Have These Chemtrail Formations Been Appearing In Your City Lately?

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


This is where you are misunderstanding me. I am NOT saying the planes I see with Chemtrails are "normal" or commercial planes. I AM saying that they are owned and operated by some entity within our government. Whether it be the military or some other agency. So no, I cannot provide a photograph of commercial planes flying next to each other. I will attempt to get some as I am going to purchase a camera with part of my tax return.

@tommyjo

I am not debating military drills and practice sessions. But I am confused in the sense that you are suggesting that we see these drills everyday over a lot of cities and land. What I and others are seeing is not a drill I can tell you that. Nor are they fighter jets. Those are rather small and loud and easy to identify.

reply to post by dplum517


And no wonder that you see large airliner type aircraft flying in formation? You have Salt Lake City as your location.

The 151st Air Refueling Wing is on your doorstep with their KC-135s!

www.151arw.ang.af.mil...

TJ

reply to post by tommyjo


....there's a military base in almost every state

I understand you want to explain away each and every little thing but your explanations are not logical nor do they match the observations.
I do not expect you to have seen what others see, maybe you live somewhere that's not like that. But I can assure you that this is a huge operation and once you able to see it for what it is you will wonder how you thought otherwise.
All I can say is you should look UP every single day and take note as to when the blue days are and the days you see almost no planes in the sky as opposed to seeing several planes in the sky at the same time for a good portion of the day.
To me it's quite obvious they want to manipulate the weather and climate some how. Just from keeping notes and always looking UP.

reply to post by dplum517


Then let me be more clear with my request: Could you provide a video or photograph of two "not overtly normal militray" planes flying 100s of feet apart. Do you have evidence that planes are doing this as a common practice?

reply to post by dplum517


I have to shake my head in disbelief. More continued ignorance. Remember to come back and post your images. Why not buy a video camera like Rod Hilderman and Tanker Enemy rather than a camera.? You will require a good quality lens in the region of around 500mm to obtain recognisable images of aircraft producing contrails. Quality lenses are very expensive.

In the meanwhile I will continue to look up in the skies. Do you suggest that I wear a mask or not breathe so deeply when I look up at aircraft producing contrails?

TJ

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Again, I will have to wait on that because I unfortunately am somewhat young still and have not acquired a really good camera. I also don't want to use some picture on the internet or one that was not taken by me. So maybe someday soon or so I will make my own thread with my own pics and video.
And yes, I am saying these planes flying close to each other is common place but only on a Chemtrail day.

reply to post by tommyjo


You are not helping yourself and your credibility by lumping me into a category of "tin foil" hat wearing crazies. You are stereotyping me.
I don't wear a mask because I don't know if these Chemtrails even affect me. BUT, we also don't know that they aren't. I do NOT believe there is some diabolical plan to kill everyone with Chemtrails. That is ridiculous.

Originally posted by dplum517
reply to post by firepilot

 

I say that because that's all it is.

I don't see any "science" on that website using the scientific method and providing controlled experiments and so on. All I see is a bunch of "links" and videos and anecdotal crap to help persuade.
So no, I do not need to provide an answer to your question because the site does it for me.
And I'm not replying again to you firepilot....

edit on 24-1-2011 by dplum517 because: (no reason given)

I think you just described all the "chemtrail" websites.

Seriously, what are the half truths? If contrail science is a bunch of disinfo, then please, help get the word out about the disinfo being spewed by contrail science, by refuting all the facts that you say are half truths. If you could do that, you would probably turn 99% of us "goverment agents" around, and actually believe the conspiracy.

It won't be hard at all for a person like yourself, because YOU KNOW, so all you gotta do is explain why.

Please, I didn't throw any insults at you, this is a serious post, so please don't flame me to the ground in your response as you do with most anybody who thinks differently than yourself.

reply to post by dplum517


And of course you are helping us to understand? You admit that you are young. Live a little, compile your photographic evidence and come back and start a thread. Remember that you have to produce images or video where the aircraft are recognisable?

All the best with your project.

TJ

reply to post by dplum517


Also check out Plane Plotter and the various groups monitoring aircraft as a hobby.

www.planeplotters.com...

groups.yahoo.com...

TJ

A few pages ago someone asked why it is that the chemtrail hoax gets so thoroughly jumped upon every time it raises it's stupid head.

I suspect it is probably because so many people work in aviation and know that is is utter drivel.

I myself started an apprenticeship as an aircraft mechanic in 1976. Since then I have worked for a couple of airlines, a 3rd party maintenance organisation and a national aviation authority, and taken a few years of at university.

Aviation people generally cannot afford to indulge in crap thinking....not that some don't of course, but on the technical side pilots, mechanics/engineers, controllers all have to deal with facts - if we start dealing with what we believe then people can get killed in large numbers.

so when someone comes along and tells us that we must all be part of this conspiracy to cut the world population/fight or cause global warming/help HAARP make earthquakes/whatever there is a tendency to tell them they are full of it.

Because you see it could not happen without millions of people knowing about it - one of whom would be me.

So I take the chemtrail hoax as a personal insult.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Please excuse the long cut and paste, I specifically left everything intact to make a point about how long this kind of thing has been going on and how many human experiments have occurred in the US over the decades (with the Nazified CIA having their fingers in a lot of those experiments.)

1931: Dr. Cornelius Rhoads, under the auspices of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Investigations, infects human subjects with cancer cells. He later goes on to establish the U.S. Army Biological Warfare facilities in Maryland, Utah, and Panama, and is named to the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission. While there, he begins a series of radiation exposure experiments on American soldiers and civilian hospital patients.
1932: The Tuskegee Syphilis Study begins. 200 black men diagnosed with syphilis are never told of their illness, are denied treatment, and instead are used as human guinea pigs in order to follow the progression and symptoms of the disease. They all subsequently die from syphilis, their families never told that they could have been treated.

1935: The Pellagra Incident. After millions of individuals die from Pellagra over a span of two decades, the U.S. Public Health Service finally acts to stem the disease. The director of the agency admits it had known for at least 20 years that Pellagra is caused by a niacin deficiency but failed to act since most of the deaths occured within poverty-striken black populations.

1940: Four hundred prisoners in Chicago are infected with Malaria in order to study the effects of new and experimental drugs to combat the disease. Nazi doctors later on trial at Nuremberg cite this American study to defend their own actions during the Holocaust.

1942: Chemical Warfare Services begins mustard gas experiments on approximately 4,000 servicemen. The experiments continue until 1945 and made use of Seventh Day Adventists who chose to become human guinea pigs rather than serve on active duty.

1943: In response to Japan's full-scale germ warfare program, the U.S. begins research on biological weapons at Fort Detrick, MD.

1944: U.S. Navy uses human subjects to test gas masks and clothing. Individuals were locked in a gas chamber and exposed to mustard gas and lewisite.

1945: Project Paperclip is initiated. The U.S. State Department, Army intelligence, and the CIA recruit Nazi scientists and offer them immunity and secret identities in exchange for work on top secret government projects in the United States.

1945: "Program F" is implemented by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC). This is the most extensive U.S. study of the health effects of fluoride, which was the key chemical component in atomic bomb production. One of the most toxic chemicals known to man, fluoride, it is found, causes marked adverse effects to the central nervous system but much of the information is squelched in the name of national security because of fear that lawsuits would undermine full-scale production of atomic bombs.

1946: Patients in VA hospitals are used as guinea pigs for medical experiments. In order to allay suspicions, the order is given to change the word "experiments" to "investigations" or "observations" whenever reporting a medical study performed in one of the nation's veteran's hospitals.

1947: Colonel E.E. Kirkpatrick of the U.S. Atomic Energy Comission issues a secret document (Document 07075001, January 8, 1947) stating that the agency will begin administering intravenous doses of radioactive substances to human subjects.

1947: The CIA begins its study of '___' as a potential weapon for use by American intelligence. Human subjects (both civilian and military) are used with and without their knowledge.

1950: Department of Defense begins plans to detonate nuclear weapons in desert areas and monitor downwind residents for medical problems and mortality rates.

1950: In an experiment to determine how susceptible an American city would be to biological attack, the U.S. Navy sprays a cloud of bacteria from ships over San Franciso. Monitoring devices are situated throughout the city in order to test the extent of infection. Many residents become ill with pneumonia-like symptoms.

1951: Department of Defense begins open air tests using disease-producing bacteria and viruses. Tests last through 1969 and there is concern that people in the surrounding areas have been exposed.

1953: U.S. military releases clouds of zinc cadmium sulfide gas over Winnipeg, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Fort Wayne, the Monocacy River Valley in Maryland, and Leesburg, Virginia. Their intent is to determine how efficiently they could disperse chemical agents.

1953: Joint Army-Navy-CIA experiments are conducted in which tens of thousands of people in New York and San Francisco are exposed to the airborne germs Serratia marcescens and Bacillus glogigii.

1953: CIA initiates Project MKULTRA. This is an eleven year research program designed to produce and test drugs and biological agents that would be used for mind control and behavior modification. Six of the subprojects involved testing the agents on unwitting human beings.

1955: The CIA, in an experiment to test its ability to infect human populations with biological agents, releases a bacteria withdrawn from the Army's biological warfare arsenal over Tampa Bay, Fl.

1955: Army Chemical Corps continues '___' research, studying its potential use as a chemical incapacitating agent. More than 1,000 Americans participate in the tests, which continue until 1958.

1956: U.S. military releases mosquitoes infected with Yellow Fever over Savannah, Ga and Avon Park, Fl. Following each test, Army agents posing as public health officials test victims for effects.

1958: '___' is tested on 95 volunteers at the Army's Chemical Warfare Laboratories for its effect on intelligence.

1960: The Army Assistant Chief-of-Staff for Intelligence (ACSI) authorizes field testing of '___' in Europe and the Far East. Testing of the european population is code named Project THIRD CHANCE; testing of the Asian population is code named Project DERBY HAT.

1965: Project CIA and Department of Defense begin Project MKSEARCH, a program to develop a capability to manipulate human behavior through the use of mind-altering drugs.

1965: Prisoners at the Holmesburg State Prison in Philadelphia are subjected to dioxin, the highly toxic chemical component of Agent Orange used in Viet Nam. The men are later studied for development of cancer, which indicates that Agent Orange had been a suspected carcinogen all along.

1966: CIA initiates Project MKOFTEN, a program to test the toxicological effects of certain drugs on humans and animals.

1966: U.S. Army dispenses Bacillus subtilis variant niger throughout the New York City subway system. More than a million civilians are exposed when army scientists drop lightbulbs filled with the bacteria onto ventilation grates.

1967: CIA and Department of Defense implement Project MKNAOMI, successor to MKULTRA and designed to maintain, stockpile and test biological and chemical weapons.

1968: CIA experiments with the possibility of poisoning drinking water by injecting chemicals into the water supply of the FDA in Washington, D.C.

1969: Dr. Robert MacMahan of the Department of Defense requests from congress $10 million to develop, within 5 to 10 years, a synthetic biological agent to which no natural immunity exists.

1970: Funding for the synthetic biological agent is obtained under H.R. 15090. The project, under the supervision of the CIA, is carried out by the Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick, the army's top secret biological weapons facility. Speculation is raised that molecular biology techniques are used to produce AIDS-like retroviruses.

1970: United States intensifies its development of "ethnic weapons" (Military Review, Nov., 1970), designed to selectively target and eliminate specific ethnic groups who are susceptible due to genetic differences and variations in DNA.

1975: The virus section of Fort Detrick's Center for Biological Warfare Research is renamed the Fredrick Cancer Research Facilities and placed under the supervision of the National Cancer Institute (NCI) . It is here that a special virus cancer program is initiated by the U.S. Navy, purportedly to develop cancer-causing viruses. It is also here that retrovirologists isolate a virus to which no immunity exists. It is later named HTLV (Human T-cell Leukemia Virus).

1977: Senate hearings on Health and Scientific Research confirm that 239 populated areas had been contaminated with biological agents between 1949 and 1969. Some of the areas included San Francisco, Washington, D.C., Key West, Panama City, Minneapolis, and St. Louis.

1978: Experimental Hepatitis B vaccine trials, conducted by the CDC, begin in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco. Ads for research subjects specifically ask for promiscuous homosexual men.

1981: First cases of AIDS are confirmed in homosexual men in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco, triggering speculation that AIDS may have been introduced via the Hepatitis B vaccine

1985: According to the journal Science (227:173-177), HTLV and VISNA, a fatal sheep virus, are very similar, indicating a close taxonomic and evolutionary relationship.

1986: According to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (83:4007-4011), HIV and VISNA are highly similar and share all structural elements, except for a small segment which is nearly identical to HTLV. This leads to speculation that HTLV and VISNA may have been linked to produce a new retrovirus to which no natural immunity exists.

1986: A report to Congress reveals that the U.S. Government's current generation of biological agents includes: modified viruses, naturally occurring toxins, and agents that are altered through genetic engineering to change immunological character and prevent treatment by all existing vaccines.

1987: Department of Defense admits that, despite a treaty banning research and development of biological agents, it continues to operate research facilities at 127 facilities and universities around the nation.

1990: More than 1500 six-month old black and hispanic babies in Los Angeles are given an "experimental" measles vaccine that had never been licensed for use in the United States. CDC later admits that parents were never informed that the vaccine being injected to their children was experimental.

1994: With a technique called "gene tracking," Dr. Garth Nicolson at the MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, TX discovers that many returning Desert Storm veterans are infected with an altered strain of Mycoplasma incognitus, a microbe commonly used in the production of biological weapons. Incorporated into its molecular structure is 40 percent of the HIV protein coat, indicating that it had been man-made.

1994: Senator John D. Rockefeller issues a report revealing that for at least 50 years the Department of Defense has used hundreds of thousands of military personnel in human experiments and for intentional exposure to dangerous substances. Materials included mustard and nerve gas, ionizing radiation, psychochemicals, hallucinogens, and drugs used during the Gulf War .

1995: U.S. Government admits that it had offered Japanese war criminals and scientists who had performed human medical experiments salaries and immunity from prosecution in exchange for data on biological warfare research.

1995: Dr. Garth Nicolson, uncovers evidence that the biological agents used during the Gulf War had been manufactured in Houston, TX and Boca Raton, Fl and tested on prisoners in the Texas Department of Corrections.

1996: Department of Defense admits that Desert Storm soldiers were exposed to chemical agents.

1997: Eighty-eight members of Congress sign a letter demanding an investigation into bioweapons use & Gulf War Syndrome.

These are all documented facts. Considering this, it's so hard to consider that chemtrails are real because why? Because the Government wouldn't do that to its population or because they couldn't keep it secret? Hah!

And none of that is any evidence either. Speculating on something, is not evidence that it is happening.

And no, it would not be able to keep something secret involving some mythical fleet of large aircraft. Planes do have to take off and land somewhere too, and they cant just teleport from some base to 35,000 ft either.

And also we generally know exactly what kinds of planes are based at military bases, its public information. (With the exception of places like Tonopah and Area 51. And no for you Gunderson fans, there are no chemplanes at Ft Sill, and no unmarked bomber type planes at the Lincoln public airport.

Originally posted by coyotepoet
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
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These are all documented facts. Considering this, it's so hard to consider that chemtrails are real because why? Because the Government wouldn't do that to its population or because they couldn't keep it secret? Hah!

No it is not hard to imagine it at all. Nor is anyone saying that the Govt WOULDN'T do it or COULDN'T do it.

We are all well aware that various governments have done various despicable things over the years.

And that is fair enough to show what governments are capable of.

However it is not evidence that they are doing this thing right now - by all means keep the government under surveillance, and if you do find any actual, real evidence of something happening shout forth about it.

If you do ever sample a contrail and find something in it other than what we expect from combustion of hydrocarbons then let us know.

But saying that the Govt did something bad in 1931, or 1982 or 2002, and therefore must be spraying the upper atmosphere with poison is just logical nonsense. Even showing that the Govt is conducting some other dodgy stuff right here and now in 2011 would not be evidence to support the chemtrail hoax.

there's nothing wrong with being suspicious.......but there is something with saying something is a fact when there is not a single skerrick of verifiable supporting evidence.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

But saying that the Govt did something bad in 1931, or 1982 or 2002, and therefore must be spraying the upper atmosphere with poison is just logical nonsense. Even showing that the Govt is conducting some other dodgy stuff right here and now in 2011 would not be evidence

Fair enough, and I can't argue against your statement. My intention with that was just to point out a long history of (some would consider) downright evil things being perpetrated by the government against its population. The criminal justice system uses the same kind of considerations when looking at how hard or how easy to go on a particular perpetrator.

Here's a graphic showing how much more air traffic there is "now" as opposed to "then" - it is taken from a 2004 Boeing document I recently found while clearing out some old files and sent to Contrail Science:




I'm sorry that the tabular figures are not available, but, roughly, it looks like there are about 10 times as many large jet aircraft flying in 2003 as there were in 1965, and 12-15 times as much activity. That's jets over 66,000 lb MCTOW - a 1,000%+ increase in numbers, flights and hours.

So yes there are a lot more contrails now!

and more of the flights are on jets too. The regional airlines used to be mostly turboprop aircraft that do not normally fly at contrailing altitudes. But more of the regionals fly jets like Embraer and Canadair and so more of those flights will be at contrailing altitudes, because their range, speed and efficiency are better up higher.

Originally posted by coyotepoet
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
My intention with that was just to point out a long history of (some would consider) downright evil things being perpetrated by the government against its population. The criminal justice system uses the same kind of considerations when looking at how hard or how easy to go on a particular perpetrator.

Sure - AFTER conviction on actual evidence......well usually on actual evidence.......