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Walkom: Why Ottawa's new border scheme is such a loser

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posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 05:46 PM
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So basically theyre planning on coming out with what is close to Police State North American Union, revealing this "oneness" plan? And in Jan of all dates, after all 10 11 11 is the date we've all read for the big events. So are they planning 01 11 11 to start announcing North American Union and Nwo and their planned wars? I added the war part because that is what I feel they'll be trying to do soon, this year is critical.

My message to any Canadian politicians thinking of endorsing this is to drive across that border and seek refuge as a US supporter citizen, cause you're NOT welcome in Canada with that attitude. We're not complying.
edit on 11-12-2010 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 05:47 PM
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Will Canadian military eventually come under the jurisdiction of the Pentagon for convenience in responding to any future threats that are found?


I've said this many times on ATS for good reason (and I've been taught it many times in university for good reason): NORAD is supposed to be joint US and Canadian, but NORAD in recent years has had its command handed over to NORTHCOM, which is in the Pentagon.

TSA agents telling us what to do? Screw that noise. The moment American "security" confronts a Canadian citizen in Canada is when Canadians start mobilizing in numbers unprecedented by both the Americans and Canadian government.

Americans can take their manifest destiny and shove it right up their ass, which is exactly where the notion came from in the first place. There is no way that Canadians will allow this to happen, regardless of whatever useless and arbitrary laws are employed on us.



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 05:50 PM
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Wow... I am kind of split on this.

If we could get rid of the business as usual government here in the States I could see this being beneficial to both countries. I think we are all headed down a road of "consolidation" for lack of a better term. We are seeing countries hiting the edge of the resource threshhold, both from nature and man made.

Problems we see today are no longer isolated to just one country. Scientific progress is moving from individual nations to combined efforts. Hell the technology needed to solve the worlds problems will not be solved by only one country.

Streamlining immigration procedures between the US and Canada is a logical step. Once you get into one of the countries its easy enough to cross the border wihtout hassle (I am referring to low end border crossings where there is no monitoring).

As far as comments go about Military, people do realize its already setup like that right? NORAD is a joint command center that has Canadian military presence in a unified chain of command. Our 2 airforces constantly protect each others borders, and our intelligence services are pretty much intertwined with Canadas.

I do see the other side of the coin, especially with the way the US Government has behaved. I think long term the benefeits could outweigh any objections raised, and I think its a natural progression of the way the world is heading.

I dont think the proposal being suggested is being portrayed correctly. The streamlining of policies etc does not mean the TSA will oversee anthing, or even be involved in Canadian territory., and vice versa, at least not to the extent people are suggesting. This proposal has been looked for many decades now, so its nothing new either.

I think if we can get our Government under control, and get our house in order,this could be a good thing.



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 06:40 PM
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I used to be against all of this NAU stuff but now I think it would be for the best

With superpowers like China and Russia we need to merge in order to be the proclaimed number one again.

We do not have to join cultures or anything, thats what freedom is about, everyone celebrates there own ideas and religions but does not push it on others

Making a new currency will help Canada's manufacturing industries. Currently our high dollar makes it too expensive to stay competitive in a world economy



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by ADUB77
I used to be against all of this NAU stuff but now I think it would be for the best


You first...I'll sit that one out.



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 07:32 PM
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Ya?You think it might be a good thing eh?
What about the poor americaans?What if they cant handle the full bodied flavour and crisp alchohol content of our beer?
Alright, if you can chug this, well let you be a canadian.....glug glug glug....gasp....



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 07:43 PM
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This is sensationalized ATS style. The reality is that if the US dictates security measures Canada will follow like the lackey she is. Any opposition will not be tolerated, period. Whether its the TSA or some other group, the same principles will apply. Canada will get TSA style scanning it is just a matter of time. The notion Canadians have to which they believe they are culturally unique is a complete fallacy. Most music, TV, movies, clothing, food has major US influence, not all of it of course. Canada is culturally diverse sure, but she licks the boot heels of the US in more ways than I can count. That said I do cherish my privacy and if it does come down to this I will easily give up border travel, no big deal.

brill
edit on 11-12-2010 by brill because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 07:46 PM
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As a former Ottawatonian this makes me feel sick. I hope Harper quits his job as the lap dog to the USA. The Day Canada becomes a part of the states is the day I move to Ireland. I'm sorry but I will not bow down to the corruption of the states.

No offense America but I like Canada better.



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 08:25 PM
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reply to post by Xiamara
 


Out of curiosity, and with due respect to Canadiens, but why cant you guys make an argument for your country? All the comments I see are lapdog this, lackey that. Has it not occured to any Canadians that if this stuff starts to occur, than maybe Canadian participation and influence could trump plans the US might have?

Canada has a lot of thing Americans admire, including the ability for you guys to deal with government spending a while lot better than we have been. I think the mindset that if something like this occured that the US would become dominate factor is underselling Canadian influence.

Granted the US has some strong points Canada does not have, and Canada has strong points the US does not have. I think if something like this happened it could only enhance the 2 countries.

We are seeing an end to the term Superpower... I think we are moving into an era where the dominace of a few countries is overwith. I think the rise of 2nd/3rd class countries and their influnce is going to reshape the landscape over the next 50 years.

Personally speaking, maybe they can do it better... Either way it should not discount the fact that we all live on the same planet, and we all face the issues together, from plague, to pandemic, to famine, war etc etc. I for one would not mind living in a world where responsible governance is the norm, and countries help each other based on the notion we are all human, instead of doing it as a political bargaining chip.



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 08:47 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


I'm sorry but the American government is just too corrupt. Canada is corrupt enough and would only become more corrupt with the American gov. I don't want to be apart of that. That's my personal choice I don't agree with Americas war policies, environmental policies and my least favorite policy is the don't ask don't tell (stupid in my mind homosexuals are entitled to be who they are) and the policy on gay marriage (let them marry). There isn't any place on earth that is not corrupt and it makes me sad that globally we are all in it for money. If I could afford it I'd live on a private island away from politics and greed but that wont ever happen.

I would never live in the states, and I would never want to be apart of the USA. I don't have a problem with American's just your government and social policy. Canada is the least worst in NA.



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by brill
The notion Canadians have to which they believe they are culturally unique is a complete fallacy.


This is complete BS. I don't know where you are from, but there is the Canada represented on TV, the Canada represented by our pathetic government, and the real Canada that you can only see from living as a Canadian.

And may I remind all of you that Canada is the second largest country on Earth. Each province has a different culture, and while the pussies in Ontario choose to follow the Canadian elite (who are mostly based in Toronto and are tied into the American elite), the rest of Canada is very different. Most Canadians are not interested in the entire nation or the federal government because they will most likely only live in one or a handful of provinces, and focus on life there instead of the whole country.

I grew up in rural, pacific Canada. I know how rural Canadians think, and I know how Western Canadians think as a whole. They care about their lives, their families, their environment. If anything happens that affects their bubbles, then they take action. So Harper can keep selling us out all that he wants, because when it comes down to it, we don't take BS from anyone. If we are forced to change, we will resist. If the Military Act has to be invoked on us (like in 1970s Quebec) then we will resist some more. What will Canadian soldiers do, shoot Canadians? That will be a very serious mistake. The only incident in Canadian modern history that I can recall is when special forces tortured and murdered a native guy in Oka during the early 90s, and that pretty much divided the people from the government entirely.

And for any idiot who thinks US-Canada interoperability is a good idea, then maybe you should learn some Canadian history. Study confederacy, because Canada came together after many decades of war with the Americans in order to avoid assimilation. John A. McDonald was our greatest advocate against any form of assimilation by the Americans, whether it be military, economical or political. Also look up before confederacy, at every instance where we were just piss poor unorganized colonies being invaded by Americans who were obsessed with manifest destiny, believing that it was God's will to conquer territory all the way up to the arctic. American generals, even Washington himself, always believed that we could do nothing to defend ourselves, and were always amazed when we, outnumber 10 to 1, always decimated invasion forces through our vastly superior will, terrain understanding, and guerrilla warfare.

Oh, and don't forget our harsh climate. Just like the Nazis got their ass handed to them by the Russian winter, the Canadian winter always fought with us against American invasion forces. A good example is when the Americans assembled an armada of ships on the St. Lawrence, assuming they could just roll up the river and capture every colony alongside it up to Montreal. Our winter froze the river and their ships and ruined their poor strategy.

But I guess I am ranting by now. I can only do what I can on the internet to educate my Canadian brothers and sisters as to what is really going on here. The Americans need our resources, and so they offer our government (NOT the people) "equal" and "fair" partnerships. There is nothing equal or fair when we are placed into pacts with a country that has ten times our population and industry.

And where is democracy in all of this? When will Canadians get a say or vote as to whether we want or need more interoperability with the Yanks? We won't, unless we push for it like we did with the FTA. We managed to put the FTA to a national vote, where it LOST but that traitor Mulroney pushed it through in his last few days in office anyways via his persuasion over the Senate. Obviously he benefited from it, he is nothing more than a greedy businessman which made him a very good friend to Reagan. Reagan could not help but smile when Mulroney signed over economic control of Canada over to the US. Now Harper signs over Canadian security and sovereignty to Obama, and I have never seen him smile so brightly ever since he took the Presidency of the US.



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
 


I agree with you 99% not all Ontario people are like Toronto... Just the GTA.. Up in northern Ontario its too damn cold to be stuck up, and as someone who grew up in Ottawa we dislike Toronto too.. *cough* leafs suck *cough* Go sens...



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 10:25 PM
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reply to post by Xiamara
 


Yeah... and let's not forget the breadbasket of SW Ontario either. Good farmland and prosperous farms isn't exactly downtown T-dot.

Otherwise, Dimitri is dead on.

Go Leafs



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by masqua
 


I think if the USA wants a piece of Canada take Toronto, its the most Americanized part of Canada and has a bad hockey team.. We still need Quebec for booze they don't ID. They have the magic polar bubble it does not snow in the GTA, it is deflected to other parts of Ontario.



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by Xiamara
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
 


I agree with you 99% not all Ontario people are like Toronto... Just the GTA.. Up in northern Ontario its too damn cold to be stuck up, and as someone who grew up in Ottawa we dislike Toronto too.. *cough* leafs suck *cough* Go sens...


Well I must admit, I have not personally been to Ontario... yet. I will some day, because I will have to if I still pursue federal politics (Ottawa contains all of the federal institutions like the House of Commons and the Senate, and military command). So in the meantime I can only generalize from what I am told Ontario is like from people who are from there.

But like I said, most Canadians do not get to travel and experience most of Canada, so most will not experience Canada as a nation (as opposed to just a province). This is why the elite are so prominent here, because they can afford to go anywhere in Canada. A Liberal MLA explained to me once that some federal politicians do not even have an political education, because in order to lead Canada you need to have experience among all Canadians. Who has to opportunity to be the most experienced in national affairs? Anyone with the money to travel, and most Canadians I know can barely even afford to eat and pay rent.

I wish I could travel Canada, I dream this all the time, but all I can do now is work hard to obtain my political science degree while coming up with the cash to afford a couch to sleep on and some canned food to eat. I can only hope that my country does not shoot itself in the foot some more for the next three years.



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
 


If your going to go to Ontario either go to the GTA for the sites and go knowing that the people are kinda... Well I've been to New york city their about par.. Or go to Ottawa I grew up there and loved it, we are a very small town at heart and the people are very friendly, our bus drivers aren't but they got themselves into that mess... Its really a beautiful place to go, you don't see much politics unless your watching CPAC.



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 10:57 PM
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Originally posted by Xiamara
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
 


If your going to go to Ontario either go to the GTA for the sites and go knowing that the people are kinda... Well I've been to New york city their about par.. Or go to Ottawa I grew up there and loved it, we are a very small town at heart and the people are very friendly, our bus drivers aren't but they got themselves into that mess... Its really a beautiful place to go, you don't see much politics unless your watching CPAC.


CPAC? I would be going to Ottawa to sit in the House of Commons or the Senate and watch Canadian politics in action. Citizens are allowed to attend such things (it is in our constitution), and is basically an experience requirement if you want to be an effective politician.

As for beauty, well, I lived out 20 years in BC. I don't think urban Ontario is going to beat rural BC in terms of beauty.



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
This is complete BS. I don't know where you are from, but there is the Canada represented on TV, the Canada represented by our pathetic government, and the real Canada that you can only see from living as a Canadian.

Yes Canadians are falling over themselves to wait in line for more awe inspiring Canadian movies
TV? Don't even start, the CRTC is a modern oligarchy led by bureaucratic old farts who strain to pee when standing up. As I stated a strong majority of content is heavily US influenced and that exceeds the boundaries of entertainment (if you can even call it that in Canada).


Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
And may I remind all of you that Canada is the second largest country on Earth.


So ?



Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Each province has a different culture, and while the pussies in Ontario choose to follow the Canadian elite (who are mostly based in Toronto and are tied into the American elite), the rest of Canada is very different.
I grew up in rural, pacific Canada. I know how rural Canadians think, and I know how Western Canadians think as a whole.


Lived out west myself for many years, too many smelly hippies and the like to deal with. People out west are different I won't argue that but my point is more directed to Canada in general. I still don't see where we are "that" different from the US.


Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
They care about their lives, their families, their environment. If anything happens that affects their bubbles, then they take action.


That's priceless. The greatest concern to modern Canadians is a $0.10 price jack in their sub-grade coffee via tim hortons. That's about as close to a national tragedy as I've seen. Seriously, Canadians could care less, they lead their lives with the same vision and horse blinders on as their US counterparts.


Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
And for any idiot who thinks US-Canada interoperability is a good idea, then maybe you should learn some Canadian history.

Never once said I agree with interoperability, but that fact remains it is happening and there is little that can or more importantly will be done, prove me wrong here please.


Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
John A. McDonald was our greatest advocate against any form of assimilation by the Americans, whether it be military, economical or political.


And he was also a well known drunk, who cares. That was then this is now. If the US wants Canadian resources it will happen, not saying I agree, but there will be little resistance.

brill



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by brill
Yes Canadians are falling over themselves to wait in line for more awe inspiring Canadian movies
TV? Don't even start, the CRTC is a modern oligarchy led by bureaucratic old farts who strain to pee when standing up. As I stated a strong majority of content is heavily US influenced and that exceeds the boundaries of entertainment (if you can even call it that in Canada).


NAFTA opened up the gates to the US taking over our TV industry. We have what now, 10% Canadian content in the Canadian media (at best)?


Lived out west myself for many years, too many smelly hippies and the like to deal with. People out west are different I won't argue that but my point is more directed to Canada in general. I still don't see where we are "that" different from the US.


You think we are smelly hippies? And we think people to the East are greedy politicians. This is the common misperception of Canadians who live in such a large and diverse country, but who will only experience so much of it and not the whole.


That's priceless. The greatest concern to modern Canadians is a $0.10 price jack in their sub-grade coffee via tim hortons. That's about as close to a national tragedy as I've seen. Seriously, Canadians could care less, they lead their lives with the same vision and horse blinders on as their US counterparts.


That's just a stereotype. I'm not saying Canadian stereotypes are uncommon though, in fact they have way too much influence among peoples' perception of this country.


Never once said I agree with interoperability, but that fact remains it is happening and there is little that can or more importantly will be done, prove me wrong here please.


I did not necessarily say you did agree with it. However, I disagree with your view that we cannot do anything about it, because we can and will. The only reason why I am still in this country is because I have hope for a brighter Canadian future than the country that it is now, ransacked by greedy and out-of-touch pro-American politicians.


And he was also a well known drunk, who cares. That was then this is now. If the US wants Canadian resources it will happen, not saying I agree, but there will be little resistance.


"Those who ignore history, tend to repeat it". There is a reason why Canadian history is important for Canadians to learn and understand. To say that it means nothing is wrong, it has shaped us and we have a duty to maintain the virtues that our country was founded on. If we just sit back and allow the US to hijack us, then we have lost everything, and we are no longer Canada.




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