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WikiLeaks cables: Pope wanted Muslim Turkey kept out of EU

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posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by Siddharta
 



and the EU tried to grow too quickly anyway and lost a little balance.


The European Union was doomed before it was even thought up. It is UNTHINKABLE that the Western world accepted such a device, regardless of how many of its citizens protested, or regardless of how undemocratically it was pushed through the throats of so many(even though we've come to find out there is NO such THING as democracy, specially NOT when talking about governments and politics).

It is so disturbing that things as "European Arrest Warrants" don't even make people cough anymore and people extradicted can be freely written about in newspapers without anyone winking...




posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 11:45 AM
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I don't have anything against Turkey joining up because it's 'muslim'. For all I care the state religion and culture could worship 4-headed lego monsters from venus and I wouldn't care. It's the economic state of applicant and how democrazy and justice work that matter.



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by PsykoOps
I don't have anything against Turkey joining up because it's 'muslim'. For all I care the state religion and culture could worship 4-headed lego monsters from venus and I wouldn't care.It's the economic state of applicant and how democrazy and justice work that matter.


Let me guess...you know nothing about those situations in Turkey. Right? You didn't hear of the many Turkish generals(high ups) that were fired because they were spies for Israel?

How is the situation in the US again? Or Brittain?

Oh I see...it's not about democracy and justice, it's about something else which you can't put your finger on right...?

What a shell



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by Zamini
 




The European Union was doomed before it was even thought up.


Yes, so true, and this should be what people are thinking about, not whether or not another nation joins.

The EU is an "experiment", and as usual, it is also somewhat of an exercise in how far our masters can push the envelope. The funny thing is, they have pushed it rather far, fairly fast, and Europeans are mostly docile. Our masters surely laugh, but this feedback was valuable to them as more than mere amusement, because I'm guessing they have interpreted much of the typical attitude as a warrant for even more aggressive experimentation.

The EU, or the possible coming of a North American Union, or an Asian Union, etc., these are all steps to the big picture, which is literally a "One World" government. Of course, in the most important ways, this government, (sometimes referred to as a "shadow" government by some), is already here.

SO, the pertinent question is not really about whether allowing Turkey to join the EU "makes sense" (of course it doesn't!). This is more about what our masters already have planned. And if they want Turkey to become "part of Europe", in some sense down the line, then this is what will happen.

Are there any clues that we might discover about what the elite may be planning in this regard? Absolutely! Turkey has been courted for almost a century, gradually becoming westernized and modernized, turning just enough from their more Arabic traditions, exactly so they CAN play their future role as the Islamic gateway to the conquest of Europe (and ultimately, the world).

In my opinion, if you imagine the Pope to be in charge of this mess somehow, that's fine, but I'm not sure it's necessary to go there. The Pope's actions may have more to do with timing, than actual long-term intent. In other words, his actions may be more of a "slow down" signal than policy.

I have looked into the role Islam seems to be playing FOR the PTB (not against), and I believe it is a significant role, and that they are being used to usher in a worldwide "Plantation". They are in fact perfect for the job, and have been groomed for this "job" for probably at least three centuries.

So far, Islam has been working like a charm! Turkey, they are almost certain to play an important part in this ugly scheme, since they are located at the critical multifaceted crossroads, almost as much as Israel is (although that's another story).

OK, so what if the Pope wants Turkey out of the EU? Who cares! We've got bigger problems, and what the Pope does can be interpreted in many different ways. If I was to guess, I would tend to think that the Pope is eventually going to be at the forefront of some wild ecumenical nonsense. As Flyers Fan pointed out, this Pope has no real problem with Islam, and has done things in public that no "Pope" should ever be expected to do. This should be a clue. Take NOTHING at face value.

The long term plan, in my opinion, is to Islamize the world. Why? Because Islam is a "slave religion", and our masters want slaves on their Plantation. No, Islam is not the "perfect" slave religion, but it is the antecedent for what's coming. Our masters have already crafted the perfect cage for our minds, and Islam is part of the "delivery system" if you will. Once the "message" has been delivered, adopted, and implemented, our master's fervent hope that humanity will remain enslaved forevermore will finally be realized. And our grandchildren will serve them with no hope of ever being free again.

JR



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by Zamini

Originally posted by PsykoOps


You didn't hear of the many Turkish generals(high ups) that were fired because they were spies for Israel?


Interesting point you mentioned there, but not surprising.Reminded of how israeli agents were placed in high positions in Egyptian and Syrian armies during the 1967 Arab-israeli war which resulted in Arabs getting annihilated within 6 days.

Anyway can you elaborate more on the spying turkish generals, their names roles etc etc.?? Maybe a website link explaining it?



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by Doujutsu
 




Anyway can you elaborate more on the spying turkish generals, their names roles etc etc.?? Maybe a website link explaining it?


Wish I could but I did not get this information from the internet. Turkey is in the proces of getting rid of corruption, even the Kurdish situation is far from what it once used to be, Erdogan standing up for the Kurdish even. On the other side of the fence there is the Israeli funded PKK...if you know what that means...

I guess it is a more agressive stance from Turkey towards the corruption in the world.



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by Zamini
 


Fyi, I never said Turkey should be allowed to join. Why I didn't say is because I don't know how things are in Turkey. My point was entirely that what the dominant religion is shouldn't matter in such a situation.
edit on 11/12/2010 by PsykoOps because: typo



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 10:41 PM
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So the [Catholic] Pope doesn't want [Islamic] Turkey in [Christian] Europe?

How is this news?



posted on Dec, 11 2010 @ 11:37 PM
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reply to post by FOXMULDER147
 


This is my issue with wikileaks thus far. I have seen nothing that doesn't fall within the 'Well, Duh!' category. All it has really done so far is give evidence towards validating what your everyday cynic would pretty much assume was happening.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 03:01 AM
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reply to post by PsykoOps
 



Fyi, I never said Turkey should be allowed to join. Why I didn't say is because I don't know how things are in Turkey. My point was entirely that what the dominant religion is shouldn't matter in such a situation.


It's okay, I'll try to explain it again.

Due to amount of people that populate Turkey, Turkey would, when entered in the EU, have more say than for instance Italy or Brittain. Simply due to the amount of inhabitants. The major powerholders of the West; including the Vatican, Germany, France, Brittain, would lose power to Turkey, just through the amount of people living in Turkey. This is how the broken EU works, this is why Turkey will be fought against from joining the EU.

Nobody in power gives a crap about religion...they only use it to rake in money from donations and rake in votes from stupid religious people. Not even the Vatican cares about religion, they care more for their billions in wealth and their political say while the little dumbass Christian with his 14 kids proceeds to donate and praise Jesus. While the Vatican, and Christianity in general, hacks away at South American, African and Asian culture and knowledge.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 03:28 AM
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Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by Doujutsu
 




Anyway can you elaborate more on the spying turkish generals, their names roles etc etc.?? Maybe a website link explaining it?


Wish I could but I did not get this information from the internet. Turkey is in the proces of getting rid of corruption, even the Kurdish situation is far from what it once used to be, Erdogan standing up for the Kurdish even. On the other side of the fence there is the Israeli funded PKK...if you know what that means...

I guess it is a more agressive stance from Turkey towards the corruption in the world.



Well, we seem to have an apologist for the current AKP. Turkey should not be included in the EU. Part of the country may be geographically located in Europe however, their culture is very different from the European one.

This is a country where honour killings are on the rise, women are coming under pressure to wear headscarves: the country is in the process of Islamification. For some reason the dominant western media are very silent on these issues. They rarely mention Fetullah Gulen and his "Gulen Movement".


According to FGC members, the organisation controls millions of dollars and has many organisations, including a network of high schools across the world that serve as signpost FGC institutions. In addition, the FGC owns universities, banks, non-governmental organisations and television networks in Turkey, as well as other countries. What is more, the FGC appears to have influence over the Turkish National Police (Emniyet), including the police's powerful domestic intelligence wing. The FGC's political power renders it a taboo topic in Turkey where many people shy away from discussing the group publicly. The Turks have a polarised view of Gulen: some see him as a political leader such as Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini, while others view him as the face of modern, non-violent, even reformed Islam. This and the FGC's political power makes the organisation worthy of closer scrutiny in an effort to map out its structure, global reach, message, political influence and future in Turkey.


www.janes.com...

Think this doesn't effect you in America? Wrong! This movement is in control of over 100 Charter Schools in the United States. Are you ready for the neo-ottoman empire?


They have generic, forward-sounding names like Horizon Science Academy, Pioneer Charter School of Science and Beehive Science & Technology Academy.

Quietly established over the past decade by a loosely affiliated group of Turkish-American educators, these 100 or so publicly funded charter schools in 25 states are often among the top-performing public schools in their towns.

The schools educate as many as 35,000 students — taken together they'd make up the largest charter school network in the USA — and have imported thousands of Turkish educators over the past decade.


www.usatoday.com...

Former FBI Translator Sibel Edmonds had this to say about them:


The Controversial Muslim preacher has now extended his tentacles into schools in the United States, where he controls and operates more than 100 charter schools within a calculatively set up maze of dubious NGOs. Fethullah Gulen, whose organizations’ net worth is estimated to be somewhere between $22 billion and $50 billion, owns and operates over three hundred Madrasas around the world, including Pakistan, Central Asia, and the Caucasus. While Gulen’s suspicious and secretive Madrasas have been shut down and or restrained in countries such as Russia, Uzbekistan, and Turkmenistan, based on these governments’ justified suspicions that his schools had more than just education on their agendas, his rapidly and secretively expanding charter school empire here in the US has gone quite unnoticed and unacknowledged.

www.boilingfrogspost.com...

He lives in the United States, can you believe this #e! Remember this name. More people need to be aware of this.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 03:41 AM
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reply to post by deessell
 



Part of the country may be geographically located in Europe however, their culture is very different from the European one.


It seems we have an apologist for the European Union!

Can I ask you what the European culture is? Last I checked Europe consisted of different nations with varying cultures and traditions, of course, I might have checked before they indoctrinated people like yourself into waving the EU flag, acting like everybody in Europe has the same damned culture. (Which fyi is propaganda)


This is a country where honour killings are on the rise, women are coming under pressure to wear headscarves: the country is in the process of Islamification.


Been to Turkey lately? No? WHAT A SURPRISE!


For some reason the dominant western media are very silent on these issues.


Not really. Fearful people like you make the non-existant religious connection, which is okay, after all, you are entitled to live in Bible-land.



Think this doesn't effect you in America? Wrong!

You are WRONG! since I don't live in the US.


This movement is in control of over 100 Charter Schools in the United States. Are you ready for the neo-ottoman empire?


Oh no! 100 Muslim schools. How many Christian schools again? GASP, 22 to 50 billion? Boy, are you going to have a heart attack when you research the Vatican.


Former FBI Translator Sibel Edmonds had this to say about them:


And now you want me to trust an FBI translator.


He lives in the United States, can you believe this #e! Remember this name. More people need to be aware of this.


He lives in the US because the US is packed with religious idiots. The easiest target to siphon money off in the name of some greater good or goal...remember that no human lasts more than a 100 years generally speaking.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 04:42 AM
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Originally posted by Zamini
Can I ask you what the European culture is? Last I checked Europe consisted of different nations with varying cultures and traditions, of course, I might have checked before they indoctrinated people like yourself into waving the EU flag, acting like everybody in Europe has the same damned culture. (Which fyi is propaganda)


Yes, European values is more appropriate.




Been to Turkey lately? No? WHAT A SURPRISE!


I don't have to go to Turkey, I can read the local press. Google the two words, if you are too lazy, here is a small selection.


Four years ago, Turkey passed a law requiring mandatory life sentences for those who kill women and girls in the name of honor. In its hope to join the EU, the law has led to a terrible twist. So-called suicide rates have since skyrocketed.

In Batman, a small city in the southern region of Kurdish dominated Turkey, the cemetary’s director says that in the past year 18 women have committed suicide.

Hanging, shootings, and rat poison are common methods. He suspects many are simply murdered by their families and then reported as suicides.

humanrights.foreignpolicyblogs.com...

It was only ten years ago that 'Virginity testing' was banned in Turkey.


Virginity testing is discriminatory, highly invasive, and often involuntary. These tests involve the physical examination of a woman's hymen for tears to determine whether the woman is still "a girl" (the term Turkish doctors use to refer to a virgin). Underlying the practice of virginity testing are cultural norms, which dictate that women who are not virgins may not be considered eligible for marriage and could bring dishonor to their families. This is especially true in rural areas of predominately Muslim Turkey. Virginity testing is thus used to prove a woman's chastity and make her eligible for marriage. This cultural context creates a presumption that female virginity is a legitimate interest of the family, community, and ultimately, the state. According to Human Rights Watch (HRW), an interview with a Turkish doctor revealed that if a woman does not bleed on her wedding night, she likely will be taken for "virginity control." Although gynecologists maintain the status of the hymen is not determinative of one's virginity, Turkish doctors nonetheless rely on such information when they perform virginity testing, and "passing" the virginity test is based on whether or not the hymen is torn.

Prior to the ban, directors of state-run dormitories for female university students often required virginity exams of women when they first entered the dormitories, and subsequent to any nights they spent elsewhere. Nursing and midwife students also have been subjected to virginity testing. Additionally, applicants for civil service jobs at the State Cartography Department, a division of the Department of Defense, have complained about being tested for virginity. In addition, some hospitals' rules dictate that female patients are to be examined for virginity before being admitted.

www.wcl.american.edu...




Not really. Fearful people like you make the non-existant religious connection, which is okay, after all, you are entitled to live in Bible-land.


Fearful? The honour killings are directly related to Islamic law. I don't know of any other European countries that have this problem.



You are WRONG! since I don't live in the US.


Exactly, I wasn't addressing you, as you don't live in the US.


Oh no! 100 Muslim schools. How many Christian schools again? GASP, 22 to 50 billion? Boy, are you going to have a heart attack when you research the Vatican.


But these Christian Schools proudly state that they are religious schools. In the case of the Gulen Schools parents are unaware, which is causing a problem. Read the 236 comments on the USA today article.



And now you want me to trust an FBI translator.


Actually, Sibel Edmonds is one of the most gagged women in history -- she is a whistleblower!


Recently released FBI documents prove the existence of highly sensitive National Security and criminal investigations of “Turkish Activities” in Chicago prior to September 11, 2001. These documents add further support to many of the allegations that former FBI translator Sibel Edmonds has claimed, in public and in Congress, since 2002. The documents were released under a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request into an organization called the Turkish American Cultural Alliance (TACA), an organization repeatedly named by Ms. Edmonds as being complicit in the crimes that she became aware of when she was a translator at the FBI.

www.boilingfrogspost.com...



He lives in the US because the US is packed with religious idiots. The easiest target to siphon money off in the name of some greater good or goal...remember that no human lasts more than a 100 years generally speaking.


I don't know why he is allowed to live in the United States when he was wanted in his home country for trying to overthrow the secular state. But he has some powerful people aiding his agenda. And, in my opinion is not to be trusted.

Thank you, and I look forward to your reply!



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 04:45 AM
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The leaks have been upseting more & more people as time goes on. it's going to get interesting



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 05:01 AM
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reply to post by deessell
 



Yes, European values is more appropriate.


Rape of boys in church at the hands of religious leaders? Taking kids hostage with swords in daycare centres?

What I'm trying to make clear is that there are NO collective EUROPEAN VALUES. NONE. THEY DON'T EXIST outside of gathering rooms for EU politicians.


I don't have to go to Turkey, I can read the local press. Google the two words, if you are too lazy, here is a small selection.


Actually, you do need to. Wow, 18 women commited suicide. Sure that's horrible but I'm sure there are suicides elswhere as well. For instance in Belgium or in Holland, where kids (4 years and younger) are not taken serious by daycare centres/police/social services when they tell older folks they're being abused...So yes, European values exist in La-La-Land, but not in Europe.


It was only ten years ago that 'Virginity testing' was banned in Turkey.


It was banned in Turkey but it is not banned in most of Europe...I wonder if Turkey gives more way to extremist or this European value you speak of? Reconstructive surgery...happens a lot in the West because dumbass religious folk have a special status, both sides.


Fearful? The honour killings are directly related to Islamic law. I don't know of any other European countries that have this problem.


And that's where you're DEAD wrong, it is a CULTURAL thing, not at all tied to Islam. It's about how stupid people are.



But these Christian Schools proudly state that they are religious schools. In the case of the Gulen Schools parents are unaware, which is causing a problem. Read the 236 comments on the USA today article.


It's irrelevant.


I don't know why he is allowed to live in the United States when he was wanted in his home country for trying to overthrow the secular state. But he has some powerful people aiding his agenda. And, in my opinion is not to be trusted.


It is because the people in the West need to get a horror image in their minds about the big bad Muslim. So that's why the extremists that are banned from their own nations, are given amnesty to do their PR thing in the West. Of course he is not to be trusted, 50 billion dollars say so. Same as the Vatican.


Actually, Sibel Edmonds is one of the most gagged women in history -- she is a whistleblower!


That may well be, sadly, the FBI has a track record of messing ish up. If I were to work for them I'd not trust myself...go figure.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 05:15 AM
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reply to post by Zamini
 


Thank you for your reply. I'm going to let other members make up their own minds on the current state of Turkey. There is enough information out there to support the idea that Turkey is becoming increasingly less secular. To deny that fact, seems uninformed.

It pains me to agree with the Pope however, on this one he is correct. I cannot condone the Islamic treatment of women. Turkey was considered an ally because of Attaturk's legacy, which is sadly disappearing.

Are you Turkish, perhaps?



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 05:23 AM
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reply to post by deessell
 



It pains me to agree with the Pope however, on this one he is correct. I cannot condone the Islamic treatment of women.


And there's the difference between you and I. You make it to be an Islamic thing whereas I do not condone the ill treatment of women regardless of what colour or religion. It happens everywhere! And for the pope of the Catholic belief to say it...it's just too ironic for words.


Are you Turkish, perhaps?


No. I don't understand the relevance of this question either.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 05:47 AM
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reply to post by JR MacBeth
 


You should start a thread on this..

I would read it



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by Zamini
 


Yeah it's true. Culture in all EU countries is very different from one another. Turkey's cultural status wouldn't change that at all.



posted on Dec, 13 2010 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by squirelnutz
reply to post by JR MacBeth
 


You should start a thread on this..

I would read it


Thanks squirelnutz, I have been thinking about possibly doing a thread, but it's a busy time of year. I continue to think that religion is an important tool that the elite are using, and I also think that too many people brush aside it's importance. I'll be sure to U2U with a link when I get that thread up!

JR




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