornication is not a commandment. It's advised against. But it's not put on the same level as alienating the affections between a married couple by engaging in adultery.

And yet Hinckley taught that regarding fornication "You cannot recrucify Christ afresh with impunity". Fornication is not adultery. It's a sin, and their are penalties for it. Period. It's certainly not adding addition scriptures or preaching polygamy and statutory rape.

He taught regarding sexual transgression to keep your clothes on, but some how it is okay to engage in polygamy which the New Testament preaches against, but doesn't even compare polygamy to recrucifying Christ, and it is okay to manipulate 14 years into marriage by promising to exalt their entire families into heaven.

Mormons teach individual accountability for sin. Promising a 14 year old the ability to save her parents by ANY actions is a violation of Mormon doctrine.

The Book of Mormon violates the warning in the Bible to not add to scripture. It is warned of in at least two places. Period.

Therefore, genealogy is false doctrine in relationship to any church when that church is adding additional scriptures.

edit on 28-2-2013 by Miracula because: added content

Hiya M,

I'd love to know of any scriptural references for all the above 'cos, to me there appears to be so much supporting what's questioned.

And, over and above what scripture tells us, is it not better advice to seek in prayer rather than just read a book and isn't prayer the ultimate which hasn't been through translation?

Aren't we meant to reach a stage where we can use our god given reasoning to work things out?

And, isn't that reasoning supported by prayer?

Prayer works (and in the phrase used on that side of the pond), period.

Cheers.

David Koresh prayed regularly.
1. I don't know how he did, who to or whether it was a righteous and humble prayer after the manner we believe Christ taught.

So, did Jim Jones.
2. As above.

Prayer is useless if you aren't following, or attempting to follow Biblical law and federal, state and local laws regarding proper sexual conduct, which neither Jones, Koresh, nor Smith did.
3. Prayer, for me at any rate, comes from something inside and doesn't follow an objective process like the law of the land. Providing I follow Christ's lead (which might be what you mean by biblical law) nowt much will go wrong and we all have a light of Christ inside us (some call it a concience) to guide us.

Why, because if you are engaged in sexual transgressions like statutory rape, which all three of these men did, it opens up your mind and spirit to receiving false inspiration that is not of God.
4. If rape occurs occurred then criminal law needs to be applied. If someone is not around to answer an allegation then pray about it if the mind needs an answer. I've spent 30 years in law enforcement and know prayer works in many many way.

That's why some of Smiths prophecies that failed which are documented by Richard Abane's, One Nation Under God. God had the power to validate any and all of Smith's prophecies, which God did not do as evidenced by documentation in Abane's book.
5. As I understand things, God can do what he likes but the minute he validates something which is contrary to his own standards he would not/could not be a god.

Just a few thoughts.

Originally posted by Stewb

Originally posted by Miracula

Originally posted by Alethea
Mormons Have World's Largest Database on Human Race: Why?

Because they are unable to interpret the meanings of biblical numerology and because they cannot read.

Six represents opposition to divine will.

They used to teach six discussions with six pamplets to potential converts. They built their flagship temple in Utah with six spires.

Statutory rape that occurred with Helen Mar Kimball doesn't occur in heaven. Nor does polygamy.

The Bible declares itself as a final authority on doctrine. So, regardless of whether or not the witnesses to the Golden plates retracted their testimony, and many of them if not all of them NEVER retracted their testimony of seeing the plates, their testimony regarding the plates is IMMATERIAL because the Bible forbids additional scriptures.

Hinckley was one of many false prophets. The Bible forbids adultery. I have seen people wind up dead because of it. It doesn't specifically exclude fornication. Avoiding fornication is not a commandment. It's advised against. But it's not put on the same level as alienating the affections between a married couple by engaging in adultery.

And yet Hinckley taught that regarding fornication "You cannot recrucify Christ afresh with impunity". Fornication is not adultery. It's a sin, and their are penalties for it. Period. It's certainly not adding addition scriptures or preaching polygamy and statutory rape.

He taught regarding sexual transgression to keep your clothes on, but some how it is okay to engage in polygamy which the New Testament preaches against, but doesn't even compare polygamy to recrucifying Christ, and it is okay to manipulate 14 years into marriage by promising to exalt their entire families into heaven.

Mormons teach individual accountability for sin. Promising a 14 year old the ability to save her parents by ANY actions is a violation of Mormon doctrine.

The Book of Mormon violates the warning in the Bible to not add to scripture. It is warned of in at least two places. Period.

Therefore, genealogy is false doctrine in relationship to any church when that church is adding additional scriptures.

edit on 28-2-2013 by Miracula because: added content

Hiya M,

I'd love to know of any scriptural references for all the above 'cos, to me there appears to be so much supporting what's questioned.


Cheers.

Hi Stew,

A quick google search will show you Old Testament prohibits adultery entirely. It will also show you in the Old Testament rules on what acts of fornication are permissible and what acts are sufficient to warrant a death.

For example in the Old Testament fornicating with both a woman and her daughter was sufficient to warrant the death penalty.

If God expected people to completely avoid fornication altogether I would assume he would have made it one of the 10 commandments.

One thing I would attempt to avoid is unplanned pregnancies that are a danger with one night stands.

I don't see anything wrong with an unmarried couple who are in a relationship having sex.

I certainly in regards to Mormonism see it as being far less of an offense than manipulating 14 year old girls into marriage, especially when you consider that statutory rape by deception might be the very reason in addition to taking up arms against his countrymen might be the very reason why God allowed Smith to be killed at Carthage Jail.

The Mormons created that database so they could track when a certain person was born. I slipped through the cracks though, they ignored the mice and were just looking at the Rats in our society.