One question for those who disagree with Anonymous' actions

How are the DDoS attacks, especially on Paypal, any different than the following:

1. Consumer activists protesting and prohibiting entrance into any stores, offices, factories or like wise.

2. Environmental activists protesting and prohibiting entrance into any stores, offices, factories, or like wise.

3. Evangelical activists protesting and prohibiting entrance into abortion clinics.

4. Unions going on strike.

In each and every case, a place of business is being disrupted, often times with access to the business blocked off.

By suggesting a business online can not be protested against, you suggest any business can not be protested against. Consumers of all types and formats should have the right (and have the responsibility) to protest any business in which they disagree with on ethical grounds.

I ask anyone to explain the difference to me.

reply to post by SpectreDC


There is no difference. Some people just don't like free speech when it affects them, that's all. Bunch of hypocrites with double-standards.

We have a right, under the Constitution to peaceably demonstrate and gather. No law enforcement agency in this country would allow a demonstration to totally forbid entry into a business or establishment. Even picket lines are crossed in the US. One is left, when facing a demonstration, with a choice of whether or not they wish to cross the line or not.

DDoS attacks totally prohibit entry. They take away choice.

And there is no Constitutional right to blocking communication. Free speech is infringed when lines of communication are compromised.

I am neither stating a pro or con position about Anon here... simply answering your question.

~Heff

reply to post by Hefficide


Boo-hoo. This is the 21st century and the constitution is no longer relevant. Why? Because they don't follow it so why should we. Free Speech. Do you have any notion of the world you live in? Flip on Fox News and tell me about free speech. Read the upcoming internet bills and look what happened to wikileaks and tell me about free speech. This war is purely about free speech, but a lot of people are too stupid to realize that.

reply to post by Joehio


Just as some people are too stupid to realize that trampling on the rights of others in protest of rights being trampled upon is beyond assanine?

I reiterate, I was just answering an academic query and not stating opinion in my original post here. But the "Boo hoo" thing opens the door for me to enter a bit of personal opinion, now...

Do you truly think that Paypal gives a damn about having been down for a short period of time? Realistically they lost a few bucks... Money they will simply recoup in fees at some future point. DDoSing them accomplished NOTHING towards securing freedom for anyone. NOTHING. It was a stupid gesture. It was poor strategy.

In fact it was really nothing more than an excuse for a few idiots to run around Internet message boards claiming to be "freedom fighters" when, in reality, the majority of them are nothing but vandalistic sheep looking for a sense of belonging... Weak people trying to feel strong.

And, for the record... I have no ill will towards Anon - that is those who are truly anon. Those who troll message boards are mostly just .exe downloading wanna-be's.

~Heff

Originally posted by Hefficide

We have a right, under the Constitution to peaceably demonstrate and gather.

The constitution protects our ability to do so from legislation, it doesn't give us the right to do so.

One is left, when facing a demonstration, with a choice of whether or not they wish to cross the line or not.

And what happens when the protest is so large entry is impossible due to the feasibility of it?

DDoS attacks totally prohibit entry. They take away choice.

A DDoS attack does not guarantee that the site will go down. It can do nothing because the server can handle the load, or lag and load slowly.

Which again begs the question, what is the difference between what Anonymous' is doing and what any large protest can accomplish?

And there is no Constitional right to blocking communication.

Why do you have such a hard on for misinterpreting the constitution? It protects natural rights from legislation, it does not grant you any right.

Free speech is infringed when lines of communication are compromised.

Says who?

I am neither stating a pro or con position about Anon here... simply answering your question.

And I appreciate you attempting so, regardless of how lackluster and flimsy your arguments were that in the end failed to answer my question. Feel free to try again (25 cent deposit), other wise have a nice day!

I think that the Actions of Anon as of late, namely blocking Wikileaks and Paypal, not to mention Interpol, hide a very sinister motive that is being PINNED on Anonymous as a convenient scapegoat to draw attention from the real culprit.


Edit to add: Ok, looks like Anon is DEFENDING wikileaks.... my bad.
Still though, interesting thought about pinning things on Anon to cover tracks

-Edrick

Even though Anon's actions have affected me financially, I do not stand against them. I don't stand for them, either.

See, I see things like this :

Instead of wasting time and energy in protest, create something new. If they don't like how wikileaks has been treated, spend the energy they are wasting on attacking these different websites to, perhaps, spread the information that wikileaks has given out in a BETTER way.

With the technology obviously available to them, they could easily do it.

I say the same for any environmentalists standing outside of a nuclear power plant protesting, or people picketting outside of businesses and homes. Don't like what's going on inside there? DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT. Make a change for the world instead of throwing yourselves into the meat grinder in protest. You're just wasting your time, energy and lives.

Create something NEW with the anger or dismay.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by Joehio

 

Just as some people are too stupid to realize that trampling on the rights of others in protest of rights being trampled upon is beyond assanine?

I reiterate, I was just answering an academic query and not stating opinion in my original post here. But the "Boo hoo" thing opens the door for me to enter a bit of personal opinion, now...

Do you truly think that Paypal gives a damn about having been down for a short period of time? Realistically they lost a few bucks... Money they will simply recoup in fees at some future point. DDoSing them accomplished NOTHING towards securing freedom for anyone. NOTHING. It was a stupid gesture. It was poor strategy.

In fact it was really nothing more than an excuse for a few idiots to run around Internet message boards claiming to be "freedom fighters" when, in reality, the majority of them are nothing but vandalistic sheep looking for a sense of belonging... Weak people trying to feel strong.

And, for the record... I have no ill will towards Anon - that is those who are truly anon. Those who troll message boards are mostly just .exe downloading wanna-be's.

~Heff

Who's rights are being trampled on? Oh no, you can't buy your little knacks on e-bay for a couple hours... the horror... the horror... Just like in how every protest usually whatever is being protested gets shutdown. And yeah in the long run it accomplished little in a tangible sense but guess what you and I are talking about right now and why we're talking about it? Also you should go read some of the hilarious threads on here about retards having a nervous breakdown because they can't get into their paypals on here. If you consider shutting down the entire commerce of the internet "accomplishing little" then.... yeah okay. And if you consider several thousands people in a concerted effort to take down several of the biggest financial institutions on the globe to be a few idiots running around on message boards claiming to be freedom fighters, then you honestly have no idea what you're talking about and I wonder why you're even wasting your time right now.

"Weak people trying to feel strong" Isn't that the whole point of a protest? What do you want to have happen? Sit here on a #ty message board throwing glib comments at the people actually attempting to make a point and take a stand?

Originally posted by Joehio

And if you consider several thousands people in a concerted effort to take down several of the biggest financial institutions on the globe to be a few idiots running around on message boards claiming to be freedom fighters, then you honestly have no idea what you're talking about and I wonder why you're even wasting your time right now.

I don't see thousands of people here. Just a few. So the reference was not directed at Anon at large. It was directed at those who feel a need to brag.

Originally posted by Joehio

"Weak people trying to feel strong"

Isn't that the whole point of a protest? What do you want to have happen? Sit here on a #ty message board throwing glib comments at the people actually attempting to make a point and take a stand?

Pot, meet kettle.

Oh and taking a stand require a bit more than downloading an .exe file and point and clicking. That simply does not qualify as taking a stand. Try "fitting in with the other kids"... It's much more applicable.

~Heff

Originally posted by Hefficide

Originally posted by Joehio

And if you consider several thousands people in a concerted effort to take down several of the biggest financial institutions on the globe to be a few idiots running around on message boards claiming to be freedom fighters, then you honestly have no idea what you're talking about and I wonder why you're even wasting your time right now.

I don't see thousands of people here. Just a few. So the reference was not directed at Anon at large. It was directed at those who feel a need to brag.

Originally posted by Joehio

"Weak people trying to feel strong"

Isn't that the whole point of a protest? What do you want to have happen? Sit here on a #ty message board throwing glib comments at the people actually attempting to make a point and take a stand?

Pot, meet kettle.

Oh and taking a stand require a bit more than downloading an .exe file and point and clicking. That simply does not qualify as taking a stand. Try "fitting in with the other kids"... It's much more applicable.

~Heff

This just shows that you have no idea what you're talking about. Anon isn't on ATS, so why would there be more than a couple of sympathizers here? Also the whole point of Anon is to be anonymous... so again, why would you see them? And the fact that you don't understand that basic concept kind of invalidates everything else you've got to say.

And if all it takes to take down major global financial institutions is to download an .exe file, that's a bad thing? Also you have no concept of what went down or the other ops Anon pulled or "Phase 2." So you lack any sort of expertise on this subject and are just pontificating your opinion based on bad information. Also the way you're trying to shape the character of Anon again shows you have no idea what you're talking about and have been influenced by some source other than reality. It's kind of pathetic that you're trying to paint a global movement of literally thousands of all different kinds of people as disaffected socially disinclined youth.

I don't agree or disagree.

Every IP out there has ToS that prohibit using there service for DoS attacks
Plus its against the law.

Criminal actions are not free speech.

The least that may happen is there IP blackballs them the worst is they get arrested and banned from the internet.

I will not feel sorry in the least.

Actions by these few endanger the free use of the internet for the rest of us.

EDIT:

My opinion is not needed.