Originally posted by dusran
While I agree a system with hiearchies is self serving in a way it doesn't mean it has to be so black and white. There is a middle ground between
serving self and serving others it doesn't have to be one extreme or the other. If I give a kid a toy I'm doing it in a large part because the kid
is going to get alot of enjoyment out of it and partly because it makes ME happy. Therefore I'm STS and STO at the same time.
But you're making the assumption that he'll get enjoyment out of it. What if 10 minutes from then he hurts himself with the toy? What if another kid
takes it away from him? What if he loses it very quickly and becomes upset? And the most obvious one of all, what if he simply doesn't care for the
toy, and in 2 minutes tosses it out?
You can't anticipate whether someone will get enjoyment from something or not, it is truly upto them, or so I think. So if you don't really know
whether he'll get ANY enjoyment out of it, as anything can happen and his state of mind cannot be really predicted, in whose favor are you acting?
What if this toy teaches him to be materialistic, and he grows up wanting more "toys", which soon become houses, cars, money, etc. Ya just can't
predict these things, so why assume! Any choice has a potential for detriment and a potential for benefit. But what you DO know is that it will make
you happy THINKING that this toy will bring pleasure to the kid, so you give it to him anyway. So you are still STS, even though you convince yourself
that "It's good for the kid". You just don't know if it's "good" ahead of time, this reality is non linear, so a little thing can do "a
The vast majority of people in this world are a combination of STS and STO. Its just that with all the different nations and groups of people in this
world it can seem purely STS.
Well no one is 100% STS, and no one is 100% STO. Remember the symbol for Ying-Yang? It has 2 halfs, one black, one white, with a curved line in the
middle which shows that in the middle they "overlap" - since the line is not straight. In addition, on the white side there is a BLACK DOT, and on
the black side there is a WHITE DOT, which means there is a little bit of the opposite polarity in each side, nothing is TOTALLY one or the other.
But what I'm saying is, every single last human on this planet is clearly on the black side (STS) side, even though they still have that "white
dot" that allows for some sto as well, though relatively much smaller than STS. Some humans embrace this side and consciously make the choice to
remain here. Others are slowly making their way to the opposite side, though they can never achieve STO as humans, but they can be STO candidates. I
hope I can express myself more clearly as I comment to your specific examples below
And really what is STS and STO? It is all relative.
Lets say we have a society of aliens that have no leadership per say, everyone has a voice in every decision that is made. Nobody can gain any more
power than the next person in this society. Everyone works to better the entire species. You would say this is STO correct?
STO really means, service to self through others. And it's not that nobody can gain power, it's simply because no one WANTS power. STO society only
exists when each and every individual is STO. Power means control over others, and control can NEVER be exercised over another unless he CONSENTS to
it. STS allows to be controlled, because of certain "rewards" (temptations) or "threats" (blackmail, etc). They worry about "the self" and
therefore sacrifice certain things to gain others. STO means COMPLETE lack of concern for self - TOTALLY.
So where does that black dot in the middle of the "yang" side come in, in relation to the civilization you described? Physicality. The very fact
that your race is physical, means they have a craving for physicality, and that in and of itself is already STS, though pretty much everything else
about them can be STO. Remember, humans have to EAT to survive - which means slaughter another living creature and consume its energy, to continue the
physical existance of the SELF. So physical STO entities have to get really creative in terms of supporting their physical being, without having to
Well lets say that this society soons find out that their planet can no longer support life, so they ALL decide to travel into space to look for a new
place to live.
That is already STS, they worry about survival of the self, they care about their own FLESH, because the flesh brings them "pleasure" (physical
existance includes sensate) and emotions and so forth. If you are not PHYSICAL, you don't worry about survival! Yes, I know it seems a little
"harsh" to say that if you worry about your own survival then you're service to self, but is it not obvious? It is our nature to worry about our
survival, because we ARE self serving entities, we made the choice to be such, so here we are! There is NOTHING wrong with being service to self, the
universe wouldn't exist without STS or STO, it needs both in perfect balance. Saying something is "wrong" or "bad" is a subjective judgement, so
it really is a waste of time to judge and be assured that your judgement is "the correct" one. I just say this in case you think I'm "accusing"
you or anyone of being STS. The word "accuse" carries a negative connotation in our language, which in a word can be described as something "bad".
But that would be a judgement
Soon they come to our planet; they contact the governments and tell them what has happened to their race and ask if they can settle on our planet.
Our governments of course tell them no since we are already having a population crisis. So the aliens are left with no other nearby livable planet
and they don't have the time nor resources to terraform a planet. Either they do something drastic or their race dies out.
Still, just worrying about their own survival, body-centric, service to self race. There are different levels of awareness in the universe, and some
forms of existance don't have to be purely physical, they can be for example half physical half pure consciousness. In this state, you can be STO
because your survival doesn't depend on "problems" with your planet necessarily. However, you are speaking of a COMPLETELY physical race, like
humans, who really are very physically vulnerable and depend on many factors to be "just right" in order to survive.
So we have a STO race with little options:
Sorry they're now an STS race, but let's check out those options.
1) take over our planet and inhabit it thereby saving their race or 2) Die. These aliens are thinking about what is best for their race, they want
to see their children live to grow up happy just as they did. Still STO right?
DESIRE is STS, period. Any time you "want" something, it is STS. Any time you "wish" it is STS. Ever wish upon a star?
You see, this takes some thinking to understand, but it makes all the sense in the world after you give it some critical thought. I'll gladly go over
the details with you of the reasoning behind such statements as I just made about STS. I am posting on this board because I am service to SELF, so I
get pleasure from entertaining the idea that I can help someone learn by sharing with you this knowledge. You never really asked me to share, neither
did EarthSister, but because it will make ME happy, I decided to do it anyway. So yes, I'm doing this for myself, no matter how much I convince
myself that "It is really for your own good, I do it for you!". The very fact that I am giving you this info without being ASKED for it, is self
So your civilization wants its children (which they apparently obtained by sex, and what is more self serving than that?) to be happy and live long
happy lives. Happiness doesn't reside in a "long life", you don't have to SURVIVE to be happy - happiness is a state of mind, it is subjective and
can be obtained by WILL alone at any moment. Your civilization, however, is attached to its children - it will pain the parents to see its children
die - and to avoid THEIR OWN PAIN, the parents try to find a new planet. Or is it that their children will be in pain that bothers them so much? The
question is, why does it bother THE PARENTS!? You see, your race, if they are STO, would realise that death is just a rebirth, death is part of life,
and any "pain" teaches us very valuable lessons and is part of being ALIVE in the flesh. To try to avoid pain at all costs and only seek pleasure
(and in their view, survival brings ultimate pleasure and happiness), is once again, STS. They try to link happiness with survival, with the flesh,
with something outside themselves. This is not just STS, it is also ignorant, because happiness is within. I have seen more happy homeless people in
my life than rich, married people. It is all about the WILL to be happy, it is WITHIN.
But the only way for their children and race to survive is to take this planet by force, which will result in the deaths of many humans and aliens
alike. Now you would probably say they are STS but in their eyes they are still a STO society. They don't want to see us hurt but then again
thinking of the others of their OWN race they do not want to see them all die off.
They don't want to see them die, that's STS isn't it? Once again, death is just normal part of life, "desire" to LIVE because life is pleasurable
is STS. Now, if they take this planet by force, obviously they are violating OUR free will on this planet, and being STS no doubt. But why do they do
this? Because they want to LIVE, they want their children to LIVE, they want their race to survive! Why? The universe doesn't really care one way or
the other, so why do THEY want their race to survive? Because it saddens them to see their race die, it makes them unhappy! They are attached to their
kids, their families, their way of life, their EXISTANCE in PHYSICALITY. To be separated from that attachment hurts the SELF! And we're back to
Once again, sorry if I'm being a bit too abrupt and confusing, I'm just trying to make the point as brief and clear as possible, with no extra
"emotional baggage" attached.
My point is that there is no such thing as purely STO or STS. There is only a middle ground, or leaning more to one side or the other. Even with a
STO society you are not guarunteed a peacefull existence.
When you are purely spiritual, which just means pure consciousness with no physicality, you can be pure STO as well. As long as there is at least SOME
physicality, you cannot be 100% either one. Do you know what 100% STS is? A black hole. A black hole is a physical representation of the STS polarity,
it is a reflection of the STS persuasion represented as physical phenomena. This way, it is PURE 100% sts though. So what happens to someone who keeps
going to STS polarity? Well STS focuses on the self, so if you focus completely on the self, you point all your energy inwards, and steal energy from
others and suck it in too. Eventually, the "gravity" of your own energy collapses you, and you seize to exist in a sense. Is this bad? NO! All there
is is lessons! It is part of the experience of "God", of ALL THERE IS! "God" (or all there is) has no LIMITS, so every possible experience that
can ever possibly happen already IS. Therefore, it is just a natural part of the universe, something that happens to those who make certain choices.
No one JUDGES you or punishes you into non-existance, it is a NATURAL result of your choices!
Same as, if you jump off a roof, you fall to the ground. Not because God hates everyone who jumps off roofs and punishes them by making them into
bloody pancakes. But because it's a natural result of "gravity" being present.
And if you are as hard-up on STO society as you seem to be you should just drop this whole debate now. Trust is based on the experiences we have with
others and Earthsister seems to have had quite a few with the aliens. Take up a STO attitude and trust that she is right in her trust, but caution
her that she could be wrong, and lets this argument drop. Stop feeding your own ego, by proclaiming your stance in these STS posts.
The only "trust" I have is in my potential to know all there is to know, that reality is not limited, and in potential, neither am I. What IS trust
anyway? How many times have people known someone ALL THEIR LIFE and suddenly he "betrays" their trust? I'm talking best friends, family, etc. Why?
Well let's look at trust for a second here...
When you TRUST someone you make the ASSUMPTION that they will be "faithful" and will carry on being whatever they seem to be. That means you ASSUME
they won't make the CHOICE to betray you, because you have observed them LONG ENOUGH to feel safe to make such an assumption. However, this doesn't
mean they will NOT betray your "trust", will NOT do something to hurt you, etc. So you don't really 100% KNOW, but you give it a HIGH PROBABILITY
that they will NOT.
So instead of questioning everything they do or say, you develop TRUST, which is a shortcut - it allows you to use the assumption that they will have
the best intentions for you, and skip the "research" on your part about all that they do and say, and just BELIEVE them. Sure it is possible they
will NEVER betray your trust, and it is also possible that they will. Either way, because you already make the assumption that they won't, you are
always SHOCKED when it does happen, IF it happens.
Those who say "I don't trust anybody" usually make the OPPOSITE assumption of someone who trusts. He sometimes makes the assumption that the person
WILL deceive them and "hurt" them in some way. Trust, is the assumption that they will NOT! But you cannot make either assumption, because you
simply do not KNOW! Why do we need to trust anyone? Because if we don't constantly make assumptions in our lives, we will spend a CRAZY amount of
time double checking the validity of every statement, of EVERYTHING.
Example: Your mom says "It is cloudy outside today, I hope it doesn't rain!". Now, because most people trust their moms to make such a simple
statement without any deception, you simply assume that she said the truth. Chances are, she did. However, it is never GUARANTEED 100%. But, if every
time your mom or someone else you trust made such a statement, and you went outside to double check to MAKE SURE, you would spend a LOT of time
checking many many things, too much time even.
So what is my personal solution to it? Well you didn't ask, but I'm STS so I'm gonna share it anyway. I do not ASSUME. Simple? Maybe.
My mom says: It's cloudy outside.
I would give this statement a high probability of being true, simply because of my experience that my mom doesn't have a reason to lie about this,
and usually she wouldn't. However, I still don't really know, for all I know, she just woke up and had a dream it was cloudy! So what do I do? If it
matters to me, I go check for myself. If it doesn't, I say "thanks" and keep doing whatever I kept doing. But the KEY thing in this whole thing is,
I will not ASSUME it is cloudy just because someone I "trust" says so. Not until I can validate it for myself. I can give it a high probability of
being true, but I can never give it 100% truth without actually knowing if it's true or not, because if I do this and go outside and it is SUNNY, I
made a false assumption and led myself astray.
So basically, trust is a shortcut for people to make assumptions, because when you make assumptions you don't have to question and double check
everything, it makes life EASIER and therefore more pleasurable. But do any of us 100% KNOW that those that we trust will absolutely NEVER make a
choice to deceive or hurt us? No, that would be wishful thinking, and because EACH person has free will, unless you have absolute control over the one
you trust, there is ALWAYS a chance that such a choice may be made. So why ASSUME that it won't? Why not just settle for "I don't know, but because
I have experience with this person, I give it a high probability of being true". You cannot really do better than that without lying to yourself.
So in reality, EarthSister may have plenty of experience with these aliens, and has developed trust - where she now assumes that what they say is
true, simply based on their prior consistency. But if one questions and verifies things, especially things that are important to that person (like
information with personal alien contacts perhaps), one can make SURE that the information is true. The best disinformation uses tactics of giving many
TRUTHS at first, and then mixing in a lie, that will usually go unnoticed because of all the other truths around them. This is sometimes called a
"lie sandwich". How does one spot that little lie? Knowledge protects, ignorance indangers. But if one assumes, one is not really seeking knowledge,
one is looking for "shortcuts". And there are no such thing, there are no shortcuts in lessons.
Anyways, I don't want this to turn into a debate (it may already have). I don't want to argue, I've made my point, what I WANTED to say (cuz im
STS!). But I won't push it. There comes a limit where your free will comes into play, and I will respect this. I'll say no more unless you directly
ask me a specific question. Sorry I have a tendency to write short books in my posts :\