True Patriots Are Christians

reply to post by awake_and_aware


What is *facepalm*?

reply to post by lewman


So not owning a passport constitutes ignorance of world affairs? How do you know this anyways, most people I know have a passport, far from 20% at least.

reply to post by Unilluminist


I am a secular atheist humanist.

I agree with you mostly, except the fact that i (or we) support the New World Order. The current new world order, does not represent you, me, or anyone else reading this caption. Now it is likely that a world system would be the best solution for when we finally grow up , shed our lugubrious religious convictions, and finally decide to put the word 'human' into the word 'humanity', or moral into morality, or social into society.

However, statism is dying, and we are watching it unfold before our very eyes.

www.youtube.com...

A world system, which represents the people, ALL people as a whole would be ideal, as now since science reason and technology has finally broken through the shackles of religion, the world is finally ready to enter a new enlightened age, and a better world for all. ( i guess the venus project would be the nearest example) A global system based on philosophy, science and reason would be ideal. however this is still a big step, for we are only now seeing the shedding of the old world belief system, religions are just beginning to fail, and the economic and political ideologies are now falling apart.

Originally posted by Mike.Ockizard
reply to post by hotbakedtater

 

the american ideals include things like "in god we trust", "one nation under god" and other references to god. so to be patriotic and partake in the american rituals, you must acknowledge god. i think this means in america you can be patriotic while being a christian, jew or other denomination that acknowledges god. if you are an athiest tho, your screwed.

It is true that there are references to god embedded in American culture, however most of us that don't believe in him don't consider this to really be too big of a deal, let people have their beliefs. Those atheists that really care about it will just substitute other words, but by no means do I believe you have to be a Christian to be a patriot, I am living proof. The presence of religion in the education system is hotly debated though, seeing as children are more easily influenced.

Originally posted by D377MC
What this means is that this thread is pointless until we actually sit down and define:

a. Christian
b. Patriot

I would have to say that a vague definition of a Christian would be in order, since there are so many different sects that have both small and larges differences in view, I guess any believer in Jesus and the Christian God. I don't really know about Catholics, I guess they would be in there too? When debating with an atheists or other religions they would probably be on the same side.

Patriot has already been defined by someone earlier, basically just anyone who loves and supports their country to varying degrees.

If being christien makes me a true patriot than shoot me in the head. I have renounced my christianity a long time ago when I first heard of the stories of abuse. I refuse to beieve any religion who's leaders sexualy, mentaly and physicaly abuse it's followers. I'm talking to all christians here. Follow your religion but do not be led it's leader. Practice and preach what you believe if you want but do so with respect for yourself and others. Some religious people I know judge me because I have renounced religion and a whole lot more judge because they think their religion is how it should be...doesn't your religion say "judge not lest ye be judged"

reply to post by RSF77


Jumping on this topic as well, Lewman. 80% of Americans (never actually heard that stat before, might be right, might be wrong) don't own a passport because we're bordered by Mexico and Canada. That's it.

I personally don't have the need or the funding to travel across oceans, but I read/watch the hell out of mainstream and alternative news, just to keep up on current events. Like RS said, not owning a passport is not indicative of ignorance. Now, saying that if one doesn't own a passport then they're ignorant....that sounds pretty ignorant to me...

Originally posted by Equinox99
She was stating it from a statistical point of view, which should be close to the correct amount. There are more Christians in the US so there are more Christian patriots than every other belief system individually.

...i said purty much the same thing back on page 5 but no one noticed - because- as usual, ranting and raving while beating a dead horse is more fun...

...btw, i agree with the rest of your post too - but - will add that the author of the op could have and should have started this thread without dragging beth through the mud...

reply to post by RSF77


the stat is from 2006 in a book on macro econoics that i cant find or remember the name of but i googled a few key words and many places have the number as 85%.
i would think about this for a while, there are many social groupings etc... and if you are intelligent then you will mingle around with atleast educated people and the fact that you are on this website means that you have must have a relatively open mind and therefore i would assume that you and yoiur friends would have some interest in other countries and even in travelling to them so maybe your surroundings are not the best way to disprove other peoples statements however bold they may seem.

people forget that what they know around them is not exactly the bigger picture

I was once a member of a Christian forum that dealt in survival/self sufficiency, and I can say now I do not think most Christians are "patriots".. I hear them say over and over that Islam is not a religion of peace (which it isn't) but yet these same people keep saying "we should turn Iraq/Afgan into a sheet of glass" as in nuke them. So I pop a reply saying, well do you realize that 95% of the casualties would be civilians? And they say oh well, that's war, and these "civilians" should not help the enemy, or they should live somewhere else. I think the countries that don't get involved in BS wars are true patriots. The Christian faith has account for more death and war than any other. Plain and simply put, they are hipocrits. Not all of them, but seems most of the diehard ones are. I was since banned from that forum because I questioned Christianity. Funny how they speak of tolerance, but not if you question them!


Deebo

reply to post by Strya


most people are ignorant in fact everyone is to some degree but when you watch the news you are watching from someone elses perspective and its the same when reading a book etc... but i would argue that most christians are ignorant to science, that is if they believe what is written in the bible and that many evolutionists and other scientists in other fields are ignorant towards believing a very old book of short stories that has no proof whatsover.

Originally posted by lewman

 

the stat is from 2006 in a book on macro econoics that i cant find or remember the name of but i googled a few key words and many places have the number as 85%.
i would think about this for a while, there are many social groupings etc... and if you are intelligent then you will mingle around with atleast educated people and the fact that you are on this website means that you have must have a relatively open mind and therefore i would assume that you and yoiur friends would have some interest in other countries and even in travelling to them so maybe your surroundings are not the best way to disprove other peoples statements however bold they may seem.

people forget that what they know around them is not exactly the bigger picture

I was never trying to disprove it I just asked where you got your information, you jumped to that conclusion yourself. I can see that, there are many Americans that do not care about world affairs or traveling, though the ones that do concern themselves with dealings in other countries are not ignorant of them at all, US soldiers are required to own passports of course and the military encourages knowledge of other countries. Some countries actually limit the usage of their citizens passports, the US is not one of them. Did your economics studies tell you how many people in countries other than America have passports as well? Like I said in a previous post the American people are a collection of many different types of individuals. Ironically, It seems you aren't really concerned with America at all really except for the fact that you think we are arrogant and ignorant of other countries. Tell me, since you have opinions on us Americans, how much do you really know about us?

Regardless, not owning a passport means nothing about how much a person knows about what is happening in the world, with media and the internet any 15 year old can type in a few words and act like he knows what he is talking about. Also, just because someone could care less about what is happening to the rest of the world does not mean he/she is not a patriot of their country. Your unbacked, unrealistic statements and opinion of my country do not constitute any 'bigger picture' for me and I doubt you even know what your talking about, rather you would just cherry pick random arguments against Americans.

Are you a Christian? Are you a patriot? All I can see that you have posted has to do with your opinions on America, there are other threads for that.

I am more concerned about being a true Christian than being a patriot.


Being a patriot does not always make one a good Christian, being a Christian does not make one a good patriot either. They are two different things in most points.

Raist

reply to post by hotbakedtater

Patriotism = love for your country.
Religion = faith is a higher power, usually of supernatural or divine origin.

One can be a patriot while being completely free of religion. One can be religious (e.g. a Christian) while being completely free of active participation in the government, or without thoughts about the country in general, OR while not liking the country at all.

If a person is a Christian (or whatever religion) and happens to be a staunch patriot, well, that's a personal choice. You can be one without being the other. You can be both. You can be neither.

Not all patriots are Christians. Not all Christians are patriots.

Therefore, I disagree that "true" patriots are Christians. Christianity doesn't necessarily affect one's love for one's country. In fact, I imagine (and am CERTAIN) there are folks out there who are not patriots and dislike the country, yet they are Christians. Reverse that, and I imagine (and am CERTAIN) there are folks out there who are VERY patriotic and are NOT Christians. Wiccans, Hindus, Bhuddists, Jews, Shintos, Confucians, Raelyians (sp), Muslims, et. al. (and others).

You see, America is the biggest mixing pot on the planet. There is diversity here of EVERY kind. The strongest materials are the ones made up of layers of sub-materials with different properties (layers of strong, flexible, bendable, rigid... you get the idea). Our DIVERSITY makes us stronger. The healthiest dogs are mutts. The sickly ones are usually pure breeds. The best buffets are the ones that are WELL-STOCKED with all manner of foods. Even "Chinese" buffets (most) now include pizza (Italian), French fries ("French, haha), and Buffalo wings (New York). --And more.

We have to see that "true" anythings are independent of race, creed, culture and religion. What makes you a true patriot? Your HEART. All of our hearts pump RED blood, HUMAN blood... PATRIOTIC blood.

Well, maybe all except for the reptiallian global elite, alien hybrid super-soldiers, genetically manipulated clone super-animals-chimeras, lawyers and BANKERS. Bankers bleed GREEN.

ADDITIONAL COMMENT ON BANKERS: I bet that when bankers die and are embalmed, the green blood is collected and used to produce the green ink used in currency production. After stealing so much money from the masses, I imagine it's hard to sleep unless they forfeit most, if not all, of their humanity.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


First, the United States Constitution does not say 'Separation of Church and State'...

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances..

What its says is that congress cannot make a law in which forces people to practice (or to forbid people from practicing) religion. Period. It says nothing in regards to a separation of church and state, which accompanies the creation of laws based upon an individual's morals (religious and/or family morals).

Second, even though I am a Christian, I don't think it is a requirement in order to be a patriot.

Originally posted by masqua
Are only Americans patriots?

Can athiest Chinese nationals be patriots too?

I am not so sure anymore, I believe yes, they can, most likely are, but where in ones heart do true loyalties lie.

As far as conspiracy theories, Christians started many.

The conspiracies about the Vatican, Masons, NWO, Illuminati, I heard first come from Christian preachers, years ago ,many years ago.

reply to post by GhostLancer

You see, America is the biggest mixing pot on the planet.

Yes, it is but originally most were European and Christian,

I think that melting pot is about to boil over.

Originally posted by Pervius
True Patriots are not Christians.

Our Navy can't afford to man it's ships. So they are making cuts and cuts and even more cuts to our military.

Maybe if we cut the Chaplains we'd be able to man our Navy's ships. Christians won't let Chaplains be cut from our military, so in essence they are decreasing our Defense Capability.

Non-Patriots. There's no reason Chaplains-religious folk should be wearing a military uniform in todays world. Maybe if our economy was in good condition and we could afford people in our military....but we can't.

Chaplains help out the religious soldiers whose consciences are shaken by the horrors of war. They've been in the military for over a thousand years. Trust me, Chaplains aren't even a dent in our defence (offence) budget, neither is a soldier's wages. The guns that soldiers wield are several thousand dollars more expensive than they are and Chaplains are non-combatants (no 4 digit assault rifle). Oh, and those bombs we give out like candy each cost about the upkeep of a platoon

reply to post by Section31


Man I hate literalism, especially the comment that the Constitution does not have the phrase "separation of chruch and state." The Constitution does not say many things word for word; that in no way means something is necessarily condoned, permitted or said to be a right or not. In any event, if only the literal words mattered you'd need no courts. Of course, you'd have to not only stop technology, but you'd have to revert 100% to only those technologies and things commonly available at the time the document was written.

Exercise some common sense and logic. Sadly, neither of those are American traits anymore and we can thank Evangelicalism for our stunning explosion of literalism and ignorance in this country.

This thread hsa started to go off on some tangents that don't make a lot of sense. I ask the OP to clarify what he is looking to get at? When you ask a question, you usually think of some of the answers you may get back, what did the OP think was going to happen here?

When a OP does not respond to questions is when I think they just post something to "rock the boat"

Originally posted by pajoly
reply to post by Section31

 

Man I hate literalism, especially the comment that the Constitution does not have the phrase "separation of chruch and state." The Constitution does not say many things word for word; that in no way means something is necessarily condoned, permitted or said to be a right or not. In any event, if only the literal words mattered you'd need no courts. Of course, you'd have to not only stop technology, but you'd have to revert 100% to only those technologies and things commonly available at the time the document was written.

Exercise some common sense and logic. Sadly, neither of those are American traits anymore and we can thank Evangelicalism for our stunning explosion of literalism and ignorance in this country.

Man I hate it when people load the language to give innocent words dirty meanings. Evangelism is the proselytizing of religion, it is not a bunch of inbred ignorant morons holding up "God hates fags" signs. Not all evangelists are theologically ignorant, historically indifferent, and filled with rage. These Bible-thumping "evangelicals" are not having a population explosion, they've always been here and they've always had a right to their views, because that is the American way. The "evangelicals" you hate are 90% Baptists, so why don't you direct your hate toward them instead of making a blanket statement about all Christians who wish to share the word.