True Patriots Are Christians

Originally posted by fnpmitchreturns
BS!!!!! In fact you can not be a real patroit if you are a Christian who does not believe in religious freedom. Our forefathers left England to escape religious tyranny by the Church of England and THE GOVERNMENT ASSOCIATED WITH THE CHURCH! The biggest reason why we have seperation of church and state.

Actually, in the first settlement at Jamestown, VA (Plymouth Rock MASS would be twenty years later) our forefathers came here with the idea that there was huge wealth to be made. The "gentlemen" and the dandys soon died off due to disease, indians, and climate.

What was left were a tough bunch of SOBs, realists, not religious fanatics and refugees.

Unlike Mass, twenty years later, the colonists in Virginia weren't met by helpful benign natives; they were met by warlords who started killing them before they even got off the boats, and by malaria ridden swamps.

The religious fanatics / wimps that landed at Plymouth Rock would never have survived.

Rubbish America was founded on beer,thats right good ole beer. lrn2history

BTW: John F. Kennedy as president recognized that the first Thanksgiving took place not in MASS, but at Berkeley Plantation in Virginia, long before the religious fanatics set foot in north america.

It is a fact that the first settlers of this nation were seeking religious freedom.

It is a fact that most of the founding fathers of this nation were Christian.

It is also a fact that Government buildings were used as Christian meeting places for most of the history of this Nation.

The concept of separation of Government and Religion ONLY meant that Government could not establish a State Religion i.e. Church of England. Not that religion should be kept out of the Government.

Like it or not it is a Fact that this Nation was founded as a Christian Nation, upon Christian beliefs.

With all of that said…

NO you do not need to be Christian to be a Patriot.

A Patriot is one who wishes to defend the Constitution (in its pure form) of this Nation, and will surrender no freedom given to us by GOD (not the state) and is willing to risk all in doing so.

GOD Bless the Patriot. Keep them safe and give them courage. Direct their hearts and minds for the common good. In Christ Name we ask you or Lord to give Victory over the Evil we fight. Amen.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


Tell me....Is this a Christian Patriot?

www.youtube.com...

I'll pass thank you very much!

I dont know why I bother but anyway.

Jefferson aimed at laissez-faire liberalism in the name of individual freedom, He felt that any form of government control, not only of religion, but of individual mercantilism consisted of tyranny. He thought that our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry.

www.nobeliefs.com...

Although Jefferson believed in a Creator, his concept of it resembled that of the god of deism (the term "Nature's God" used by deists of the time). With his scientific bent, Jefferson sought to organize his thoughts on religion. He rejected the superstitions and mysticism of Christianity and even went so far as to edit the gospels, removing the miracles and mysticism of Jesus (see The Jefferson Bible) leaving only what he deemed the correct moral philosophy of Jesus.

So without a doubt you do not have to be a christian to be a patriot,the author of our constitution proves it.

reply to post by brokedown

It is a fact that most of the founding fathers of this nation were Christian.

Care to back up that "fact" with some real evidence, friend? Never mind, I will do this for you! The statement is a bold faced lie, and there is no truth in it.


Fundamentalist Christians are currently working overtime to convince the American public that the founding fathers intended to establish this country on "biblical principles," but history simply does not support their view. The men who were instrumental in the founding of our Nation were in no sense Bible-believing Christians, most were Deists.

Thomas Jefferson was just as suspicious of the traditional belief that the Bible is "the inspired word of God." He rewrote the story of Jesus as told in the New Testament and compiled his own gospel version known as The Jefferson Bible, which eliminated all miracles attributed to Jesus and ended with his burial.

The Jefferson Bible
The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth
Extracted Textually from the Gospels
Compiled by Thomas Jefferson
www.angelfire.com...
www.mindfully.org...

Jefferson didn't just reject the Christian belief that the Bible was "the inspired word of God"; he rejected the Christian system too. In Notes on the State of Virginia, he said of this religion, "There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites"

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."
-John Adams

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
-Thomas Jefferson

"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."
-Thomas Jefferson

"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself so that its professors are obliged to call for the help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one."
-Benjamin Franklin

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church. Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."
-Thomas Paine

The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.
-John Adams, U.S. President

This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.
-John Adams, U.S. President

The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
-John Adams, U.S. President

Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and dogmatism cannot confine it.
-John Adams, U.S. President

But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed.
-John Adams, U.S. President

Have you considered that system of holy lies and pious frauds that has raged and triumphed for 1500 years?
-John Adams, U.S. President

Religions are all alike; founded upon fables and mythologies.
-Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President

Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.
-Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President

The Christian God can be easily pictured as virtually the same as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, evil and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed, beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of the people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites.
-Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President

On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind.
-Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President

The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma.
-Abraham Lincoln, U.S. President

During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.
-James Madison, U.S. President

The age of ignorance commenced with the Christian system.
-Thomas Paine, American revolutionary

The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy.".
-George Washington, Revolutionary War General and U.S. President

Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause.
-George Washington, Revolutionary War General and U.S. President

I would say, and not in an offhand manner either, that the men quoted above were in fact our Founding Fathers. Does what they say redeem your statement of "fact" that our founders were all Christians?

Hello my friend,

Thank you for an interesting thread.

If a Christian is one who understands Christ's teachings and lives by his commandments, then they would not wish to be called a Patriot. They would find this to be the greatest insult to their conscience and would work that much more to prove the accuser wrong in their accusation while forgiving them their wrongful judgement.

A Patriot is one who loves his country. What is a country but a man made label, a boundary which divides mankind by imaginary borders. This is totally contradictory to Christ's message and insulting to his sacrifice which he made for ALL mankind. If one truly understood Christ's message, they would embrace the whole world in love and forgiveness. If the earth was meant to have borders to keep mankind separate, it would have them naturally, and they would be such that no man could overcome to mix with others.

Why confuse Christ's message and dishonor his sacrifice? It is so simple, a child can understand it.

Love God (this whole existence) with all your being, and your neighbor (your Brothers and Sisters) as yourself.

I am NOT a Patriot.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by brokedown


Your wrong. Plain and simple.

The founding fathers of AMerica went to church less often and believed that organized religion was a bane on society. Jefferson even wrote his own bible, removing anything that was thought miraculous from the king james bible and called it The Life and Moral Teachings of Jesus of Nazereth.

Further more, the religious beliefs of our first president are still highly debated among historians. Was he a practicing Anglican or Episcopalian was a he a Theist? Washington has left little documentation of his religious faith, but knowing what we know about other men of his time, I highly doubt he spent much time sitting on a bench in church.

Franklin started out as an Episcopalian but later in life considered himself a Diest. Something that no christian I know would agree with in terms of their faith.

Here is another document that seems to have been fairly well researched, but I can't attest to to it's accuaracy. The author seems to have good credentials though. Religious Affiliations of America's Founders

One thing is quite obvious, they were not all christian. I would consider them all to be men of science who had spiritual inspirations, but they certainly were not hardcore with religion. Hell Franklin had two kids with a woman he wasn't married to, and was rumored to have had another one out of wed-lock.... Doesn't sound like your devout religious type now eh?

reply to post by autowrench


You beat me to it!

reply to post by hotbakedtater

IMO, a TRUE patriot would protest this bride of Frankenstein marriage between religion and state!

How is your statement any better than the original statement???


Aren't we all True Scotsman...ummm...I mean Patriots???

Its interesting how people talk about "Christs teachings" yet theres so little actually writen about them.

Christ taught meditation, yet you have to really dig to find that fact. No christian church teaches that which i find rather sad. Instead they teach you that you have to give your money to them, pray in large buildings which have nothing to do with God, worship in front of a cross which is laughable! To top it off they pray to their god in large audiences which is completely contradictary to was in said in their own book.

Considering Christ wasn't christian to begin with im amazed how many people believe so strongly in a book thats been re-writen over and over to suite whatever agenda was on the menu at the time.

Originally posted by Akragon
Its interesting how people talk about "Christs teachings" yet theres so little actually writen about them.

Christ taught meditation, yet you have to really dig to find that fact. No christian church teaches that which i find rather sad. Instead they teach you that you have to give your money to them, pray in large buildings which have nothing to do with God, worship in front of a cross which is laughable! To top it off they pray to their god in large audiences which is completely contradictary to was in said in their own book.

Considering Christ wasn't christian to begin with im amazed how many people believe so strongly in a book thats been re-writen over and over to suite whatever agenda was on the menu at the time.

The reason why there is so little written about them is because his teachings were not meant to be written. They are better taught by doing, than reading. They were put to writing as men drifted from the original message and sought to control it. The truth is still there if you, as you say, "dig for it".

Now once you find it my friend, do you plan to apply it?

If so, then demonstrate his teachings with your actions and the love of Christ will live again through you.

With Love,

Your Brother

Actually i've found "it" many years ago and do apply it to every day life. Unfortunatly what i've learned had little to do with what you'll read in the bibles... Its more like simple logic. Your heart will guide you if you understand the basics, but without those basics most end up listening to whats preached to them as opposed to what you can find out for yourself. Thus most end up in churches and understanding little about God or existance in general.

Just because these so called "ministers" have read their bible over and over doesn't mean they understand or even know God. What could be worst then learning about God from someone that doesn't actually know God.

The blind leading the blind...

Originally posted by Akragon
Actually i've found "it" many years ago and do apply it to every day life. Unfortunatly what i've learned had little to do with what you'll read in the bibles... Its more like simple logic. Your heart will guide you if you understand the basics, but without those basics most end up listening to whats preached to them as opposed to what you can find out for yourself. Thus most end up in churches and understanding little about God or existance in general.

Just because these so called "ministers" have read their bible over and over doesn't mean they understand or even know God. What could be worst then learning about God from someone that doesn't actually know God.

My friend,

Words fail to convey whether one has found "it" or not. However, if you observe one's actions amongst his Brothers and Sisters, those who have found "it" are easily identified.

How? Others around them will be brought up, not torn down.

I'll keep watching.

Judge not, Love all, be at peace

With Love,

Your Brother

You can not be a patriot and believe in Lucifer. Lucifer did make this planet . This planet was made of a caring God, in his image, not a wilted world of witches, voo doo queens...Kaballaists believing in a greater LIGHT..,,the light of Lucifer

I ask FAKE christians who is JABULON ???

Most presidents were freemasons..

It is within nobodys authority to answer that question, also, there is no answer.

Let me see what i can do ??



Jabulon, sir, is a very strange god. He is supposed to be the leader of the Chitauli. He is a god, to my great surprise, which I find certain groups of White people, especially, worshipping. We have known about Jabulon for many, many centuries, we Black people. But I am surprised that there are White people who worship this god, and these people, amongst them are people whom many have blamed for all the things that have happened on this Earth, namely, the Freemason people. We believe that Jabulon is the leader of the Chitauli. He is the Old One. And one of his names, in the African language, sir, is Umbaba-Samahongo-'the lord king, the great father of the terrible eyes'-because we believe that Jabulon has got one eye which, if he opens it, you die if he looks at you.
It is said, sir, the Umbaba ran away from an eastern land during a power struggle with one of his sons, and he took refuge in Central Africa, where he hides in a cave, deep underground. And it is an amazing thing, sir-it is said that under the Mountains of the Moon in Zaire is this great city of copper, of many thousands of shining buildings. There dwells the god Umbaba or Jabulon. And this god is waiting for the day when the surface of the Earth will be cleared of human beings so that he, and his children, the Chitauli, can come out and enjoy the heat of the Sun.
He is the chief of the Chitauli. And, like Satan, he lives in a house underground where great fires are always lighted, to keep him warm. Because, we are told, that after the great war they fought with God, they became cold in their blood and they cannot stand freezing weather, which is why they require human blood, and also they require fire always to be kept working where they are. [Interview] CREDO MUTWA On Alien Abduction & Reptilians

"In the ritual of exaltation, the name of the Great Architect of the Universe is revealed as JAH-BUL-ON......BUL = Baal, the ancient Canaanite fertility god associated with 'licentious rites of imitative magic'. .....Baal, of course, was the 'false god' with whom Jahweh competed for the allegiance of the Israelites in the Old Testament. But more recently, within a hundred years of the creation of the Freemason's God, the sixteenth-century demonologist John Weir identified Baal as a devil. This grotesque manifestation of evil had the body of a spider and three heads - those of a man, a toad and a cat. A description of Baal to be found in de Plancy's Dictionary of Witchcraft is particularly apposite when considered in the light of the secretive and deceptive nature of Freemasonry: his voice was raucous, and he taught his followers guile, cunning and the ability to become invisible

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reply to post by hotbakedtater


Gadzooks! I read the thread title under Recent Posts and threw up in my mouth a little, before wondering why I would bother when this sorta uneducated ideology is typical. So I came here to "troll" like a thread's never been "trolled" before, only to be met by the OP, one of my faves, HBT! And, of course, she's of the right mind, so I'm good. Thanks. All my best.