Having trouble with judgemental attitude

Hello everyone. As of the past year or so, I have been getting extremely spiritual, and awakened, if you will. I have gone from being an atheist (but always with a good heart) to definitely knowing our soul lives on, and having out of body experiences through meditation.

I have been reading alot about Buddhism and Hindu religion, and also New Age stuff. From what I have read, those who visited (or were summoned to) the Akashic Records with "guides" mention how the "guides" were very non-judgmental even if viewing an unsavory memory.

And alot of what I have read points to evolved souls being sort of "neutral", and not judging people and loving everyone despite their flaws. To have infinite patience and generousity, for the knowing that none of this may be "real".

A man I met tried to teach me this concept over the summer, and I asked him about Hitler, and how can you reconcile being non-judgmental of him. His reply was that he was human, and in being human, he was not good, not bad, not evil, not a hero. He just was. And that he has a place in the world, because without a Hitler there cannot be a Mother Theresa.

But Im having real problems with this. I cannot make myself buy this concept fully....it just seems so against my character to be so indifferent towards evil. Does anyone have any helpful thoughts for me? I guess I should just go meditate on it huh?

If your having a problem between one realization and another, you may have missed something in between. IMHO the realization to someones being is a long and hard road, a basis of where you can actually put yourself in another's shoes, and see what they may have meant, even if you are totally against it.

Our thoughts, heart, and intentions have different meanings, thats what makes us diverse. The difference is, that although we know this we claim to know the objective, this is where we are at a loss. We never know what another's thinking. We may claim to, or even be close, but to fully be aware, we do not have the ability.

So we live by assumptions, possibility, even wild accusations. This does not bring us any closer to the actual thoughts of someone that has or can change his-tory. When we can come to this in our evolution, will be the time that things can change.

Peace, NRE.

The non judgement crowd have it wrong in my opinion. We judge every day we have to it is the nature of our existence. The middle way is not non judgement it is right or correct judgement. Your intuition on Hitler is correct don't go against it. What Hitler and Stalin and others did was evil and should be judged as evil. They may have a chance to work out thier karma in a future round of the Universe but the murder of millions of human beings will not go unnoticed by the Lords of Karma.

Your soul is speaking to you follow the highest you know and don't take anyone word for it until you confirm it within yourself. Those that claim they have let go of judgement are in illusion and denying thier own souls. The ancient wisdom teaches to be careful not to judge wrongly or unrighteously. But that has morphed into non- judgement over time and the true concept has been lost and is now being rediscovered so to speak.

A good book on this I recommend is Called " The Lost Key of the Buddha" You might want to get a copy and read it.

I once went to my mother, a person who, at 39 realized she had some real problems, and so she went into therapy for herself, then eventually became a therapist as well as one of the first women ordained ministers in Canada, and spent the rest of her life until her passing at age 63, in 1998 or was it 99.., helping people. Anyway, as you can tell, she meant a lot to me, and I'm very proud of her, Kay her name was - and I said to her, in real anguish, about my judgemental tendancies "Mom, I just can't DO this anymore, this judgmentalism I have towards people, it's gotten so bad now that I can judge a person, or think I can, at 200 feet away (or more!), and I don't even KNOW these people, and it's killing me, please help me to get over this!" and so she just get's all compassionate (her secret to being a helpful therapist) and looks at me and then exclaims in a soft innocent sounding voice "Why Bob, didn't you know that all judgement is nothing but a judgement about yourself, that it has very little if nothing at all to do with the other person", as if this is the most natural and self evident thing in the world! This drove me nuts, for quite some time as you might imagine, but it was so helpful.
M. Scott Peck MD, wrote in "The Road Less Travelled, a New Psychology of Love, Traditional Values and Spiritual Growth" that "we are all of us mentally ill, to a greater or lessor degree, lacking in perfect mental health and well being", and some are just sicker than others.
AA (alchoholics anonymous) has a prayer, when we enounter people who provoke a strong judgemental reaction in us "this is a sick person, God save me from being angry, let thy will, not mine, be done". And some, like Hitler are or were VERY sick. Peck also wrote another book called "People of the Lie" in which be posits the idea that human evil is a sickness.
It's not an absolute thing, functioning on some sort of cosmic good/evil duality ie: where we "need" Hitlers so that Mother Theresas can exist, that's absurd and bad Buddhist theology, and represents a complete misunderstanding of karma.
It is in our capacity and willingness to recognize that "life is sorrowful", that we may find the joy on the other side of sorrow and suffering sin and evil.
Thus, reacting in judgement towards anyone, in the form of a condemnation, does not serve the cause of love, and any good we might try to do simply to help balance the scale is work spent in vain. The sickness of evil can never justify the good, that's dualistic thinking.
Hitler represents self will and hatred run riot on a grand scale, but there were forces at work in the world which generated Hitler as a possibility.
And of late we've kind of seen the re-emergence of a type of ghost of Hitler, for a brief period, by the "White Hatted Guys" of all things, another duality, projected against the evil without, fighting evil with evil.
This can never work.

The resolution I think resides in our capacity to hate evil so much, that we are willing to become the solution to the problem of evil.

Part of the problem we have in the world, is the failure to recognize, at the most fundamental level, that we are either part of the problem or, part of the solution, and judging AGAINST evil, isn't the least bit helpful.

"Resist not evil" said Jesus, and he of course did not mean to embrace it, or permit it or condone it, not in the least, but to recognize, that which we resist, persists, and we are WAY more "at cause" in the whole sphere of karma than we might realize.

We all contributed to, and fostered the rise of Hitler, at some level. But in the words of Winston Churchill, that war was, like most wars, an "unneccessary war".

What gives me hope, and bright optimism, in the face of the whole damn mess we're in, is that "the idea" is now becoming dominant, something that even the " evil PTB" cannot escape from, anymore, a new light of awareness is beginning to shine, both within and without, scanning.

"Let vengeance be mine sayeth the Lord"

We have to let this go, to be free and at cause in something helpful, in whatever way however big or small, however fast or slow.

There's another way, and it takes a lot of courage, but it's totally worth it. Jesus understood it perfectly.

"Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you"

now THAT is where the rubber REALLY hits the road with torque and goes somewhere fast and far and wide.

if only we had access to all his teachings wherein he described the process of precisely HOW to do this, but maybe it's just like I said, seeing how to be somewhat at cause in the end of evil, by being at cause in the beginning of love, even in the face of the worst evil.

it's all part of the Great Work of the Ages, and this generation is up for the task and if not this one, the next or the next, but the evil is a house divided which cannot stand, and all suffering eventually leads to conscious suffering, unravelling itself in the process.

so it would seem that the problem is that we're not quite ready to give up all evil yet, until we've had ENOUGH!

So when is enough enough? That's the question, and of course, if we want to change the world, then we must be that very change we seek outwardly.

So in short, this type of judgementalism, and I've been there done that too, and still do, from time to time, although much much less than I used to, is ineffectual and not the least bit helpful, even part of the very same sickness, albeit on a much smaller scale..

P.S. The quote in my signature about sinners and saints I also got from her, and she became a real and authentic saint in her later years, a master.

But she said one thing I still can't quite grasp, and that was "sin with courage". I think it means something akin to self acceptance, and that we are still a work in progress, and not to get locked up in perfectionism, something like that.

"...I have been getting extremely spiritual, and awakened, if you will....."
Meh.

Our most "evil" is enemy we are taught to hate. Never are we taught to have the tendencies to become such a person. So we judge. If we were to enter our true nature it would scare most of us. We have no control over what we think is the "inner"self.
We live within others, people we wish to be, idolize, and want to conform to. Never realizing that their path has been directional towards them, their paths have been chosen.We seek glamor, and glitz. Only when someone we idolized falls, that we see the other side. Our lives are preconceived. We chose by either heartbreak or happiness where we end up.
We have a choice to make our own paths. If your happy about who you are, both lives, good and bad made you what you are, be happy, it all could have been bad.

Peace, NRE.

Of course human beings are judgemental of others. All we do all day long is judge things - people, places, situations, we make instant judgements about a lot of things.

To judge is to use one's own perception as you know it. It is a natural daily function of the human psyche and it is intrinsic to survival. Or what some would refer to as making sound decisions.

You will never stop humans from judging other people. It is simply what we do. To be critical or non critical while judging is going to be based on your personality and your value system.


So to not judge, as you suggest, would be highly counter productive to a rational existence.

Forget the new age bunk and just trust your instincts. You have everything you need to tell you what is right and wrong. Listen to it.

Oh and my mom also pointed out the difference, between judgementalism, and evaluation. She said there is nothing wrong with evaluating, but that judging is very hurtful, to ourselves. To evaluate, is simply to see clearly the motives and behavior of another person, but to JUDGE them, is to assign a greater than or less than worthiness. Evaluating is ok, judging, is not.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


You bring up some good points however a couple I take issue with are; Duality for one thing. it is a fact of life in the worlds of form. There is no escaping it while we are here in this life, it may be an illusion in the grand scheme of things but for now it is our reality. And if I judge the acts of Hitler as evil I am not judging myself I am observing the actions of another and correctly judging them. There is right judgement and wrong judgement. Like don't judge a book by its cover, or a person you don't know anything about by thier looks, that would be wrong judgement. But if someone heinously murders someone there is nothing wrong with judging that as evil because it is. We make hundreds of judgements a day from what to wear to weather or not we will be nice to the person at the coffee shop or depending on our position whether we will put peoples lives at risk or help thousands, it is the nature of our lives there is no escaping it.

The Idea we shouldn't judge at all has crept into philosophical and spiritual thought over time and it is not correct one can see by just looking at the world around them and within...

reply to post by hawkiye


I now leave it to God as the absolute objective truth, to judge, and sometimes I will even pray for the evildoers. Today I prayed for Bernie Madoff over the karmic tragedy of the suicide of his son on the 2nd year anniversary of his incarcaration. I also prayed recently for that Canadian military guy who's got nailed for two totally uncessary murders of two innocent women. While everyone else was condemning I tried to find it in my heart to the the the one who sent a prayer his way.
I spent YEARS railing against the evils of the Bush/Cheney administration. Now I am starting to find it in my heart to pray for Dick Cheney, and that's not so easy for me let me tell you!
It's vitally important work, this getting out of judgementalism against the evils of the other guy and "the world", and no one said it would be easy. It's simple, but not easy.

Think of the snake and Eden. Adam and Eve were not progressing because they had no freewill. They didn't have the knowledge of evil so they could not commit it. They were perfect and pure, but not by their own choice, instead out of ignorance. They were cast out once they sinned and had the choice to sin. After they were cast out, to be God-like became their choice. In order for good to exist, the choice for bad must exist. Otherwise there would be no way to measure actions and everything would just be.

Being evil isn't "bad" objectively. It is just not constructive on a personal level. Microcosmically, the Hitlers of the world are learning lessons, and providing karmic lessons for those they effect. Macrocosmically, the Hitlers of the world are giving us all the knowledge of evil so we can choose personally to perform good or evil. BTW, feelings of hatred, or opposition to people playing the role of "bad guy" is a performance of evil.

Really, there is SO much evil in our world that we all experience at least trickeled down effects of. Constantly, on a day to day basis, we are making choices that either build us and free us or bind us and retard us.

Really, in order for EVIL to stop, we must embrace the "evil" as our friend. Lucifer, the bringer of light, brings light through darkness. The catalyst. The choice-giver. Of course, my favorite quote applies: "What you resist persists" - CG Jung. The evils in this world will continue on until the "unconditional love" (starting with loving thy enemy) that many speak of is finally solidified.

God bless the Illuminati and the NWO. I speak this from the heart.

You see, its like chess. We couldn't play the game without the opposing color. Within the game, they are our enemy and we are sworn to play against them. Knowing who is behind the opposition, however, is the goal. Behind the opposition is our friend. The Illuminati know this, and watch on as the masses spew hatred at them. They know they only hurt themselves.

reply to post by hawkiye


I've just found, for me, that it's more effective to point ones finger in another direction, and then say there, there is the end of evil.

Originally posted by Reddupo
Really, in order for EVIL to stop, we must embrace the "evil" as our friend. Lucifer, the bringer of light, brings light through darkness. The catalyst. The choice-giver.

No, I have to disagree with this. That's not quite right. There are some who cannot be trusted, and who will always violate the trust when placed in authority. Neither is evil the catalyst or the choice giver. If ever there were such an entity, or fallen creature, power or principality, such a one is the enemy of God and man, the enemy of love, which is the catalyst to creative action in the free domain of limiteless possibility, that is the all-good creation. Again, bad theology. Evil may have had a purpose, to reveal a greater glory, but it's long outlived its usefullness, and its days are numbered. The light is not Luciferian, not Satanic, not evil.

Originally posted by aching_knuckles
I have gone from being an atheist (but always with a good heart) to definitely knowing our soul lives on, and having out of body experiences through meditation.

Just FYI, believing in a soul, the afterlife and OOBEs does not preclude being an atheist. An atheist is simply someone who doesn't believe in God. Belief in a soul, an afterlife and non-physical realms are all compatible to being an atheist.

Does anyone have any helpful thoughts for me?

Your journey is yours alone. I would suggest you read Awareness by Anthony DeMello. Several times.

reply to post by aching_knuckles


I think that the man you met was trying to explain you the following (which I think is a fact):

We can only make moral judgements from human viewpoint; that is, that we can only see the shallow surface of human evaluation of wrong and right.

From the universal perspective, we cannot really say whether Hitler's action were good or bad. It may well be that he taught a valuable lesson or something else which escapes our understanding.

Ultimately, there is no good and evil, there is just action and as such everything merely is. We humans easily resort to moral judgements, yet failing to recognize that all our moral assessments are merely from our perspective. We tend to fall in the pit of human hybris, which is of course merely natural. But those who have transcended human moral evaluations, knows that from the universal point of view, our human values are pretty vain and they are not universal.

-v

I think though it is very easy to pass judgments on people and analyze them, you can't really judge someone accurately 'cos you are not them.
But judging someone as far as lawful deeds are concerned becomes inevitable sometimes for a peaceful society. Not that all laws and decisions made by the authorities are justified, but that's a different topic altogether.

reply to post by aching_knuckles


Small tangental question. But wouldn't true neutrality mean indifference and not love or hate?

If you believe there is a possible separation between good and evil, judging evil as wrong and good as right is natural. On the other hand if you believe evil and good cannot be separated you cannot judge.

Perhaps you do believe good and evil are separate in your heart of hearts.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by hawkiye

 

I now leave it to God as the absolute objective truth, to judge, and sometimes I will even pray for the evildoers. Today I prayed for Bernie Madoff over the karmic tragedy of the suicide of his son on the 2nd year anniversary of his incarcaration. I also prayed recently for that Canadian military guy who's got nailed for two totally uncessary murders of two innocent women. While everyone else was condemning I tried to find it in my heart to the the the one who sent a prayer his way.
I spent YEARS railing against the evils of the Bush/Cheney administration. Now I am starting to find it in my heart to pray for Dick Cheney, and that's not so easy for me let me tell you!
It's vitally important work, this getting out of judgementalism against the evils of the other guy and "the world", and no one said it would be easy. It's simple, but not easy.

It's fine to pray for them but that does not take away judgement. You are not out of judgement you already admitted they are evil and that is a correct judgement. There is no escaping judgement it is applying it Correctly that makes the difference. Hitler is easy to judge because there is no question he committed horrendous evil. He will get his just rewards eventfully for the universe returns everything you send out to you. I do not dwell on the past evil deeds of others because i know they will return to the sender. But i don't try to say they are not good or evil they just are. If someone is harming your family do you say they are not good or evil they just are? Or do you immediately judge them as evil and defend your family? Hence correct judgement there is no need to try and avoid it, it is wrong judgement we want to get out of not judging all together.

Hello my friend,

I find it easy to not judge people by remembering that we are all children, babies really. Could you pass judgement on a baby?

What separates us from babies is we have been here longer and experienced more. Those experiences have made us who we are. If we have experienced a lot of pain, then we demonstrate a lot of pain onto others. We return to others what we experience in life. If you understand this, then you can take control over the situation. You cease to allow the experiences dictate what you give to others and focus instead on what you can give to them to change their own perception, and thus what they express to others.

Here is a link that may help you to see from my perspective.

Thread

When I see someone behaving in a way which is harmful to others, I KNOW it is because they themselves are hurting. Thus, what is needed is healing, not judging.

With Love,

Your Brother