Why did the ancients needed to know when eclipses where due? THE ANSWER!

Many have asked , -"Why was it so important for them to know when an eclipse was due, what purpose did it serve?"-

I have been told that it was all a matter of control, in ancient times, eclipses where a HUGE deal.
We now know what is going on, it has lost plenty in the ways of meaning, but not in power, there are some special radiations that one can get during eclipses, but thats another issue.

In ancient times, eclipses meant omens direct from the things out there beyond human control or comprehension, eclipses meant death, eclipses meant rebirth.
This ancient knowledge was passed on from secret society to secret society, but don't get me wrong, some "secret society" of yore really means "group of specialists", or super scientist, if you get a someone that works in quantum acceleration, or someone that takes particle beam workshops on the weekends next to a lady GAGA or a Transformers 3 uber geek, the scientist will be sorted out as the weird one, there is simple an enormous gap between minds thus , it was better to keep things quiet back then and only keep stuff within peers, they of course found a way to make gold coins with the knowledge they had.
And sold it to the highest bidder.

Remember were talking about the time before anything we now know was even glimpsed by the common folk, just like in our times.

The Mayans for example, had similar calculations, they knew exactly when an eclipse was going to happen, in their worldview, the gods needed fuel for their celestial journeys through time, several sacrifices were held several days before, and when the eclipse happened when predicted, the mighty warlock would say Kukulkan has been fed full.
has dies and been reborn.

The common folk, the pragmatic bunch of them only cared in the end results, they saw the sun being put out and then fired up again by the sacrifices, their mindset reasoned our priests and leaders truly must be in contact with the gods, we must OBEY.

and in obeying they stagnated and died of diseases, corruption, and filth, just like in our times.
this being only an example, the Aztecs and the Incas had the knowledge amongst several others in the American continent.

Maya astronomers were so accurate that one has to imagine how their calendars could be so accurate into the future. They were well aware that small cycles lead inevitably to bigger ones. Their codex seems to have been a mechanism for predicting not when the first crescent moons of the future could be sighted, but which full moons would be eclipsed and which new moons would eclipse the sun. It must have taken all of a century or more, which means several generations of perceptive astronomical observing, for specialists in skywatching to work through to a conclusion that their Chinese and Babylonian counterparts also had arrived at, i.e. that once a lunar or solar eclipse occurs, it is not possible to have another (of the same kind) until six, or more rarely, five months pass.

source (great info on several civilizations views on eclipses.)


Knowledge is power, and an eclipse is flashy enough to instill the fear of gods and kings, several other cultures saw the importance of knowing, like in India, or in China, some put demonic influences, and needing to know to protect the crops and the fertile women, others it was a symbol of needed change, regardless the cost, others as the day God peeked its eye over human champions.

Its no COINCIDENCE that so many ancient battles where fought during eclipses, for them to be coincidence would range in the millions of odds against!

They knew, well some did, the wise amongst the wise.

These are some coincidental battles during eclipses, many changing the odds...

The battle of Gaugamela with Alexander the great involved link

A total lunar eclipse occurred during the night preceding the decisive Battle of Gaugamela (20th September 331 BCE), when the Macedonian army, led by Alexander the Great, finally defeated the Persian king Darius and his army.

source



The battle of Halys

The Battle of Halys, also known as the Battle of the Eclipse, took place at the Halys River (present-day "Kızılırmak" river in Turkey) on May 28, 585 BC between the Medes and the Lydians. The final battle of a five-year war between Alyattes II of Lydia and Cyaxares of the Medes, the battle ended abruptly due to a total solar eclipse; the eclipse was perceived as an omen, indicating that the gods wanted the fighting to stop.

the battle of Halys in the wackypedia link


In ancient China

October 22, 2134 B.C. — Hi and Ho, The Royal Astronomers Predicting an eclipse was a duty of ancient Chinese astronomers. The earliest written record of a total solar eclipse comes from China. In 2134 B.C. two royal astronomers, Hi and Ho, knew that an eclipse was due. According to legend, on the day of the eclipse they were too drunk to perform the rites of chanting, beating drums and shooting arrows at the dragon that was devouring the Sun. When the eclipse took place the emperor — also known as the 'Son of the Sky'— was caught unprepared. Advance notice was required to dispatch the archers to frighten the dragon consuming the sun. The emperor ordered Hi and Ho beheaded for their sins.

source

BTW, check that site out it has plenty on info on why it was important for them to know


One from the ancient Greeks

A solar eclipse in Asia Minor brings an abrupt halt to a battle, as the warring armies lay down their arms and declare a truce. Historical astronomy later sets a likely date, providing a debatable calculation point for pinning down some dates in ancient history.

source


A Biblical one:

June 15, 763 B.C.—A Biblical Eclipse "And on that day," says the Lord God, "I will make the Sun go down at noon, and darken the Earth in broad daylight." This eclipse is confirmed by an Assyrian historical record known as the Eponym Canon. (Amos Chapter 8, Verse 9 - Old Testament)

IF your priests say the Lord saith he was going to put the sun down on a set date, then they must be in good standing with Him, thus we must obey...




Although we can also have this to consider:

Magical eclipses have been purely fabricated to meet some significant event or war in history. An example was the solar eclipse of 2nd October 480 BC., when the march of the Persia king Xerxes on Boeotia in Greece was suddenly turned back because of the occurrence of an eclipse, though some have interpreted this as the reason for the beginning of the invasion of Greece. Another was the solar eclipse reported by the poet Archilochus of Paros (680-645 BC.) that presumably occurred on 6th April 648 BC., over the Aegean island of Thasos near the Macedonian coast.

Assimilated eclipses are ones thought to have been date shifted purposely by the author to meet certain political events or wars of particular significance. We think that some of the famous battles were staged around the time of some eclipse, whose only reason was to frighten off the opposing side. Both the Greeks and Romans may have used this idea to their own advantages. Probably, the most famous example was during Alexander the Great in his final Battle of Issus against the Persian army on 26th September 331 BC. The fighting of this battle was the morning after a total lunar eclipse. Alexander claimed to his men that it meant good fortune. The Persians shrank in fear and terror, interpreting this as a sign of a coming defeat. Historians have often said that this may have been the story created after the battle to show that the gods were actually on the side of the Greeks.

Literary eclipses are ones that are pure fiction, created solely for the prestige of the author. An example is the presumed observed eclipse was during 71 AD. in Italy. It never happened!

source



We can believe anything we want, the fact is that they knew, way before they where "supposed" to know, they had some knowledge and passed it down secretly between the ruling elite, until the magic went to hell and science went to heaven.
A paradigm to support the crippling one, and in the new one hide "evident" truths once again.
It has always been the same, and will continue to be so, because we sure aren't doing anything about it.

It has always been a matter of control, us the few controlling the many by any means necessary, power takes many shapes and sizes, nowadays it equals knowledge and what you can do with it.

In order to know when an eclipse will occur, you must also know WHERE it will occur. To do this, you need to understand many things, like the size of the Earth and the orbit of the moon.

This proves that they knew these things long, long ago.

Exactly!

And that the same methods still work, for example, tell them that there exists only one side to everything, instead of letting them know that there is a coin, and that it has 2 sides.

That partial reality I´m getting from religion, science, history and spirituality doesn't quite explain many phenomena I have witnessed, and knowing that in antiquity fear and resentment towards rulers and "people on the know" was just like it is today, certainly gives me a clear indicator, we haven't been moving forward.

I know, many don't wish to rewrite history books, because it would destabilize current power structures, but still, I figure we should be asking more questions instead of just nodding every time.

There exists artifacts in many museums worldwide that could rewrite the conception we have of ancient peoples, and they will remain there until, the proverbial eclipse announces that its time to change or die!

Originally posted by TheOneEyedProphet
, they of course found a way to make gold coins with the knowledge they had.
And sold it to the highest bidder.

Are you referring to turning lead into gold? It is an allegory. It is our lead asses they have turned into gold by making us free range slaves. We are the lead that produces the gold for them.

And as far as eclipses having any real power? No. People were controlled by superstition and the phenomenon was used to those ends . Even today, many people are controlled by omens and superstitions. It is all fear based phooey.

This can be explained by Plasma Cosmology theory

Originally posted by harrytuttle
In order to know when an eclipse will occur, you must also know WHERE it will occur. To do this, you need to understand many things, like the size of the Earth and the orbit of the moon.

This proves that they knew these things long, long ago.

Proves nothing at all.

They didn't know this.

The Metonic and Saros cycles predict many (not all, by a large measure) eclipses, but as far as the Saros, the next eclipse on that series happens 1/3 of the way around the world from the last one.

After three cycles, you're back to square one.

The square one eclipse is the one they could predict.

Harte

reply to post by Alethea



No i mean that the ones that come upon a significant development in science or engineering and the like, have historically, SOLD that knowledge to the ruling class, many great minds have preferred to get filthy rich than the advancing of mankind, and one cannot really hold any grudge against them, after all its only human to stab our peers in the back!
They did not teach to the majority of common folk that it was the moon that obstructed the sun, they told people that it was god either getting angry because of their sins, or getting hungry and wanting sacrifice, or that it was the demons doing what they like to do best!...

We the common masses don't get to know the truth, until they feel we should, and if one finds out about some secret or hidden agenda, well, good luck in trying to get it out, ironically we are weary of what the masters tell us, even when we only believe in what they say.

Th idea of control needs to be maintained in order to govern and control successfully, even if its only an idea, and even if its only a lie.

Science has been in the service of the moneylenders, and when that is not so, the powers will make everything in their power to either buy out the competition, and when that does not work they defame and resort to dirt tactics in order to loose credibility.
Its all a matter of perception.
It is all a matter of belief

I think you need to combine a few more pieces. All religions worship the sun. There is a reason for this that has nothing to due with light and heat. There is only one thing that blocks this out, on occasion, and that is the moon.

So take a step back. The sun is the god as without it nothing is here. Let us assume for a minute that they knew that the sun was like out parent, providing energy for us to live. That energy is neutral, a force to help us evolve, but a force that does not take sides in anyway. Like power for our houses.

Now, for a moment, imagine that cutting off that power has power it and of itself. Think parents going on vacation - a moment without the force that governs you. Now, think power outage and looting. The parent goes away and the power goes out, what can I do? OR, what should I not do?

There are many, Bruce Cathie being one, who point out that Nuclear bombs can only go off in conjunction with solar activity - harnessing the sun. Not bombs as powerful as nukes (that might be called nukes), but the nukes themselves can only be detonated at certain times, and those times are determined by the sun. This tells us the sun is in charge and to block it out changes things in some way.

Our moon is the only one that does this perfectly, the size and distance has it blocking out the sun as it placed there perfectly, not too far back or too far front, how truly remarkable that it only happened here.

do some research into satanic rituals and the eclipse and how it relates to the magnetic field - cant offer more - at work - but the info is out there

exactly my point!
the sun has meant many different thing throughout history, but a constant can be implied, as you have said rightfully so, its like the parents leaving the children when they where not supposed to.

Now imagine the implications of said events amongst the people in the lower parts of the hypothetical pyramid, it has also been a constant that the lower strata in any society, are the ones that have less education, less opportunities and above all, the ones that are, and I don't want to generalize but the evidence seems to support this, the most superstitious and more likely in getting their hopes up in god for taking them out of their misery than in their hard work, because as has also been a constant, they work the most and get to have the most meager results for their efforts.

What would they say when the priests told them that they and only they where the ones chosen by god to do his willing?
and then when the time came as they had said before, the eclipse came, that is to me the greatest weapon of mass control I can think of, THE FEAR OF GOD.

When faced with a superior, omnipotent, almighty power monger, one listens, and if they fill the town with statues, and sacrifice, and built temples then the idea gets supported by material machinations, and the show goes on.

They all had myths about the sun and the moon, and some used that knowledge to control and install fear, when they backed it up with science, and a knowledge far superior to the common folk, they started to plot on how to keep themselves at the top...

As it is done today!

reply to post by masonicon


I know, but tell my brother, can it be easily explained and thus understood by the majority of people?

That is just what I mean, some "secret societies" of the past where a bunch of fringe scientists having to maintain a low profile unless they where judged as witches or worse, because of the new understanding they had of reality, their thought was becoming more scientific and less magical, thus god turned to be a not so imposing figure once some secrets were discovered about the workings of the Universe.

Some of those "secret societies" being as smart as they where figured a way to make money from what they knew and the most important of all, figured out how to never be persecuted at all while having the freedom of doing anything they wanted, and the only way to do that is through raw power, power that comes from controlling the ruling elite, the bankers, the scientists, the priests!

Eclipses where only the apex!

---

Not only so called satanists are interested in the odd energies that eclipses beget. they take the symbol through the conception of darkness conquering light, a valid meaning if it ever had one!

Personally I´d rather work with the meaning of rebirth and change through the passing darkness, because no matter the shadow, there is always the inevitable light making it possible to exist!

Human nature will never change, this is the way it will always be for this race. The game is about survival. For one person to have everything and survive, he needs to be able to control everyone. We are as much in the dark about the true nature of things as the people were about what we now take for granted.

Someone with such knowledge can pose as a god to uneducated people, and keeping them uneducated, or miseducated will prolong the spell. In much the same way that a small group of people own pretty much every bank, corporation and government, make the laws and dictate the science that we are allowed to know.

I am almost certain that the gods of old were people who discovered either lost technology and knowledge from previous civilisations, or merely invented it themselves, and used their "magic" and "infinite wisdom" to literally become gods.

Originally posted by crankyoldman
. . . All religions worship the sun.

Obviously you know very little about world religions.
Australian aborigines told tales of the sun, but they did not worship it.
Nor do Buddhists, Hindus, Taoists, Shintoists . . .

There are many, Bruce Cathie being one, who point out that Nuclear bombs can only go off in conjunction with solar activity - harnessing the sun. Not bombs as powerful as nukes (that might be called nukes), but the nukes themselves can only be detonated at certain times, and those times are determined by the sun. This tells us the sun is in charge and to block it out changes things in some way.

Yep. Nukes can only be detonated if it's midnight . . . somewhere on Earth. As it's always midnight somewhere on Earth any nuke can be detonated anytime, anywhere.

IOW you've been taken in by Cathie the Con-artist.

Our moon is the only one that does this perfectly, the size and distance has it blocking out the sun as it placed there perfectly, not too far back or too far front, how truly remarkable that it only happened here.

And if the moon was 1/4 the size of the moon:
"how truly remarkable that it only happened here."

Originally posted by Kailassa
Yep. Nukes can only be detonated if it's midnight . . . somewhere on Earth. As it's always midnight somewhere on Earth any nuke can be detonated anytime, anywhere.

IOW you've been taken in by Cathie the Con-artist.

And if the moon was 1/4 the size of the moon:
"how truly remarkable that it only happened here."

Stop making fun of the handicapped!

Harte

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by harrytuttle
In order to know when an eclipse will occur, you must also know WHERE it will occur. To do this, you need to understand many things, like the size of the Earth and the orbit of the moon.

This proves that they knew these things long, long ago.

Proves nothing at all.

They didn't know this.

The Metonic and Saros cycles predict many (not all, by a large measure) eclipses, but as far as the Saros, the next eclipse on that series happens 1/3 of the way around the world from the last one.

After three cycles, you're back to square one.

The square one eclipse is the one they could predict.

Harte

Harte, are you making stuff up just to sound smart? I Googled your phrase "square one eclipse" and guess how many results I came up with???

ZERO.

You made up this term, and why people starred you for basically writing pure B.S. is beyond me.

To you other ATS users who starred this guy, do us all a favor, when you are IGNORANT of some phrase or concept someone talks about, don't be impressed and star them. RESEARCH it to see if there is a reason you don't understand what it is that they are saying. If that research shows that the person is just making crap up, you probably shouldn't star them.

reply to post by Firefly_


I too believe that what you mention IS what has happened, hard core scientists of yore where called occultists, or heretics, or warlocks, and worse!

It is not unreasonable to come to certain partial conclusions, but understanding the fractal spiral of existence shows us, that things repeat itself in cycles, and that the masses only care on the apparent results.

I´m sure they do not tell us everything there is to know, and I´m also sure that geological, archeological and biologic evidence has been found in several places to rewrite history books 4 times over or more, and that we, the common simple minded folk, will be the last to know...

We allow some forces to steer our paths, we have let them guide us through the least efficient paths, and now we see the results and wonder why?

reply to post by harrytuttle



That is the fear one has in places like these, anyone can pass out like an expert, great minds can pass as fools!

The ancients did know much, granted they did not know much, just like us, we just believe to know everything, but believing does not make it so.
We have so much hubris in our modern times, we discard every possibility to expand and analyze new data and revelations because we fear the change rewriting and re believing something will bring, we like our parking spots, why should we change??

Because the ancients also thought like us, to be the center of the universe, to be immortal and unforgettable, and the only things that remained of their worlds are the empty husks of their crumbling building.

Knowledge IS power, the greatest one there is, but the trick is knowing what to do with the knowledge gained, the trick is to decide whether knowledge frees us , or binds us...

be wary , and as has been wisely stated, fear not change, fear the proliferation of ignorance instead!

Originally posted by harrytuttle

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by harrytuttle
In order to know when an eclipse will occur, you must also know WHERE it will occur. To do this, you need to understand many things, like the size of the Earth and the orbit of the moon.

This proves that they knew these things long, long ago.

Proves nothing at all.

They didn't know this.

The Metonic and Saros cycles predict many (not all, by a large measure) eclipses, but as far as the Saros, the next eclipse on that series happens 1/3 of the way around the world from the last one.

After three cycles, you're back to square one.

The square one eclipse is the one they could predict.

Harte

Harte, are you making stuff up just to sound smart? I Googled your phrase "square one eclipse" and guess how many results I came up with???

ZERO.

You made up this term, and why people starred you for basically writing pure B.S. is beyond me.

I didn't make up the phrase "back to square one." It's a common phrase, man.

And no, it's not bull#. And I was unaware of any stars. Glad to learn it though.

Originally posted by harrytuttle
To you other ATS users who starred this guy, do us all a favor, when you are IGNORANT of some phrase or concept someone talks about, don't be impressed and star them. RESEARCH it to see if there is a reason you don't understand what it is that they are saying.

Perhaps you should take your own advice. I'm sure that, had you bothered to Google "Saros eclipse cycle," (which was, after all, the subject of my post) you would have come away singing a decidedly different tune.

Perhaps, had you not been so blinded by your ignorant rage at having been so utterly wrong, you might have read this:

In the case of an eclipse of the Sun, this means that the region of visibility will shift westward by 120°, or one third of the way around the globe, and the two eclipses will thus not be visible from the same place on Earth. In the case of an eclipse of the Moon, the next eclipse might still be visible from the same location as long as the Moon is above the horizon. However, if one waits three Saros cycles, the local time of day of an eclipse will be nearly the same. This period of three Saros cycles (54 years 1 month, or almost 19756 full days), is known as a Triple Saros or exeligmos (Greek: "turn of the wheel").

Source

or this:

Because the Saros does not contain an integral number of days, its biggest drawback is that subsequent eclipses are visible from different parts of the globe. Although the 1/3 day displacement shifts the eclipse path 120° westward with each cycle, the series returns to the same geographic region every 3 Saroses or 56 years and 34 days.

Source
Or, you could have read different versions of precisely what I posted on (probably) any of the other approximately 39,000 sites google comes up with in that search.

I don't post if I don't know.

You ought to try that philosophy sometime.

How's that foot taste?

Harte

Originally posted by harrytuttle

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by harrytuttle
In order to know when an eclipse will occur, you must also know WHERE it will occur. To do this, you need to understand many things, like the size of the Earth and the orbit of the moon.
This proves that they knew these things long, long ago.

Proves nothing at all.
They didn't know this.
The Metonic and Saros cycles predict many (not all, by a large measure) eclipses, but as far as the Saros, the next eclipse on that series happens 1/3 of the way around the world from the last one.
After three cycles, you're back to square one.
The square one eclipse is the one they could predict.
Harte

Harte, are you making stuff up just to sound smart? I Googled your phrase "square one eclipse" and guess how many results I came up with???
ZERO.
You made up this term, and why people starred you for basically writing pure B.S. is beyond me.
To you other ATS users who starred this guy, do us all a favor, when you are IGNORANT of some phrase or concept someone talks about, don't be impressed and star them. RESEARCH it to see if there is a reason you don't understand what it is that they are saying. If that research shows that the person is just making crap up, you probably shouldn't star them.

The only problem is your lack of comprehension.
Harte is not saying there is a type of eclipse known of as a "square one eclipse".

Are you not familiar with the phrase, "you're back to square one"?
Harte is talking about the eclipse that happens when you are back at square one, position wise.

You really should avoid calling people "IGNORANT" when you have problems understanding English. Is English your second language?

Originally posted by Kailassa
You really should avoid calling people "IGNORANT" when you have problems understanding English.

Glad I actually communicated. It was starting to look like maybe not. Thanks, Kailassa.

Anyway, his opinion of me is his own and he's welcome to it.

You can't expect an ignorant person to know any better.
And besides, "ignorant" is not a slur. It's merely an indication that one is uninformed. Of course, I'm not uninformed but as I said, that's an opinion he's welcome to keep, if he feels it necessary.

Originally posted by Kailassa
Is English your second language?

Maybe I should have thought of that. On the other hand, it still doesn't give ignorance a free pass on a site with the motto "Deny Ignorance."

Of course, I have no doubt that harrytuttle will certainly deny his own. It remains to be seen whether he will actually post this denial.

Harte