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Why support ANY Administration?

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posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 09:05 PM
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www.abovetopsecret.com...

That is what inspired this "counter-thread".

I honestly ask, why support any Federal Administration?

Since Roe vs. Wade and more importantly, Garcia vs. San Antonio, the Federal Government has not been Constitutional.

You think I'm joking?

Garcia vs. San Antonio literally decided that the Federal Government is not bound to respect the US Constitution and can make legislation to force States to do whatever it wants.

I will devote an entire thread to the specific issue of our loss of Freedom when I figure out exactly how I am going to write it.

Until then, will someone please try to defend the Federal Government? Why should we do anything they tell us? They don't respect the Constitution that created them.




posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by FreeMason
Since Roe vs. Wade and more importantly, Garcia vs. San Antonio, the Federal Government has not been Constitutional.


To be fair, declaring independence in the first place wasn't strictly constitutional from a British standpoint, but you know?... sometimes, you just gotta let go!


[EDIT : talking of which, Happy Independence Day you crazy people you.. You know we still love ya! ]




[edit on 3-7-2004 by muppet]



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 09:50 PM
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Muppet, are you suggesting that the Unconstitutionality of the Federal Government is justified by the fact we seceeded from Great Britain?

We seceeded from Great Britain under very specific ideals and reasons.

The fact that these ideals have been destroyed, and the reasons ignored, effectually means that our secession from Britain was in fact worthless.

However our maintainance of those ideals justifies our secession and shall keep us free.



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by FreeMason
Since Roe vs. Wade and more importantly, Garcia vs. San Antonio, the Federal Government has not been Constitutional.

Okay how is Roe Vs. Wade unconstitional? Garcia Vs. San Antonio that stated that fair labor practices had to apply to everybody? Yes, there seems to be an erosion of Freedoms since Ashcroft and his group or zealots have taken over the justice department. But that is a post 911 thing. While states rights are of no doubt important, the Federal Governments has the constitutial right and duty to protect all of its citizens



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 09:56 PM
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I would have to agree with the point you're making here Freemason. As you mentioned my other thread with the similar idea, this is certainly much more intense and of a larger scale.

When one actually takes time to read the constitution in it's original form. Take notice to the amendments and so on and so forth. It is only then that you realize how incredibly far the 'Government' as we know it today has stretched the limits which were once in place to restrict just that sort of thing.

A huge clue that something has gone horribly wrong should be that fact that even The System itself is fighting and struggling internally. Federal Rule overpowering State Law down to the smallest details is the result of Gross Neglect on behalf of The People and their complete understanding of what it means to maintain a Government which acts on behalf of the Governed. The 'Power Base' of Self Reliance has been replaced by a Top Down Obedience to Authority and for "who's benefit" doesn't seem to even be a question people bother asking anymore.

Long gone are the days when people knew their Rights as opposed to being told their Privileges. But then I suppose back then people knew what Freedom meant and what duties one had to uphold in order to keep it that way. Now if anyone has some issue, be it some personal opinion or whatever, it all comes down to stuffing the pockets of Political & Legal Policy Makers and manipulating yet another law or hidden agenda into everyone else's lives, then en-forcing it by the heavy hand of fear, prison or death.

But just try and explain the Truth behind the Grand Illusion of the Mighty OZ. I've tried it and few seem to either listen or even come close to seeing the 'Self Evident' Reality from within the circus. What is strange is I could understand why others would want to live the illusion of being a King. However, when even the slaves refuse to open their eyes and realize that their Blindness has only been their ignorance in choosing not to see, you start realizing you're talking to zombies and not men at all.



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 10:12 PM
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Muppet, are you suggesting that the Unconstitutionality of the Federal Government is justified by the fact we seceeded from Great Britain?


Not at all.

I guess I'm just making that point that America is starting to grow up. It's 221 years old (today! happy birthday!), and nations have a habit of picking up a bit of legal flotsam and jetsam over the years.

A nation isn't a contract to be argued over. It's just a whole big bunch of people who share a big chunk of land, trying to get on with their lives and, if they get the time, make a little sense of the world.

I'm saying it's time to move on. the USA is one country, and I seriously doubt many people over there fancy re-running the civil war undo that. History is history... trust me, I'm British. We're swimming in the stuff.


Give it another few hundred years and you'll feel much better about the whole thing...honestly!


[edit on 3-7-2004 by muppet]



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 10:23 PM
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If the Govt gets too outta line...the army, navy and air force will defend the constitution....civil war yeah.could happen...but I doubt it.unless some dope of a pres trys to hand over sovernty sp to the u.n....



posted on Jul, 3 2004 @ 10:34 PM
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FredT. Those two cases remove States' Rights.

Roe vs. Wade declared that States have no "right" to make laws of morality. This is wholy untrue as even James Madison pointed to the fact that the States number one purpose was to legislate moral protections as they see fit.

Garcia vs. San Antonio says that the Federal Government can make laws at any level of government, from local to treaties abroad.

FredT, the Federal Government only has the right to protect us from invasion. Nothing else. The people protect their rights through their States, that was how it was supposed to be for very good reasons.

As muppet points out, foriegners just can not understand this.

They were born into a Unitary system that has existed for thousands of years, they were never lied to, they were told to their face that they had one supreme ruler and that they could do nothing about it.

The United States was built to never be like that. But through a horrible war, it was forced into such a system.

Tad seems a bit idealistic, if that were the case the military should already be defending the Constitution, but they aren't.




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