Tax breaks for the rich create new jobs? How?

By freeing up money to expand businesses instead of having it confiscated by the government for 'redistribution.' Bear in mind that this is my money that I earned by playing by all the rules. It's just a matter of whether the government takes it or not. Although I do not consider myself rich, you probably do, despite the fact that I live modestly. I don't drive a Lexus; I have a ten year old Chevy. I have almost enough money to expand my business into the next state over. I have eight trucks now and have a presence in every city of any size in my state. I would like to expand into the next state where I believe I could get five more trucks. I already provide jobs for fifteen people other than myself These are above minimum wage jobs, though not really ritzy ones. I work one of the trucks myself. I could probably hire up to 8 more people and carry them for six months hoping they would become profitable within that length of time. It's a big risk for me, but I've done this for awhile, and if my business plan is sound, it should work. That would "expand the economy," wouldn't it? On the other hand, if I spend this money and for some reason the business fails to take off, I could lose the entire business. It's not a sure thing.

But right now I don't know what this confiscatory government is going to do to me. The amount of extra taxes they say they want to take from me will make the difference in whether I can do this or not, whether I can afford to expand. My "gains" would still be modest, but I would be providing jobs for a few more people.

Now I can do three things with my money, which I earned for myself. I can save it. I can invest it, or I can spend it. In the fiorst two cases it is being made available to others who will pay me a modest dividend to use it to perhaps expand their own businesses. In the third case I'm the one doing the spending. If my money is confiscated by the government, what are they going to do with it? They may give some of it away to people who did not earn it at all, thus making these people more dependent on government than themselves. Or they might use it to create yet another bureaucratic job for someone to make a whole oot of money making life more miserable for me with more regulations. One thing for sure, tthey will not be creating new wealth. They will be sucking it up.

So the phrase "tax breaks for the rich" is an emotionally loaded term. "Rich" is a relative term, especially when 47% of the people pay NO taxes whatsoever and the top 10% (that's who we are talking about here) pay nearly 70% of ALL the income taxes already. Here's the brerakdown/. So I'm already paying 70% of all the taxes, so I say how about you chip in a couple of points yourself. You're getting a free ride. You're not earning; you're taking. And "tax cut" is a misnomer, too. What "tax cut." It's a tax RAISE we will be experiencing here. There is no legal tax rate. Less taxes means more money in your pocket. More taxes means less money in your pocket. That's why it's so hard to give a tax cut to anyone BUT people who actually earn some money. half of you don't pay any taxes to begin with.

So here's the bottom line. I don't need this. I'm working 70+ hours a week with precious little time to jump on sites like this for some comedic relief and entertainment. I'm just about at the point of saying, "Screw it!" If I sell my trucks and my equipment and my inventory I might, just might, have enough to pay off my house. Tnen I can sit back and complain about "the rich" not paying their "fair share" (as in 70%) of their taxes.

That's what socialism does to you. It saps your willingness to excel.

reply to post by camaro68ss


Just because I don't believe in the tax cuts for the wealthy makes me a liberal.

Well, maybe, but define Liberal for me.

How about I am an american, and deserve a say in what goes on, not just those who make 250,000 or more.

reply to post by tjack


thank you, you could not say it any better. these people dont understand the returns on investment are 1-3% up to 5% if your lucky. you take away more of that and you cant expand to make more money. in turn create more Rev and higher more people

reply to post by schuyler


thank you for your input. I hope the OP is reading all this and trying to find ways to make is arguments make sence.

Once again when has the tax cuts ever given jobs to Americans?

I want to see.

is that over the last 10 years our unemployment has fallen to unforeseen levels

I will remind you "conservatives" that Bush initiated the tax cuts as well as initiated the bailouts.

Democrat, Republican, all puppets for the bankers

Originally posted by chiponbothshoulders
.

The bottom can no longer support the massive weight of the top.

From a personal income tax point of view I think you have this exactly backwards, "The top can no longer support to massive weight of the bottom" there fixed!

With Trillions of deficit spending, massive increase in government employees and programs, unemployment as the new welfare with no end in sight, price inflation at 4-6 times what the government says it is I for one do not have the income to keep supporting this ponzi scheme. Anyone depending on the ponzi to last much longer is naive at best.

Many people I know have or are planning to go GALT just because of this so called "justice", when enough do so then collapse will occur and your check will not be in the mail, your credit card stops working and the ATM shuts down - what then? if you are in a city run as fast as you can.

The gist of what I'm getting here is we have rampant ENVY of those more successful, whether that be by skill, luck or other means. I feel sad for those finding the need to penalize other for success.

Now with all that said I do think the criminal code applies to Investment houses, MBS securities firms, big banks, certain corporations, union pension fund managers and executives etc. etc. - these folks need to be tried, convicted, jailed and penalized through the criminal code not the IRS!

Leave us "normal" folks out of it please and seek counseling if you are feeling extreme envy tendencies

I have much empathy for those in need don't get me wrong - I just have a problem with those that think its ok to have the government steal - yes steal my money at the point or threat of a gun. I get the feeling most with envy issue are same who tell cops "hey buddy I have rights you know!" well so do I, the right to keep what I have come by honestly without having to worry about some goon taking it for new squirrel crossings under a rural highway for god sakes.

Back to thread subject, its been demonstrated many times during Coolidge, Kennedy, Reagan and Bush administrations that lower tax load spurs economic growth both in jobs and personal wealth while against all logic revenues increased to the government during those times, lately the issue has and will be the government is spending far more than can be brought-in regardless of tax rates - spending is so high that right now a 70% rate on so called rich will only dent the deficit by a measly 4.4%

Massive severe radical and austere spending cuts are the only way out not saddling our ancestors with our profligate debt.

Massive disruption - yup, Civil unrest - yup, revolution - possible, could we come together and make it work - yup - but don't have enough faith in altruism of fellow citizens anymore, to much of the I'll take it because its owed to me mentality I'm afraid.

For enlightenment read history on how Americans helped fellow Americans during 30's and ask are we even capable of doing so nowadays - I have my doubts.


The collapse is inevitable and will occur soon - this is unavoidable.


Phoenix

I will not sit here and argue with anyone who only has a point because there favorite political party wants it.

If the Republicans wanted to abolish the tax breaks and the democrats were for it, would you have the same view?

Doubtful.

reply to post by thewholepicture


I would absolutely.

The less government in my life the better. I dont care who makes that happen.

I cursed every government expanding nonsense from Carter to Obama inclusive of all the fake small-gov presidents in between. I'd wager to say I hate them even more since they lied to my face about being for small-gov.

I hate them all.

I misspoke earlier, I have not decided to be honest whether I believe in the tax breaks or not (I just don't like being labeled)

Personally I could care less.

I just want to know, how it's helped create jobs.

Show me the Statistics.

reply to post by thewholepicture


Agree .......

The old story of giving to the rich to trickle down DOES NOT WORK AND hasn't worked ..... they just keep the added wealth and make the employees work longer and harder for less.

Some very good discussions on the rich get richer argument....

Sanders fights Bush Nominee on WalMart tax breaks

Ending Tax Breaks for Billionaires

Any company that is too big to fail is too big to exist!

It has been creating jobs!!!

IN CHINA.

reply to post by svpwizard


Thanks for sharing. I love Bernie Sanders....don't agree with him on everything....but he truly fights for the middle class.

How many people can you say that about? Not many.

reply to post by David9176


I stand corrected, yes it has created Millions of jobs overseas .... it sure hasn't added anything stateside that's for sure ....

Originally posted by svpwizard
reply to post by thewholepicture

 

Agree .......

The old story of giving to the rich to trickle down DOES NOT WORK AND hasn't worked ..... they just keep the added wealth and make the employees work longer and harder for less.

Some very good discussions on the rich get richer argument....

Sanders fights Bush Nominee on WalMart tax breaks

Ending Tax Breaks for Billionaires

Any company that is too big to fail is too big to exist!

edit on 10-12-2010 by svpwizard because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-12-2010 by svpwizard because: (no reason given)

GREAT POST!! Thank you!

Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by thewholepicture
P.S.

Can anyone prove to me, since the tax cuts were put into place, where we have had substantial or any job growth in the United States?

Oh they are using these tax breaks to invest in companies and jobs alright, but not in the United States (see china industrial expansion and job growth over the last 10 years, like wise in the United States)

yes, before the crash bushes unemployment was at 4.2%. with Obama we are at 9.8% even after his spending spree you liberals love so much

edit on 10-12-2010 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

After Obamas spending spree? Your numbers just prove that Bush lost us jobs. Bush started with 4.2, and now we are at 9.8 7 years later, 5 of which were Bush policy years.

Nice attempt at revisionist history though.

And you still dont have the balls to say the number of jobs that the Bush tax cuts created for Americans outright...but then you post the facts then try to distort them to fit your agenda.

Originally posted by thewholepicture
Tax breaks for the rich create new jobs?

Hmm...Regarding this BS concept, I'm torn between , or .

Every attempt at trickle-down economics has brought us to this moment in time.

I would elaborate but the content is against the T&C's.

I do try to be a good girl.

Originally posted by lpowell0627

Of course, expanding the Federal Government to create jobs is not the answer since it's the taxpayers that ultimately pay these salaries and in case you didn't hear -- we are already broke.

We need to put the money in the hands of those most likely to spend it. That would be the rich.

Edit to add: If you look at many of the arguments in favor of taxing the rich, it boils down to jealously. Would I love to have millions at my disposal? Sure. But I don't. I also don't begrudge those that have attained wealth and are in control of the marketplace and the direction in which businesses head.

People are quick to say "he/she has too much money, it's not fair". But they don't take the time to see where that money goes and how it does benefit those of us with less.

Again, poor people can not offer you employment.

edit on 10-12-2010 by lpowell0627 because: additional ramblings

Are you saying that when the government spends money to build roads or to repair bridges, that it's the company they hired to do the work that's creating the jobs and not the government? Or how about when we build dams or modernize the nations power grid? Does the government have to actually take over the duties of the private contractor before they get credit for creating the jobs?

Secondly, what makes you think that the rich are most likely to spend money if given to them? You don't work for Fox News , do you? Because your statement sounds like the opposite of the truth. Poor people spend every dime they can get their hands on, that's why they don't have large savings accounts like rich people.

Thirdly, there is no jealously involved but rather it's a matter of simple logic. If you're going to collect taxes then you will have to collect them from where the money is and not from where it isn't. You know the old saying; "You can't squeeze blood from a turnip."

Lastly, the rich do not create jobs. It is the needs of people that creates demand for goods and it is that demand for goods that is the driving force behind the creation of jobs. Some of the world's wealthiest people started their companies with very little money but the demand for their product inevitably spurred the growth of their company creating more jobs in the process. Remove the product demand and no amount of money or tax breaks will save or bring back those jobs.

Incentive. Besides the fact its not the govts money to do with as it pleases.These people lose incentive to "produce" i.e. run their businesses. and they go away.

Small business Owners take ALL the risks and work their butts off far more than any employees.You( "Joe employee") get to go home after 40 hours and blow work completely out of your mind. I work with alot of small business owners they are on the clock all the time..the owner has to be concerned 24/7 365.

If it pays the same as being an employee of another company. Why go through the responsibility ;pain and stress of logistics and taxes and laws and HR issues..
we had a local plant shutdown recently because they determined they couldn't compete in this business ( tax) environment (175 "joes& jolenes) were on the street.Why work hard if the govt. is just gonna liberate it from you and pass it out to folks who don't .That is"slavery". They can't force you to keep a business open against the will of the owner.

Originally posted by thewholepicture
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here.

Argument 1: business' will be able to hire more people

The tax breaks are income tax breaks, right? Therefor when you pay a person on your payroll, wouldn't it be a tax write off and that money not considered part of income?

So in essence they would be able to hire the same amount of people with or without the tax breaks, since the paychecks are deducted from income.
Argument 2: It will help people create new companies that give jobs to people.
Argument 3: They already pay so much in taxes, why should they be forced to pay more?

Point #1 Limited Liability Companies... Income and Losses pass through the company to the owners. Unless it is setup as a S Corp with the IRS. So its possible, that my small business could generate 250k+ to me and I would have to pay higher taxes-even though I will still get some tax breaks. I will still spend more in taxes. This has been a sticking point with me about whom I hire. Considering that I may have to pay more taxes, means I have less to invest in let's say instead of me hiring two more people in Jan, I am going to hire one and make him a 1099 Contractor.

Point #2 I am doubtful on that one...however TPTB were talking about doing away with certain tax benefits with starting a new business and certain write offs. (dont ask which ones, because I dont remember right now.).

Ppint #3 American Dream? I believe it is tax loop holes need to be closed, first.

I would go for a flat tax on everything...except Food and Medicine, but no VAT. Dump the IRS and its Tax Code structure. At least with a flat tax-everyone pays their share.

Originally posted by thewholepicture
Once again when has the tax cuts ever given jobs to Americans?

I want to see.

is that over the last 10 years our unemployment has fallen to unforeseen levels

I will remind you "conservatives" that Bush initiated the tax cuts as well as initiated the bailouts.

Democrat, Republican, all puppets for the bankers

Have you ever gotten a job from a poor person? No... me neither..