Why do finds of ancient evidence get buried totally while ridiculously impossible histories get play

Originally posted by Pershing1973
Could just be that our dating process is horrifically wrong?

Good question. The truth is that One Date is No Date.

That's why we are not about to change the story because 'some guy on the net' sez he read something from a hundred years ago that sez he found something strange. Google "Provenience".

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
Hiya Johnny. Hall of Maat is unique in addressing the fringey side of archaeology and anthropology. I'm a member, but way behind the curve of what the regulars know and only posted a couple of times. It's the best source for catching pdfs of interesting research.

There are anomalous sites out there and I'm following the discussion as closely as possible. The Central and North American sites seem to be where the magic is at. Sheguiandah, Topper, Valsequillo and so forth. It's the complexity and nuance that makes it like a Grandmaster chess game...

The 'Hidden Cave' of Nevada has been catching my eye lately. Sure, it's not anomalous, but it's a fascinating 'museum' of human activity that spanned centuries. Reading the various sources and papers is like a history of us and a history of the modern science of archaeology. From face masks to air-con and from teenagers to big budget research.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
There are anomalous sites out there and I'm following the discussion as closely as possible. The Central and North American sites seem to be where the magic is at. Sheguiandah, Topper, Valsequillo and so forth.

Looks like Sheguiandah has been sorted out and Lee was wrong, but as right as he could be using 1950's tools...I'll report back.

Here's another link...

Gallery of Mystery

I was searching for the story of the 100 million ish year old fossilized human finger that was found inthe Canadian Artic.

Lets face it folks, the history of our world is pure bull s...

I've been following these stories my whole life and there are so many out there. Although many conspiracy theories are simply that, theories, in these cases however I have to say it is conspiracy FACT.

There has been intelligent advanced life on this planet for a long time. I do not wish to derail, so I will simply state that I believe these discoveries are hidden because the natural question is what happened?. To allow research opens the door for questions about why society has been reset so many times.

danbones this is just my opinion, but i feel that i am very close to the truth on what i say. the reason why the good finds get buried is that tptb have owned and operated this planet for thousands of years, with all the same planes, aircraft, technology, etc, minus power grids as the power has had to be changed due in part of how every fall of the majority of the populace was killed off. how else do several older and wiser people know that we are in the 4th evolution on earth, why does Egypt have pictures of helicopters etc, because this life has all been played out several times, thus keep the people stupid to not know the truth!

reply to post by Danbones


Thanks for the link OP. S & F. Unfortunatley Americans live in a country where I believe around 50% of us think that the world was created 6,000 years ago and men rode dinosaurs. Makes it tough to have a serious discussion about historical anomalies.

reply to post by [davinci]

I was searching for the story of the 100 million ish year old fossilized human finger that was found inthe Canadian Artic.

I've got one of those, found it whilst laying a few tons of expensive gravel on someone's driveway years back. It looks just like the one on the Creationist websites and even has the discolouration in the centre that they claim is the finger bone.

Maybe it's an anomalous oopart finger bone and maybe it's just a piece of stone? If I can make the effort, I'll take a picture and post it tomorrow.

Originally posted by Danbones
(But because it happened locally, I know of how the dig was quashed and buried at least.)
htteditby]

This thread caught my attention since it happened locally for me as well. I talked to my friend who is an archeologist in the area and this is her reply:

"Tom Lee was the initial archaeologist. It is due to his efforts that the Heritage Act is what it is today, through his efforts to protect sites like Sheg from looters and development. The site brought in Ontarios and some US's top paleobios, archs, glacial experts etc because no one could figure out how old exactly the lithic deposits were- the big question was were the artifacts brought in and deposited by glaciers? I don't remember the reasons surrounding Lees dismissal, but the site was re-opened in the early 1990s for further investigation. Paleo-Indian sites, such as this, are usually only marked by stone tools, and debris associated in their manufacture. The Lorraine quartzite, such as found here, was highly sought after during Paleo times, ca. 10 000BC. It was tundra like conditions, and the people likely traveled along glacial edges, and hunted mammoth. I have the report here with additional notes from Tom Lees son, I think, and the 1990s field work, and updated thoughts.
As a quarry, it would have been revisited continually. A paleo point made on this quartzite was found up at Cape Croker, and is in a private collection."

Tom Lees reports are available through the CMC in Ottawa. His original reports are either with family or in a museum.

This is what she has been told

reply to post by Kandinsky


I don't know about the rest of the ooparts but the london Tx. hammer is verifiable.

paleo.cc...

reply to post by TheWanderingSpirit

Here's a pretty good treatment of the subject:www.magma.ca...

...it is the one I cite for legitimate ambiguities. From what I'm told, Storck & Jelig's assessment is the current model for the site...and they are the pros from Dover. But yes, Lee was trashed for his assertions.

Originally posted by daddyroo45
reply to post by Kandinsky

 

I don't know about the rest of the ooparts but the london Tx. hammer is verifiable.
paleo.cc...

Did you read that? I cite...

Conclusions As with all extraordinary claims, the burden of proof is on those making the claims, not on those questioning them. Despite some creationist assertions that the hammer is a dramatic pre-Flood relic, no clear evidence linking the hammer to any ancient formation has been presented. Moreover, the hammer's artistic style and the condition of the handle suggest a historically recent age. It may well have been dropped by a local worker within the last few hundred years, after which dissolved sediment hardened into a concretion around it. Unless Baugh or others can provide rigorous evidence that the hammer was once naturally situated in a pre-Quaternary stratum, it remains merely a curiosity, not a reliable out-of-place artifact.

reply to post by TheWanderingSpirit


Thank you Wandering Spirit
that is exactly why a thread like this is good
Unfortunately in Canada
the glaciers have made things difficult to follow back

Of course one thing is certain bureaucracy hasn't changed.
it still operates the same way

I had a skin scraper verified by the head archeaologist for Ontario in the late 70s
a Dr Jory.
It was dug up from undisturbed soil well inside the pit
which would be easily 40 feet DOWN under the surface of the hill
he had no problem verifiying that it was a skin scraper
in front of Ten people that were there when I found it he poo poohed
the age represented by its position...
basically he said I must be mistaken about where it was located.

My friends still laugh about that part

It was in an area of the pit that had been scraped to grade the day before I found it.

After doctor verified the scraper
which I later noticed was self sharpening
Nothing like that around today that i have seen not even TV ginsu knives (lol)
There was a crack down the edge
as you dulled one edge scraping
You turn the scraper over and the other edge protrudes and is sharp.
The texture around the hand hold is silk smooth the rock itself is fairly textured

But after the way he discounted the story in front of people that were there
because it didn't fit his notions of history...
well that IS history.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


very nice link JC
thank you

They made exciting finds that put Sheguiandah on the map for having the oldest traces of man in Ontario (Paleo-Indian spearpoints, about 10,000 years old). Even these soon paled in significance, however, when geologists told Lee that artifacts under the spearpoints were in Ice Age deposits. This exploded the established idea that spear-throwing Clovis Indians were the first humans to enter the Americas, after the Ice Age. Lee was vigorous in making his case, but the established authorities did not want to hear it. More than four decades would pass before the American "Clovis barrier" could be broken.

from the link in JCs last post above

if it was just Lee's hypothesis thats one thing
but it looks like he relied on multiple disciplines
and people to form his conclusion

reply to post by Danbones


And I found an endscraper lying on the ground. That doesn't mean it got there today. Your scraper absolutely couldn't have fallen from the bucket or the pit wall? It couldn't have rolled down a gopher hole to a deeper depth? Lots of ways things can end up where they oughtn't and as unlikely as it may be, it's not as unlikely as unlikely as what some of these ooparts and their proponents would suggest.

If you want to see what's required to change a paradigm, look up Tom Dillehay's work at Monte Verde.

But keep being interested. Join the Ontario Archaeological Society, talk to academics, professionals and enthusiasts. Going on a dig is a lot more gratifying than reading Cremo.

At Sheguiandah, this is so for only a few dozen spear points (including the one shown here, at actual size). All concerned -- Lee, Storck, and Julig -- agree that these are mainly late Paleo-Indian and early Archaic forms, dating from about 10,000 years ago. But there is no agreement on who made the masses of other stone tools and debris that cover the Paleo-Indian spear points, or the quite different artifacts buried underneath them. Lee likened the latter to Old-World paleolithic cultures of 30,000 or more years ago.

The Ojibway tell of how they arrived from the east with the rest of the Algonquins which fits with Lee's theory.

To understand the geological deposits where they were digging, both Lee and Julig worked with specialists.

of course if Lee (And COMPANY ) was wrong they would have just debunked him.
they didn't they destroyed him and his work
which is what you do when you can't debunk with facts.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


it was buried in the hard pan of undistrubed soil
you don't build much I take it

I ment UNDISTURBED soil
which is why I said undisturbed soil
the trem undisturbed soil is an actual terrm used to describe
undisturbed soil

the bucket scrapes to a depth
determined by transit
there was NO loose earth
no nothing dumped from a bucket

take it or leave it.

go on a dig?
what were we doing taking field trips with DR Jory again?
Oh yeah, helping dig and rebuild an Indian village

I also never said on the surface
that was 40 feet above the location.

the eldars have lots to say about this particular scarper and the manner in which it was found...
I'll believe them first
makes archeology pale when you are dealing with the real living thing

just like they were right about Custer and the Whitey was not.

reply to post by Danbones


Yes, yes, we know what Lee said...I have his original report. Now see what has been said since and get back to us. Perhaps from the product description for Julig's book:

The Sheguiandah archaeological site is situated on Manitoulin Island, Lake Huron, Ontario. Originally excavated in the early 1950s, the site has remained enigmatic and controversial for half a century. The late Thomas E. Lee discovered the site and recognized its unique value as an ancient cultural deposit, and he succeeded in having the site protected by the government of Ontario. Lee interpreted his finds as evidence of human occupation that might be older than the last Ice Age, and this claim sparked controversy. In one chapter of this book, Lee’s son, Robert, provides a detailed review of the circumstances surrounding the original studies at Sheguiandah. New studies reported in this book reveal the geological history of Manitoulin Island and the surrounding region, including the bedrock geology and the formation of surface deposits. The complex history of the Great Lakes is viewed from several perspectives ranging from gradually declining lake levels to catastrophic floods. Some chapters reconstruct the evolution of the plant community, while others explore various aspects of the archaeology of the Sheguiandah site. People arrived at the site soon after the glaciers retreated, and the made repeated use of the area for many millennia. www.amazon.com...

And let me know about that copper mine, will ya?

Originally posted by Danbones
reply to post by Harte

 

That is the dumbest question anyone has ever asked me Harte

How many times did edison fail before he invented the light bulb again?

How many bullflop stories do creationists and other pseudohistorians have to invent in order to hook you in?

It only takes one (apparently.)

Harte

Originally posted by Solasis

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Danbones
This incident is mentioned on the list,
which is a good list of supposed anomolies

When you think about it;
Only one of the items on the list needs to turn out to be true.

And how many need to turn out to be blatant lies before you decide to turn your "research" in a different direction?

Harte

That's absurd. A good number of them are not blatant lies, although the vast majority are. Ther eis no reason that this disparity should discredit the entire field.

Wait. I thought this was a "good list of supposed anomolies."

What I meant by turning your research in a different direction was to try and find out for yourself. As you seem to have done.

Now, isn't it always the fringers that are saying that absence of evidedence is not evidence of absence?
Then, is evidence of fraud not fraud of evidence?

There may be three things on that list one cannot disprove from one's couch with a laptop. That obviously doesn't make them any "truer" than the blatant lies.

A person might have to get up off the couch and spend a few months on the road to disprove this last handful of lies.

I'm too lazy to do that, so I'll dismiss the 1% along with the already disproven 99%.

Harte

[there are sites in australia where similar things have occurred - I'll let everyone at ats in on this secret - see if this gets removed....Whenever they try to present to you a parcel of land that is a no -go zone due to indigenous reasons, dangerous terrain reasons, radioactive reasons etc - They are disallowing you to see something they dont want you to see...Believe me..we have here a place called arnehm land and it is not enterable - yet many indigenous people speak of the "pyramids there" - it is also a "no fly zone"...These things are all over the place...

Ive been to the Pyramids at Giza and seen the size of the blocks Hawass and every other archeologist has great teams of slaves dragging them everywhere Ive allways wondered why the hell would you do that when you've got thousands of elephants walking around the place.