Got a license to go along with that fishing pole? Heard of the ATS search function? Trolling goes beyond the usual medium speed shallow water fishing conducted from a shallow draft boat. ATS Game and Fish where are you?

Yeah man, Pittsburgh is crazy. Masons are all over the place there. I always thought that the two groups were the same thing, Masons and Illuminati I mean. Speaking of fishing, I went to buy a fishing liscense yesterday. BIG mistake. It cost 76 dollars. To fish. Come on. To fish?!

TROLL ALERT.

Beware the person known as The Punisher is a Troll.

When people like him show with proof that Freemasonry and the Illuminari are the same thing then people will listen and take notice of what they say. At the moment all they write and say is without proof and as a result has of no value.

Gerard O'Donnell

Would it not be fair to suggest that theres enough stuff on the internet to suggest the Masons are part of the Illuminati as there are Masons on this forum protesting against this. Where is your evidence, and if you are a mason, why should you even know if you're part of something much larger?

Personally I don't care whether any of it's true or not, I don't know enough, so I'm not taking sides.
And anyway, ThePunisher did not say it was one and the same, he said it was linked.

[edit on 4/7/04 by Valkyr]

Originally posted by Valkyr
Would it not be fair to suggest that theres enough stuff on the internet to suggest the Masons are part of the Illuminati as there are Masons on this forum protesting against this. Where is your evidence, and if you are a mason, why should you even know if you're part of something much larger?

Personally I don't care whether any of it's true or not, I don't know enough, so I'm not taking sides.
And anyway, ThePunisher did not say it was one and the same, he said it was linked.

[edit on 4/7/04 by Valkyr]

I am a Freemason. It is up to the Punisher to prove that Freemasons are part of the Illuminati. It is not enough to quote from other people who have said that they are. We need to see primary evidence that gives names and shows that Freemasons and the Illuminati are one and the same. He needs to show official documents that link these groups together and not just gossip. I shall await his reply with interest.

Brother Gerard O'Donnell

I just wanted to jump in for a second to say that The Punisher is speaking the truth. This organization is deeply entrenched in modern society. I have some good friends that are Mason's. There is an author out there that really did a lot of research on the Illuminati.....his name is Dan Brown. Two books in particular that will give you a lot to research are The Davinci Code and Angels and Demons. Believe me, these books contain a tremendous amount of history on secret societies, such as the Illuminati and Freemasons.

Originally posted by Sagasha
There is an author out there that really did a lot of research on the Illuminati.....his name is Dan Brown. Two books in particular that will give you a lot to research are The Davinci Code and Angels and Demons. Believe me, these books contain a tremendous amount of history on secret societies, such as the Illuminati and Freemasons.

No they don't. They are fiction.
The whole of the DaVinci Code is based on "Holy Blood, Holy Grail.", which in itself is based on the hoax of the Priory of Sion.

I bought this book in 1991 and tried 3X to read it... and everytime I tried to read it, I immediately felt so unbelievable drowsy - I would fall asleep! And it wasn't because it was 'boring', because it wasn't. I felt as if I were being 'deliberately' made to feel sleepy (as weird as that may sound) by 'unseen' forces - so I would abandon reading the book... and so I did.

I haven't read the DaVinci Code for fear of the same thing happening

I didn't mean that the books were true stories. These books are basically a lot of history surrounding secret socities all wrapped around a murder mystery. All of the references are based on his research of these secret societies. He clearly states in the beginning of each of these books that the art, documents and secret rituals are accurate and factual. The key is to research all of the references given and make up your own mind.

Priory of the Sion......a hoax!

The Priory of the Sion is a REAL European secret society founded in 1099. In 1975, Paris's Bibliothque Nationale discovered parchments known as Les Dossiers Secrets, identifying numerous members of the Priory of the Sion, including Sir Issac Newton, Botticelli, Victor Hugo and Leonardo da Vinci.

What is it about this forum that always has users debating over the Secret Societies. The fact is their secret, the members say its just a harmless think, where people can learn, help each other etc or whatever, everyone else speculates on conspiracies and dark secrets.
1. Who cares anyway?
2. Why must the topic be debated? theres no proof for or against the organisations motives and why are the Masons on this site so bothered about being linked to Illiminati?

Originally posted by Valkyr
What is it about this forum that always has users debating over the Secret Societies...

It is bizarre to see somebody that is debating about secret societies, questioning why folks debate about secret societies.

Why do you?

IMHO masons respond to things that are said because to do otherwise implies silent agreement to the representations presented. If I were to repeat on multiple threads that the entire population of Bromley, UK is linked to satanic rituals to give control of the world to goat people via sexual rituals performed on children in the sewers of the city I believe that that the good folks of Bromley would object as strongly as the masons to similar misrepresentations about masons.

Originally posted by Valkyr
What is it about this forum that always has users debating over the Secret Societies.

Could it be the title of the forum?

"Above Top Secret 3.1 >> Secret Societies"

It is bizarre to see somebody that is debating about secret societies, questioning why folks debate about secret societies.

They debate leading nowhere. How long has this site been open? Why has no-one proved the links/conspiracies between organisations, or disproved them? The only way to ever know is to be a Mason, or Illiminatis and be at the top.

IMHO masons respond to things that are said because to do otherwise implies silent agreement to the representations presented. If I were to repeat on multiple threads that the entire population of Bromley, UK is linked to satanic rituals to give control of the world to goat people via sexual rituals performed on children in the sewers of the city I believe that that the good folks of Bromley would object as strongly as the masons to similar misrepresentations about masons.

That'd be a hell of a lot of people and Bromleys not a city, its a Borough in London, so that'd be a pretty shoddy accusation, or a very large scale conspiracy. Yet surely the same is with these groups. They're disprovable and only those involved know. The rumour is that the groups are conspirital, so how are the members going to disprove this without fully revealing all the secrets?

Originally posted by muppet

Originally posted by Valkyr
What is it about this forum that always has users debating over the Secret Societies.

Could it be the title of the forum?

"Above Top Secret 3.1 >> Secret Societies"

I meant the site as a whole. What's knowing anything about the groups going to do? It won't reveal the mysteries of the universe, it'll just leave you feeling a little less left out of something big and relatively exclusive.

OK.....if the supposed facts in Dan Brown's work regarding the Illuminati and Priory of the Sion are not accurate, please tell us what the truth is. Do not post links to someone else's work....tell us how you know.

I meant the site as a whole. What's knowing anything about the groups going to do? It won't reveal the mysteries of the universe, it'll just leave you feeling a little less left out of something big and relatively exclusive.

I see what you mean. Fair enough.

I think there is something to be learned though, even if not directly. it' might not reveal the mysteries of the universe, but if it goes somewhere to understanding the way a particular group of people think, especially a large influential group like the Free Masons, that's a good thing for all of us.

It's only the same as studying any other religion, organization or movement. Freemasonry, like religion, forms a strong bond between it's participants. In the case of Freemasonry, while it claims to be, and probably for the most part IS a benign organization, it is also so large that common sense dictates there are some within it who's motivations may be different.

As with any organization with the potential to influence millions of people around the globe, it's prudent that those of us outside the organization to keep an eye on it.

This is meant as no offense to any of the Masons on this board, but they cannot know the true motivations and causes of the darker elements with their group, anymore than a facilities manager at Enron would have known about the accounting scandals at head office!



[edit on 4-7-2004 by muppet]

I think you have clarified and expanded my point perfectly. Thank you

Originally posted by muppet
This is meant as no offense to any of the Masons on this board, but they cannot know the true motivations and causes of the darker elements with their group, anymore than a facilities manager at Enron would have known about the accounting scandals at head office!

Sorry, but it doesn't work that way, Freemasonry is not centrally located, or directed. The "Darker Elements" would have to exist and control in 50 state Grand Lodges, plus Washington DC, Puerto Rico, Guam, The Virgin Islands, Prince Hall, And all the Concordant/Appendant Bodies just to have their "Eeeeevviiilll" way in the U.S. and it's territories. Our favorite Evil Scientist (gratuitous Austin Powers reference for the dull minded) will be working overtime to clone all the necessary "Muckity Mucks" to pull this one off. I'm sure this concept is supported because of the prevalence of "Bald Guys" in Grand Lodge Hierarchy, but it's really just a product of the time it takes to get to these lofty positions of "World Domination".



Just wait till I'm Grand Master of the World! BWAHAHAHAHA!


[edit on 4/7/2004 by Mirthful Me]