The Gulf Stream (stopping/slowing) WILL NOT cause the UK/Europe to enter a new Ice Age, page 2

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reply posted on 14-12-2010 @ 02:28 PM by Sinter Klaas

reply to post by spinalremain

Yeah what about it ?

What about that skeptic argument that Jupiter is warming?

intermediate version.

Or... Could it be because of its own doing....?

Since Jupiter is farther away from the Sun than the Earth, it should theoretically be colder, but in fact, Jupiter has a vast range of temperatures. Unlike the Earth which is heated by the Sun, Jupiter's core actually produces its own heat. Temperatures range from extremely hot 54,000 [degrees] F (30,000 [degrees] C) at its core to frigidly cold -238 [degrees] F (150 [degrees] C) in its outer cloud layers,

The heat generated by Jupiter's core causes its atmosphere to be in constant motion. Jupiter's extremely strong winds (up to 400 mph) are caused largely by its vast temperature ranges. The intense heat near the core causes gas molecules to rise rapidly. These molecules cool quickly as they enter the frigid outer layers and fall back inwards towards Jupiter. This constant movement of molecules causes Jupiter's intense winds. It also causes the formation of yellowish-brown smog.

It sure isn't comparable with Earths rise in temperature, which has proved by many to be totally interpretable.

reply posted on 14-12-2010 @ 02:35 PM by Danbones

reply to post by Sinter Klaas

wouldn't be to sure about that
show me some MMGW thread where this has been mentioned by the MMGW types

The temperature of the inner core can be estimated using experimental and theoretical constraints on the melting temperature of impure iron at the pressure (about 330 GPa) of the inner core boundary, yielding estimates of 5,700 K (5,430 °C; 9,800 °F).[8] The range of pressure in Earth's inner core is about 330 to 360 gigapascals (3,300,000 to 3,600,000 atm),[9] and iron can only be solid at such high temperatures because its melting temperature increases dramatically at these high pressures.[10]

The core of the Earth is still hot because it contains radioactive uranium which was derived from a local supernova explosion before the earth formed. It is the heat produced by radioactive decay that has prevented the Earth's core from cooling and solidifying. Heat sources include gravitational energy released by the compression of the core, gravitational energy released by the rejection of light elements

en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 14-12-2010 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

Ps please note the depth of perma frost its measured in feet,
not yard or miles

edit on 14-12-2010 by Danbones because: PS

reply posted on 14-12-2010 @ 03:06 PM by Sinter Klaas

reply to post by Danbones

I do not understand what you're trying to say with the Earth's core temperatures.
Can you please fill me in ?

My post regarding Jupiter are a reply to what another member said out warming on jupiter.

reply posted on 14-12-2010 @ 03:36 PM by jrmcleod

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by jrmcleod

Hi star for you., That was a very informative reply.

You made me understand the issue a lot better. Just to make sure...

You basically say that because of changes in our atmosphere, the gulf currents warm and moist air ( we normally get here ) is blocked because the jet stream has been forced south due to a vortex that created an opening for cold arctic weather to get redistributed across northern Europe, which would normally been block by that same yet stream ?

The polar vortex hasnt caused the Jet Stream to move, AAM has caused this and its wholly natural. The Jet Stream moves all the time between latitudes. It is a converoy belt (so to speak) for the transfer of air. As a result of the Jet Stream moving, air masses also move.

The current set up is this (in the UK)...

There is a High Pressure over Greenland (which is common), its usually referred to as The Greenland High. This High Pressure is extending over the North Atlantic and forcing any Low Pressures forming over the East Coast of America to be pushed that little bit further south than normal. The normal track would be straight into the UK and we'd have that wet and windy weather that we are famed for. The Low Pressure picks up moisture and then deposits it on our shores, mainly on the west coast because of a cooling effect the mountains in the UK have on the moisture. Now that there is a High Pressure blocking a direct impact of these Low Pressures from hitting our shores, colder air can travel south. As the High Pressure builds over Greenland, another is forming over Russia and Scandanavia. These 2 High Pressures are creating a "chanel" in which a Polar Vortex (Low Pressure in the Arctic) can track down between the 2 High Pressures, which is subsequently going to be directly over the UK. This Polar Vortex will drag cold air from the Arctic with an occluded front (most likely) on its leading edge as it tracks south through Scotland and then England. This front will most likely be sleet on its leading edge but as the cold digs in and undercuts the front, the sleet will readily turn to snow. Once the front has passed through the UK the country will be left in a cold air mass with winds being dragged from the Arctic. This will lead to more snow showers.

I have posted a very recent fax image to illustrate what i mean along with a recent Forecasting Model Image

Sorry i have used the UK as an example and not the US but its easier for me because i know about current UK weather patterns here at the moment.

Fax Chart
Weather Model Prediction Image

I have uploaded a coloured image to illustrate where the pressures are located. The lighter the colour the higher the pressure. You can see the effect of the "blocking" i reffered too earlier in the second image.

reply posted on 14-12-2010 @ 04:08 PM by Sinter Klaas

reply to post by jrmcleod

Thank you very much.

I'm from across the pont yet mypont is way smaller tho. I'm Dutch the UK mp is way better for me.

reply posted on 19-12-2010 @ 09:01 AM by Havick007

reply to post by jrmcleod

Well to all your quotes and sources i will also provide some that differ quite alot from yours:

A major contribution of the Gulf Stream system is its warming effect upon the climates of adjacent land areas. In winter the air over the ocean west of Norway is more than 40° F (22° C) warmer than the average for that latitude, one of the greatest temperature anomalies in the world. The prevailing westerly winds carry the warmth and moisture of the ocean to northwestern Europe, giving Bergen, Nor., at 60° N latitude, an average high temperature for its coldest month of 34° F (1° C), while Reykjavík, Ice., 4° of latitude farther north, has a 31° F (0° C) average for its coldest month. In southwestern England the climatic modification produced by the current is reflected in the extraordinary mildness of the winters at this northern latitude, including the growing of winter vegetables and flowers and the presence of subtropical vegetation and lemon trees in southern Devonshire. Along the western margins of the North Atlantic, however, where the winds are predominantly from the shore, the Gulf Stream has little effect. Halifax, Nova Scotia, nearly 1,000 miles south of Bergen, averages only 23° F (-5° C) during its coldest month.

www.britannica.com...

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Such a change could have a severe impact on Britain, which lies on the same latitude as Siberia and ought to be much colder. The Gulf Stream transports 27,000 times more heat to British shores than all the nation’s power supplies could provide, warming Britain by 5-8C.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

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Here as an interesting documentary:

topdocumentaryfilms.com...

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In the case of the North Atlantic, heat is carried northward and eastward by the Gulf Stream. This current warms the coast evenly through the year, in winter as well as summer. Averaged over a year, the Gulf Stream provides Western Europe with a third as much warmth as the Sun does.

www.firstscience.com...

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It seems to me that the Gulf Stream plays a very important role in the climate, dont you think??

reply posted on 19-12-2010 @ 03:12 PM by jrmcleod

reply to post by Havick007

Thanks for the info. Its good to see others posting useful information and providing a good basis for a debate on the subject.

The crux of this situation and issue is that no one knows for sure just how much of an impact the GS makes to the northern hemisphere. Sure they can tell you it warms the land or it brings up nutrients for sea life, but ntil it is actually witnessed (stopped) the results cant be measured with any degree of accuracy.

My whole oint in my thread is to inform others that the GS stopping wont be all that is required to plunge us into the next ice age. Yes it may affect the UK temp and make its seasons more extreme, like canada and russia, but a full blown ice age? There is no evidence to suggest that the GS stopping would have this effect, only speculation.

I think other factors which control the world climate are far more important in heat distribution and ice age events.

reply posted on 19-12-2010 @ 03:52 PM by purplemer

if the gulf stream stopped we would have colder winters than moscow in the uk...
kx

reply posted on 19-12-2010 @ 04:41 PM by jrmcleod

Originally posted by purplemer
if the gulf stream stopped we would have colder winters than moscow in the uk...
kx

No we wouldnt, and the reason we wouldnt is because Moscow is land locked and has direct wind from Siberia that doesnt warm as it travels over land.

The UK is an island, with or without the Gulf Stream the air still warms as it travels over water.

The sea takes months to warm up with the sun, the sea is warmer in winter than it is in summer. As the sun heats it in summer, it take months for the temp to dissipate, approx 12 months, by the next summer it is cold again. This heat that is locked into the sea, in comparison with summer is what is driving the convection supplying the snow to the eastern half of the UK at present.

This is a direct example of the temp of the North Sea in winter compaed to summer. The GS does NOT affect the North Sea on the east coast of the UK.

If we had an Easterly wind in the height of summer, the worst we would have through convection is fog. This is why the wind from the east in summer is always cold, it travels over water that is colder than in winter. The convection suppled by the warmer sea in winter gives you heavy snowfall in winter, this is why an Eastely or North Easterly wind in winter always brings snow. This is what has happened here since mid-november.

edit on 19/12/10 by jrmcleod because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 19-12-2010 @ 05:16 PM by purplemer

reply to post by jrmcleod

That's the paradoxical scenario gaining credibility among many climate scientists. The thawing of sea ice covering the Arctic could disturb or even halt large currents in the Atlantic Ocean. Without the vast heat that these ocean currents deliver--comparable to the power generation of a million nuclear power plants--Europe's average temperature would likely drop 5 to 10°C (9 to 18°F), and parts of eastern North America would be chilled somewhat less. Such a dip in temperature would be similar to global average temperatures toward the end of the last ice age roughly 20,000 years ago.

science.nasa.gov...

now i am not saying that is what is going to happen. That is what is predicted. Currents are hard things to predict.. According to that report some scientists think this could happen within the next 15 years...

kx

reply posted on 19-12-2010 @ 08:07 PM by littlebunny

reply to post by Havick007

Hey Havick007,

Thanks for posting that information...

I know for a fact it has been taught the gulf stream was partly responsible for the last little ice age. And it is being partly blamed for any coming ice age... How can science be this upside down... all the time and about everything climate related... and still be believed about anything that science cannot fully test? The information posted by the OP does more to hurt any trust in science, then it will do to help reign in anyone’s fears regarding this cold weather... Being born in LA, I have no concept of bad winter weather... yet my mother was raised in Chicago and she says what's happening across the country (USA) is not news... It’s a mild winter storm (weather) then what she remembers as a child... and my dad laughs at the news and how bad THE NEWS is making the weather appear. In Minnesota he says it was NORMAL to shovel 3/5 feet of snow a day… said he made a good living as a child… and he remembers when it snowed over 88 feet in one month….

Anyways... thanks for the info...

--Charles Marcello

edit on 19-12-2010 by littlebunny because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 7-1-2011 @ 10:00 PM by KDM_Souljah

I think you should revaluate your post because there is lots of plausible theorys and facts to back up this claim and i would recommend any one to get over to this youtube channel and check out whats going on and it has put together lots of conspiracies and paints a very clear agenda that affects the whole planet

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